Why is Vayne allowed to be meta when Tanks aren't meta?

z63XnLCMwX·3/21/2019, 3:39:34 PM·96 votes·20,522 views

Her buffs pushed her over the top to become an S tier ADC with little to no healthy counterplay after she hits 11. Can we make vayne less of a stat check champion and back into a skill based champ? She has 25.88% ban rate with a 24.22% pick rate while sitting at a healthy 52.55% winrate in plat+. How is that supposed to be healthy?

119 Comments

Critmaster Garen3/21/2019, 4:25:53 PM45 votes

she has 56% winrate at master tier+ and 30% pick rate.

absolutely no one should be fine with vayne in the state she currently is.

however this also presents an opportunity. they can finally add counterplay to her w as a form of a nerf and make her gameplay healthier at the same time.

add a specific win condition that vayne has to fulfill to access her true damage, or turn it into a short windowed active to give her a window of weakness where you can fight her.

they need to change something about her kit that a fight with her isnt decided before you would engage her.

champions like volibear, udyr and garen should be able to approach her in a 1v1 on even terms and have a chance to outplay her in a fight, instead of automatically losing just because her e exists.

i propose:

a) make the knockback on her e only trigger when the wall stun would connect, similar to how Bard stun works. otherwise make the ability enirely ineffective so she doesnt have a free direct target disengage, but is actually reliant on hitting the thing from the correct angle

b) add a counterplay mechanic to her w. something like "silver bolts gets disabled for 4 seconds, when she takes damage from a champion in melee range". (just an example).

just some form of weakness to the ability, just like Fiora vitals have a realistic potential to be denied by juking her q and general proper positioning.

Rebonack3/21/2019, 4:22:20 PM26 votes

I forget which Rioter said it, but it was mentioned years ago that when Vayne sneaks above a 50% win-rate it is usually a sign that she's over tuned.

Basically: She's a very niche champion (tank-busting front-line destroyer) that happens to be VERY popular. That means she's often picked into team compositions she's not suited against, which drives her win-rate down. If she's too powerful as a flex pick rather than a counter, she invalidates Tanks. And that's bad.

SgtAwesomeness3/21/2019, 8:49:20 PM24 votes

$he ha$n't $old enough $kins yet.

Kanzler3/21/2019, 5:43:15 PM7 votes

Honestly, i like vayne and thought the tumble CD reduction on the ult was unnecessary. Perhaps everyone would stop whining if they reverted that?

Lovelle3/21/2019, 6:23:57 PM7 votes

For the same reason Riot nerfs Trundle whenever tanks are strong, biased balancing decisions. The main difference is that Vayne gets to kill everyone, while the former is only good at killing tanky targets.

Velasan3/22/2019, 5:30:40 AM6 votes

Because Riot has made it clear they are OK with pushing things into the meta rather than let a meta form by people playing the game on their own.

During worlds they buffed Lee Sin Q and literally just said, yeah we're buffing Lee Sin Q because he's not meta and we want to see him at worlds.

New runes also do not equally provide for all champions. Some champions have all the runes they want, others are lacking. The rune system still needs a lot of fine tuning and some new additions. Particularly because the old system let you get so many bits and pieces of different stats into one set of pages (runes and masteries combined) that the new system doesn't provide. In the new system for example you literally can't get certain things together because it's not offered that way. If you can only take two trees you're always missing out on something.

Try it for yourself sometime. Take a couple of old pages you used to use for your champions. Write down everything those pages provided. Now compare it against the new system. You'll see there are either no equivalents to some of the old versions or they can't be used together because all the things you would want are on up to three different trees and you're only allowed to take two.

Moody P3/21/2019, 4:19:43 PM6 votes

Because vayne isn't a tank meta champion

Bârd3/21/2019, 10:30:12 PM3 votes

Vayne is a tank buster second and a duelist first.

Even if tanks are bad, Vayne still has a purpose so long as she can effectively 1v1 people, and that function is useful.

ApathyAndGrief3/21/2019, 10:36:58 PM3 votes

Season 7 was so fun when you dealt no damage and teamfights consisted of tedious "Whoever has the most tanks wins"

There's a reason Tank players don't get sympathized with most of the time.

Swarmer3/22/2019, 10:36:53 AM2 votes

tanks arent meta ? For past 2 years tanks with full tank build are 1shotting adcs and mages. You are 12-0 adc, but a tank from top or jungle with his 0-5 will come when hes gotten his 2 items finished and do 1Q or whatever and deal 2k damage to you. While you keep hitting him and kiting him dealing 0 damage.

HateDaddy3/21/2019, 8:00:43 PM1 votes

I don’t think she’s “allowed,” she’s just currently over-stat’d