I do not agree with the undocumented changes to invulnerability that went through on patch 6.20

gubigubi·Oct 13, 2016·19 votes·4,768 views

As of 6.20 on hit effects do not work on targets who are invulnerable. This change was not documented in the patch notes.

Here is a video of what it looks like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO7Rl5CfcC0&feature=youtu.be

As you can see I'm hitting my vital spot on vayne but it isn't popping. This limits my options severely against champions with invulnerability spells such as Kindred and Kayle. I can really only choose to run away and I can't even do that because I would need to pop the vital for the speed boost to escape. This is very frustrating and I really don't like this mechanic.

I believe this is similar to a video cowsep posted a few days ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=970Il9rrPZA

34 Comments

RiotMeddlerOct 13, 201610 votes

Before patch 6.18 some invulnerability effects (e.g. Taric ult) negated non damaging effects attached to auto attacks, like Yi's Q CD reduction. Others negated the damage, but allowed the other effects to occur (e.g. Kayle ult). When building the new invulnerability UI we realized we had those sort of discrepancies going on. For the purposes of the UI, and to improve clarity of game rules overall, we decided we should unify how those effects work. That means Kayle and Kindred ults are now properly set up as invulnerability states, and as a result are negating things they didn't previously.

Having said that, while we want cross champion consistency on what invulnerability nullifies longer term we actually don't want invulnerability to affect non damaging effects on anyone. That means changing it so invulnerablity, on all champions, negates damage but doesn't block associated CC, non damaging debuffs, positive effects for the caster (e.g. Fiora's speed off vitals) etc. Invulnerability's already a really powerful effect, so it shouldn't be removing other sources of counterplay against itself (CC, engage/disengage, preparation for when the immunity wears off etc).

Apologies for the lack of explanation in the patch notes, that's something we should have got some more explanation in for. Not certain at present when we'll make the swap to no invulnerabilities affecting non damage stuff (pre-season and Worlds are taking most of our time right now on the gameplay side of things) it's very much the plan though. Finally, in case anyone's uncertain, this isn't a change that would have any effect in cases where a target's untargetable as well as invulnerable (Zhonya's, Bard ult, Lissandra ult etc).

RiotMeddlerOct 13, 20168 votes

Slight update: We'll hopefully be able to get that change in during, or just after the pre-season. Turns out someone has already started looking at it.

Wolftastic33Oct 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Slight update: We'll hopefully be able to get that change in during, or just after the pre-season. Turns out someone has already started looking at it.

Question, can you please confirm Lux and Ezreal are dating?

DeathBurstOct 13, 20161 votes

Hum, I assume your current post over-ride and replace the recent answer in the "Report a Bug" sub-board that Braum not applying his passive stacks on Kayle ult was Wroking as Intended?

RiotMeddlerOct 13, 20164 votes

That's correct. Whoever made that post was right in that, for a temporary time, that's expected functionality. We've only just started sorting out when to swap invulnerability over as a whole to purely blocking damage, so I'd imagine they just didn't have the context that was a planned change underway.

BhagswagOct 14, 20161 votes

Can you also apply this nerf to Ezreal and Olaf then?

Olaf's E reduces cooldown by autos. Ezreal's Q reduces his other cooldowns.

KetiOct 13, 20161 votes

This is a pain in the butt for kindred as well. Since this patch I can't stack autos for my E as kindred on my own ult. A pretty big deal since kindred E burst is often decisive burst post kindred ult.

TomiMan7Jul 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Before patch 6.18 some invulnerability effects (e.g. Taric ult) negated non damaging effects attached to auto attacks, like Yi's Q CD reduction. Others negated the damage, but allowed the other effects to occur (e.g. Kayle ult). When building the new invulnerability UI we realized we had those sort of discrepancies going on. For the purposes of the UI, and to improve clarity of game rules overall, we decided we should unify how those effects work. That means Kayle and Kindred ults are now properly set up as invulnerability states, and as a result are negating things they didn't previously.

Having said that, while we want cross champion consistency on what invulnerability nullifies longer term we actually don't want invulnerability to affect non damaging effects on anyone. That means changing it so invulnerablity, on all champions, negates damage but doesn't block associated CC, non damaging debuffs, positive effects for the caster (e.g. Fiora's speed off vitals) etc. Invulnerability's already a really powerful effect, so it shouldn't be removing other sources of counterplay against itself (CC, engage/disengage, preparation for when the immunity wears off etc).

Apologies for the lack of explanation in the patch notes, that's something we should have got some more explanation in for. Not certain at present when we'll make the swap to no invulnerabilities affecting non damage stuff (pre-season and Worlds are taking most of our time right now on the gameplay side of things) it's very much the plan though. Finally, in case anyone's uncertain, this isn't a change that would have any effect in cases where a target's untargetable as well as invulnerable (Zhonya's, Bard ult, Lissandra ult etc).

Hey, so if you want to allow CCing some1 while they are inv, why does tarics ulti blocks blaze altogether? Without that brand cant stun anyone.

hsumis1oveOct 13, 20164 votes

how many times do they have to nerf yi??? It's like they are trying to make yi viable only for the yi mains.

gubigubiOct 13, 20163 votes

Its not even only yi. This change removes counter play options which feels bad to play against. The only option against kayle now if you can't hard CC her is to stand still and wait for her invulnerability to go away. Because you cant fight her she takes 0 damage. You can't work with any on hit passives you have to slow her, build stacks, speed yourself up. You can't run because she will just cast her slow. And with champions like kindred its just as frustrating because that kindred was on my team and she casted her ult keeping vayne alive which ended up getting me killed when normally it would not have.

SwiftKitten88Oct 13, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=B34STLY G4M3R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHMlW7P1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-13T03:56:54.064+0000)

how many times do they have to nerf yi??? It's like they are trying to make yi viable only for the yi mains.

LOL, oh noes.. you have bit hit with 2 nerfs this season..

meanwhile both my junglers Nidalee and RekSai

have been gutted,

Nidalee is still really strong at higher elos, and i am good enough with her to stay viable even with a 48% win rate in my elo, but is gett MORE nerfs on pbe RekSai has been gutted for EVERY elo, and even with lvl 6 mastery on her, she is just so bad right now i cant play her.

but yeah... " MasterYi got too mnay nerfs"
RIGHT.... XD

MatezoideOct 13, 20161 votes

Meanwhile Nidalee and Rek'Sai are still stable picks in competitive.

Lul

Golden Tager XOct 13, 20161 votes

Yi has had his itemization gutted, (no thanks to this motherfucker KogMaw ) and is much weaker simply due to that. Meanwhile, Nidalee got itemization buffs at the MYMU and that helps alot with the nerfs she has received.

ThaurronOct 13, 20161 votes

The rek'sai nerfs suck but nid has been crazy pretty much all season - and still is.

Yi has been in an odd position with item changes and his q has been inconsistent for a while now in terms of invuln windows.

SwiftKitten88Oct 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The rek'sai nerfs suck but nid has been crazy pretty much all season - and still is.

Yi has been in an odd position with item changes and his q has been inconsistent for a while now in terms of invuln windows.

since we agree about RekSai , there is no point debating that

as for my main Nidalee .

yes nid has been pretty crazy all season, that being said. she isnt an issue in lower elos at all ,a and while she certainly can use a nerf in higher elo. and i dont have an issue with that, i just want to make sure that w/e nerf DOEs hit her 54% diamond + winrate donsn't also hurt her 46% lower elo winrate.

but when i my the post i was really talking about how the guy was saying

[{quoted}](name=B34STLY G4M3R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHMlW7P1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-13T03:56:54.064+0000)

how many times do they have to nerf yi??? It's like they are trying to make yi viable only for the yi mains.

and in all honestly they HAVEN'T been nerfing MasterYi . infact they for the most part have BUFFED him

with barely any nerf to him at all and even the ones he got are VERY minor. and even both bringing up item 3124 .. that was broken as hell...

and the fact that the only reason i can even PLAY nidalee viably in my elo where she has a 47% win rate. is that fact that i freaking main her and my skill on her in particular is actually above that of my actual elo.

which again is exactly what he said. about yi.

becuase right now.. unless you ARE plat +.. nid is ALREADY only viable for nidalee mains.

SlashStrikerOct 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=B34STLY G4M3R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHMlW7P1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-13T03:56:54.064+0000)

how many times do they have to nerf yi??? It's like they are trying to make yi viable only for the yi mains.

This nerf was not oriented for newbies. It was oriented for Mains. Newcomers don't even know that

The nerf reduced the Master Yi's Mastery Ceiling so now Mains can get fk themselfs easily

hsumis1oveOct 13, 20161 votes

still tho. They nerfed his e and his ult. His e used to allow him to get pretty tanky as it would scale off of base ad. The tank build felt more noob friendly as they wouldn't get punished as much for bad engages. The devourer and rageblade changes hurt a lot too. I guess it was a little op (I used to be able to troll around with lvl 2 twr dives, then build devourer plus rageblade and 1v5), but still it felt like overkill especially with the ult nerfs. The ult nerfs encourage a more clean up, full crit playstyle, which often requires really good q and w timing which only pro yi players can do, so how is this oriented for mains?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCVXbFh-Kr4

watch the first minute of this video to watch the number 1 master yi 1v5 penta baronsteal against gosu.

SchàdenfreudeOct 13, 20163 votes

I do not agree with not agreeing with you not agreeing to these undocumented changes to invulnerability.

gubigubiOct 13, 20161 votes

So you're on board with me then.

MordepoolOct 13, 20163 votes

Indirect Nerf to fiora feels good man

Undocumented nerfs are the forecast to bigger changes. Preseason is just around the corner

ThaurronOct 13, 20162 votes

Undocumented changes are either pushed through by accident or someone forgets to put them in the changelog.

It doesn't make any sense for Riot to sneak in nerfs - especially since players will find them anyways,

DunkinNoobsOct 13, 20161 votes

This pretty much cripples Aatrox against champs with invulnerability since he can no longer heal off them while they're invulnerable.

AdriqnoheeOct 13, 20163 votes

Lets be real here, he is already crippled, at most is a kick to the broken legs, and he is not even feeling those anymore.

DunkinNoobsOct 13, 20161 votes

I do alright. You underestimate him, just like my opponents do. By the the time they realize I'm not a joke, it's already too late.

Auz the RipperOct 14, 20161 votes

then they remember mortal reminder is a thing

DunkinNoobsOct 14, 20161 votes

And then I just kill them anyway because they went mortal reminder instead of an item with real stats.

Project MOBASIMOct 13, 20161 votes

yi basic attack does not work against invulnerability because if champ x is invulnerable then how the fk can yi get a basic attack proc? it does not make sense, logic makes sense

DarkRitualOct 13, 20161 votes

If an attack hits, but deals no damage, it still hits.

SlashStrikerOct 13, 20161 votes

Rito don't like Yi cause the last nerf does not make any sense

Yi got 48% win rate and get nerfs Riven has 50% win rate and get buffs

JefftiffyOct 13, 20161 votes

I found out that this change effects Fiora's parry as well. Her parry now parry's all effects even those that normally would just stick to her and do 0 damage. Fucking spagetti code. Jesus Christ Riot. You are supposed to test these things. And I suppose we are just going to ignore that Fiora's kit is essentially like old Poppy. It is cancer to fight against if it is ever good so you might as well just leave it in the dumpster like you did with her for all those years.

What is the PBE even for then. This literally is something that changes core gameplay mechanics. And it was 100% undocumented. You seriously dropped the ball on this one. Even if it is supposed to be truly invulnerable. You shouldn't be immune to being marked, hit, had on hits proc, etc. That isn't fair to anyone. Everything should still proc just doing 0 damage. It isn't god mode. It's fucking invulnerable - immune to damage.

gubigubiOct 13, 20161 votes

Her parry already parried all effects. It makes her spell immune during the duration of riposte. Nothing in the game can touch her during its animation.

JefftiffyOct 13, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Her parry already parried all effects. It makes her spell immune during the duration of riposte. Nothing in the game can touch her during its animation.

But she could still be marked and more. If Lee landed Q it didn't just eat the mark before. Now it does.

gubigubiOct 13, 20161 votes

Oh okay. Yeah its the same with spooky ghosts I believe. Even if you riposte the slow they still get vision of you.