Tanks should have all their AP/AD scaling removed

z63XnLCMwX·Apr 7, 2019·3 votes·1,492 views

And replaced with resistance scaling. It makes more sense that way. They should be rewarded for building resistance instead of AP/AD. It also makes balancing tanks easier.

14 Comments

LovelleApr 7, 20193 votes

The problem with this is that high resistance builds are probably the weakest they've been since S3. At least having AD/AP lets them opt for more damage so they're not completely useless.

RagnaveilApr 7, 20194 votes

I mean, you could just replace the ratios with health ratios. Isn't building health the one thing Tanks have over everyone? Im a former tank main, and honestly this idea for some tanks could help kill some unhealthy and unethical playstyles (AP Cho just rotation killing someone, AP malph ulting someone and destroying them (Its nasty). You get the point. OP's idea is right, but wrong on what should replace those scalings.)

z63XnLCMwXApr 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I mean, you could just replace the ratios with health ratios. Isn't building health the one thing Tanks have over everyone? Im a former tank main, and honestly this idea for some tanks could help kill some unhealthy and unethical playstyles (AP Cho just rotation killing someone, AP malph ulting someone and destroying them (Its nasty). You get the point. OP's idea is right, but wrong on what should replace those scalings.)

This. Or AD sion. Let tanks be what they're supposed to be, hard to kill champs instead of rewarding them for building damage.

RagnaveilApr 7, 20191 votes

You can edit your post and change the resist stuff to health. I'd also edit the title to replaced, not removed. Its a tad bit misleading.

LovelleApr 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I mean, you could just replace the ratios with health ratios. Isn't building health the one thing Tanks have over everyone? Im a former tank main, and honestly this idea for some tanks could help kill some unhealthy and unethical playstyles (AP Cho just rotation killing someone, AP malph ulting someone and destroying them (Its nasty). You get the point. OP's idea is right, but wrong on what should replace those scalings.)

Tanks and juggernauts have the best health scaling, yes. Also, I've seen far more people complain about tank cho killing people over his AP version, ever since they added a health ratio to his ult.

AP Malph is stupid to play against early, but he falls off hard. I just played against an AP Malph a couple games ago. He's only good for killing squishies and cheesing tankier opponents early on before they can get MR. After he blows his cooldowns he's an easy kill. Tank Malph lives slightly longer, but does a lot less damage.

The bigger problem is how much damage outscales defense. These champions wouldn't be stacking damage if defensive scaling was actually good. Removing their AP/AD would just make them even harder to play right now.

Rammus gets damage for building armor and even he gets shredded past a certain point.

RagnaveilApr 7, 20191 votes

Sure, but the reason why Cho can is his E stacking % max health magic damage per feast stack, and it does the damage up to 3 times.

And yes, the issue is how much damage outscales defense, but if we had the reverse, malph would split tank and AP and still one shot people, but also live longer. I'm just trying to avoid situations like that, which is why I said changing it for certain champions, not all.

LovelleApr 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Sure, but the reason why Cho can is his E stacking % max health magic damage per feast stack, and it does the damage up to 3 times.

And yes, the issue is how much damage outscales defense, but if we had the reverse, malph would split tank and AP and still one shot people, but also live longer. I'm just trying to avoid situations like that, which is why I said changing it for certain champions, not all.

Malph didn't used to one shot in S2 or S5, back when defensive scaling and itemization were actually good. Not unless he was massively fed and the adc didn't have any defense built. Back then adcs couldn't go glass cannon, they were expected to build at least one defensive item. I wish we could go back to everyone actually having balanced builds.

ParoeApr 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Tanks and juggernauts have the best health scaling, yes. Also, I've seen far more people complain about tank cho killing people over his AP version, ever since they added a health ratio to his ult.

To be fair, cho'gath is a 'specialist' type champion, so hes a hodgepodge leaning in the bruiser/juggernaut direction. Much like sion, cho'gath is not a true tank.

LovelleApr 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, cho'gath is a 'specialist' type champion, so hes a hodgepodge leaning in the bruiser/juggernaut direction. Much like sion, cho'gath is not a true tank.

I'm aware Cho isn't, but how is Sion not a true tank?

ParoeApr 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I'm aware Cho isn't, but how is Sion not a true tank?

High AD scaling on most of his abilities makes him a tanky champion. Tanks itemization focuses on HP+resistances. Bruisers and juggernauts have a focus on AD+HP itemization (which is often better than tank itemization in terms of raw HP and gold effectiveness). Sion, being a proto-juggernaut, leans towards that AD+HP itemization in his basic kit.

Because anyone with CC can build 'tank' and still be effective. 'true tank' refers to champions with HP and resistance scaling as their main form of scaling.

LovelleApr 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

High AD scaling on most of his abilities makes him a tanky champion. Tanks itemization focuses on HP+resistances. Bruisers and juggernauts have a focus on AD+HP itemization (which is often better than tank itemization in terms of raw HP and gold effectiveness). Sion, being a proto-juggernaut, leans towards that AD+HP itemization in his basic kit.

Because anyone with CC can build 'tank' and still be effective. 'true tank' refers to champions with HP and resistance scaling as their main form of scaling.

Sion doesn't need any AD in his build to do his job. IMO a tank is defined by their ability to initiate fights, peel and mitigate damage, and there are few champions in this game that can brute force fights the way Sion can.

ParoeApr 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Sion doesn't need any AD in his build to do his job. IMO a tank is defined by their ability to initiate fights, peel and mitigate damage, and there are few champions in this game that can brute force fights the way Sion can.

Youd be wrong. In this iteration of riot dudebro arena "tanks" are weak scaling champions with reliable CC, low mobility, and average base stats. Bruisers are strong scaling champions with hard CC, mobility, sustain, and good base stats. Juggernauts are similar without mobility; The reason why Sion is a proto juggernaut like Mundo, Volibear, and Trundle is because they arent traditionally mobile. They have MS boosts yes, but not dashes or flashes like renekton does.

Because sion HAS strong AD scaling, he is in the bruiser vein of the fighter family instead of the tank vein. Similar to Gnar, who is a bruiser but is almost always played like a tank due to his high base stats and high scaling. Meanwhile Braum, Leona, Nautilus, Thresh, Rammus, Orrn, and malphite have HP or resistance scaling +AP, which makes them 'true tanks' when coupled with their tank explicit traits; Low mobility, reliable CC, average base stats, poor scaling.

If all the tanks listed above had their AP ratios exchanged for AD ratios, they would ALL be capable users of bruiser itemization.

LovelleApr 9, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Youd be wrong. In this iteration of riot dudebro arena "tanks" are weak scaling champions with reliable CC, low mobility, and average base stats. Bruisers are strong scaling champions with hard CC, mobility, sustain, and good base stats. Juggernauts are similar without mobility; The reason why Sion is a proto juggernaut like Mundo, Volibear, and Trundle is because they arent traditionally mobile. They have MS boosts yes, but not dashes or flashes like renekton does.

Because sion HAS strong AD scaling, he is in the bruiser vein of the fighter family instead of the tank vein. Similar to Gnar, who is a bruiser but is almost always played like a tank due to his high base stats and high scaling. Meanwhile Braum, Leona, Nautilus, Thresh, Rammus, Orrn, and malphite have HP or resistance scaling +AP, which makes them 'true tanks' when coupled with their tank explicit traits; Low mobility, reliable CC, average base stats, poor scaling.

If all the tanks listed above had their AP ratios exchanged for AD ratios, they would ALL be capable users of bruiser itemization.

Sion either goes full damage or full tank. Trying to go in between with him and he just ends up failing at both. His only bonus AD ratio is on his ult, so in order for his Q to keep hurting past the mid-game he has to keep investing in damage. His Q does have potentially high damage, but only if he gets the full Q off. You gotta be a god with him to run that playstyle against all these mages and Vaynes/Rivens/Yasuos in every game.