Why can't we see who is Queued together?

gubigubi·Jun 24, 2016·150 votes·8,509 views

There really needs to be an indicator of who is actually Queued together in a game. Part of the reason I don't like dynamicQ is because I have no idea if I'm up against a premade or not. If I could see that I'm not losing every ranked game because of premades then I would feel much better about the system. The only indicator right now is the clan tag if they happen to be in the same clan. Which isn't always the case and doesn't give a good indication if you are against a premade or not.

So please either let 3rd party websites show premades again or put it in the actual client in the score board that shows who is queued together. And at very least do this for ranked.

63 Comments

EedatJun 24, 201638 votes

To play devils advocate, the argument on the flip side of yours goes something along the lines of enemy premades being able to target solo players on your team.

Personally I think its being done intentionally by Riot so we dont see how shafted we get by DQ

gubigubiJun 24, 201612 votes

It was a feature that many third party sights had that was removed around 2014 which was almost 2 full years before DynamicQ. I think it was originally taken down to reduce toxicity towards premades but I feel that for ranked at very least showing who is premade is a fair solution.

I almost always Q solo in ranked, I just want to be able to see If I'm losing to a premade or not. It will put my mind at ease that its my actual game play and not getting beat by premades every time I get out rotated or camped. Because right now everytime an enemy team is working well together and winning through good team work I always think "wow they are probably premade". If I could see they weren't I would feel a lot better about ranked. And every now and then they will be premade but if Riots numbers on the graphs are correct it should be fairly rare to see a 4-5 man premade as a soloQed player. I just would really love to know for sure if its a premade or not.

DrCyanideJun 24, 20161 votes

For what it's worth, you're likely imagining premades in instances where there aren't any.

I duo with my wife all the time, and last year we had people all the time think that one of us was duoing with someone else on the team because of how well we'd work with that person on the fly. It's reasonable to assume the same thing happens this season, where a duo works really well with one more player, or two duos work really well together.

OmphalomSep 20, 20191 votes

I always think my teammates are premade when the jungle only ganks one lane or the support just keeps leaving and going to top lane etc. The reason they got rid of monitoring because they can't get rid of premades so they don't want you to know they are the reason you have an Iron level champion in a gold level game. The only toxicity for premades is when they are doing something inappropriate like only ganking mid lane or only ganking top lane and feeding while the enemy jungle is helping all of the lanes.

DrCabesJun 24, 201615 votes

Solos gain more from the info than premades. If you as a solo are laning against a member of a premade they were going to gain up on you anyway. Knowing is far better than not knowing.

TragicTricksJun 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

To play devils advocate, the argument on the flip side of yours goes something along the lines of enemy premades being able to target solo players on your team.

Personally I think its being done intentionally by Riot so we dont see how shafted we get by DQ

Thats very true point. Many premades on my team only help each other out and leave the solo players in the dust

Garfields HungryJun 24, 20162 votes

False at least with the people i que with. we normally duo or trio que and try and get mid jungle and ad and we will camp our solo que top laner. il keep our sup in check because we all know we cam hold our own in lane that its worked most of the time we have about 90% win rate doing that with the 3 of us and thats with about 30 games played in plat . Even if our top laner sucks it doesn't really matter because theirs is so weak and we just farm and play safe untill we go for objectives

TheRealBazJun 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

To play devils advocate, the argument on the flip side of yours goes something along the lines of enemy premades being able to target solo players on your team.

Personally I think its being done intentionally by Riot so we dont see how shafted we get by DQ

also to play devils advocate from the premade's side, if everyone always knew who is premade they would be setting themselves up for abuse. everytime someone makes a mistake their automatically 'boosted'

SwiftKitten88Jun 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

To play devils advocate, the argument on the flip side of yours goes something along the lines of enemy premades being able to target solo players on your team.

Personally I think its being done intentionally by Riot so we dont see how shafted we get by DQ

honestly.. that happens anyways... it's not like its hard to tell which players are working together and which players are being ignored

OmphalomSep 20, 20191 votes

When you could see premades you knew when they where a problem and often times people would call them out if a premade partner would start defending someone that was being toxic. Banning these sites from showing that just allows toxic players to have help being toxic.

Mandang0Jun 24, 201619 votes

I know people are going to bring up demoralization or something similar as a reason, but honestly if Riot cares about providing a competitive environment in dynamic queue, we should get a heads up to whether we're gonna get 4-manned bot constantly or not.

gubigubiJun 24, 201619 votes

Really you have to ask whats better.

Being demoralized every time you see you're against a 4-5 man premade.

Every single game wonder if the reason you are losing is because the enemy team is a premade.

I'd rather know what I'm up against and be demoralized in the rare times its a 4-5 man premade. Rather than be thinking about it every single game.

the Anarchit3chtJun 24, 20164 votes

Personally, I don't see how its demoralizing. Yeah it'd be lame, but at least with that knowledge I could plan accordingly and react in a necessary way.

Mandang0Jun 24, 20164 votes

Yea i think it's a flimsy argument too. Maybe if Riot doesn't want players angry that they're placed into lopsided matches, but then they should prevent the lopsided matches in the first place, not just the players' awareness of it.

YCitizenSnipsYJun 25, 20161 votes

Well that argument is the exact reason you can no longer see the enemies rank. If they wont change that back I don't think they will make a change for DQ.

MonkeyMadnessJun 24, 201612 votes

Because Riot knows that if they declare in game who's in premade, they will get flamed like the boosted animals that they are. Half the decisions Riot makes lately are to protect DQ from the known issues, instead of actually addressing those issues.

The DeckownerJun 24, 20169 votes

if Rito care about fairness and competetiveness, they wouldn't make DQ at the first place.

KnKitsuneJun 24, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OWHB45ty,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-06-24T05:22:15.901+0000)

if Rito care about fairness and competetiveness, they wouldn't make DQ at the first place.

Last I remembered, Riot cares more about faster queue times over fairness.

IqqiJun 24, 20165 votes

At one time we used to be able to. Riot changed their API rules for 3rd party websites before season 6 to forbid these sites for displaying people who queued as a group.

The only reason why Riot would do this is because they knew DQ was coming and that there would be backlash from players angry that their matches were not fair. (example 3 man premade vs. 4 man premade etc. etc.)

So Riot's solution to try to reduce this was to make it as difficult as possible to identify people who grouped together.

TrídentJun 24, 20164 votes

op.gg can tell you premades, unless they are queuing up for the first time together

XolotylJun 24, 20164 votes

Maybe don't focus on stupid things like that? If you're really a good player that deserves to rank up it won't matter. Blaming your losing on premades on the other team is like those kids that blame all their teammates every game when they themselves go 2-10-0.

Obungo Jun 24, 20163 votes

If they all don't have a clan tag, its more likely than not that they just met in a solo game and are playing with each other because they think they are good. (so no voice communication or anything)

From my experience this pretty much means they are playing solo, because if you premade but dont use any comm then its pretty much solo.

gubigubiJun 24, 20161 votes

Not true. None of my high rank friends that I Q with are in the same clan as me. The same people that I got to diamond in 3s with are not in a clan with me.

Nameless VoiceJun 24, 20162 votes

I'd like to see this actually supported in the game itself.

As an aside, it's relatively easy (!) to work this out if you have access to the Riot API.

Look at your current game, fetch all of the players, look at their match history, and see which ones have played with which others before. That's not 100% reliable, of course, since it only looks at their last ~20 games, but works well enough for me.

The problem I have is that it takes about 14 API requests, and you're limited to 10 requests every 10 seconds with a developer API key - which means that a program takes over 10 seconds to make all the required calls and come up with a result. Enough for one person to use on their own, but not enough to make publicly available. Considering that Riot asked all the third-party sites to stop showing premadeness a while back, I somehow doubt I'd be granted a production API key for such an application.

I suppose I could throw together a standalone app which asks people to insert their own developer API key.

Solari FortuneJun 24, 20162 votes

I feel it might cause more issues than it will fix a solo might find out he is with a 4 man premade and then decide he gonna feed because of it being a 4 man premade Also if you find out you fighting a group it can cause a little bit of demoralization

DrCabesJun 24, 20164 votes

It may cause demoralization because well, it probably should. That's not much of an excuse to hide the advantage you have to play against.

FastAsHeckJun 24, 20162 votes

The only indicator right now is the clan tag if they happen to be in the same clan. Which isn't always the case and doesn't give a good indication if you are against a premade or not.

you can even disable the clan tag altogether. You can never be sure about premades.

SilverthaneJun 24, 20162 votes

Because it probably causes "TAWWWWXIKKK" behavior and stuff. Like remember when lolnexus used to show who was duo or premade but then riot made them remove it?

ZhireJun 24, 20162 votes

Good points you've made, Also, a indicator will tell us which opponent will have the best teamwork so we can play accordingly. Let's say enemy jungle is duo with enemy top. Now our top lane will know to be more careful since they can gank top with better communication.

Zannah ZoranderJun 24, 20164 votes

I don't understand it when people use this logic. You should always be playing assuming that you are going to get ganked. Watch the map for the jungler and don't overextend until you know where they are. Teach yourself good habits and it won't matter if they are a premade.

My Waifu VanillaJun 25, 20161 votes

Ding ding ding. This right here. You should always play your best regardless of whatever "useless" information 3rd party sites can give. I will not make any judgments until I see how people actually play. I will play safe against a 1 game Riven or a 200 game Riven until one of them has PROVEN to be bad and I can be aggressive. Looking at this information either unnecessarily demoralizes people (you should play at your best regardless so seeing something and getting tilted by it has net you no advantage) or puts you in a false sense of security (OMFG zero games on Riven must be trash and then you get bodied because you assumed they were bad and are on a smurf or just have 500 normals and no ranked games on Riven).

Only using Riven as an example because she is usually a go to for time spent=rewarding game play example.

NegusInParisJun 24, 20162 votes

I think knowing if your enemy laner and jungler are premades could be really useful and prepare you for a babysit.

My Waifu VanillaJun 25, 20162 votes

Or you can play safe and ward anyway?

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 24, 20161 votes

what would you do if you knew?

Baek Ma RiJun 24, 20163 votes

i'd dodge the queue

MirkhailJun 24, 20162 votes

and that's why riot will never do it

Bar0nSlayerJun 24, 20161 votes

everyone wound camp the non-premade guy because the premades usually gank eachother and ignore the non-premade since they have better communication and are able to help each other out a lot faster. This leaves the soloqer behind, feeding since their team isnt helping and getting flamed since the 4 man queue wont say its the junglers fault. The only way i could see it showing you without giving someone an "advantage" is to show it at the end screen. item 3751

LenaroJun 24, 20163 votes

{quoted}

everyone wound camp the non-premade guy because the premades usually gank eachother and ignore the non-premade since they have better communication and are able to help each other out a lot faster. This leaves the soloqer behind, feeding since their team isnt helping and getting flamed since the 4 man queue wont say its the junglers fault. The only way i could see it showing you without giving someone an "advantage" is to show it at the end screen.

This already often happens. If a 4 man premade wants to they can figure out who the solo player is before the match starts. Each of them can look up a player's history and they have enough time to figure it out quite quickly. Beyond that you can often tell based on tag. All that not knowing prevents is an even playing ground for the solo player.

A better example is actually duo/trio promenades; solo players aren't aware as to whether or not there are premades in the game - whereas the premades on each team know that bit of knowledge. The premades know to play more safely, know that counter ganking is more likely to occur and lanes are more likely to be camped when a lead is established. The solo player, on the other hand, has none of this information and walks into the match completely blind. Until they get camped nonstop for 10 minutes by a clear premade, which they might have been able to avoid and coordinate with their team if they had known from the get go.

SociopathFriendJun 25, 20161 votes

Difference being that one of those is active effort (Searching via internet) while the other is hand-served on a platter (shown right in client).

JRobin31Jun 24, 20161 votes

I've read the comments made and it seems clear that:

Players can decipher who is premade most of the time anyways by viewing match histories.

Hence, a ban on the displaying of who is premade and who is not is mostly ineffectual (regardless of arguments against displaying information on premades).

Therefore, it appears to make sense that this information should simply be made available.

MVDuneCatsJun 24, 20162 votes

I disagree with the conclusion. There can be value to making some information harder to find.

If someone goes through the work after a game to find out what premades that they were up against, they are likely upset about losing a game. How often do people go out of their way to check this kind of information after a win? At least this is coming after the fact.

If this information was presented right up front at the beginning of the game, some players might start getting tilted right from the loading screen.

We make a big deal about toxicity that comes from other players. But here's a case where we potentially enter a game with an attitude that poisons ourselves. People are already making a big deal about the possibility of being up against a premade (and sometimes, playing alongside a premade). How much more will people tilt when the doubt is removed and it becomes a certainty?

JRobin31Jun 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I disagree with the conclusion. There can be value to making some information harder to find.

If someone goes through the work after a game to find out what premades that they were up against, they are likely upset about losing a game. How often do people go out of their way to check this kind of information after a win? At least this is coming after the fact.

If this information was presented right up front at the beginning of the game, some players might start getting tilted right from the loading screen.

We make a big deal about toxicity that comes from other players. But here's a case where we potentially enter a game with an attitude that poisons ourselves. People are already making a big deal about the possibility of being up against a premade (and sometimes, playing alongside a premade). How much more will people tilt when the doubt is removed and it becomes a certainty?

You argue that players tilt more when they have less information about the enemy. But I think the opposite is true. Players tilt less when they have more information about the enemy. No one wants to be start playing and then find out "surprise: firstblood" they are playing vs a premade. They want to know as soon as possible.

rtbf202329206Jun 25, 20161 votes

play Ahri and u won't have to worry who is queued with who

Lewd NeekoJun 25, 20161 votes

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/rethinking-ranked-fives-and-tuning-dynamic-queue I believe this is what you are looking for?

Swiftstrike4Jun 25, 20161 votes

You can simply go to naopgg and figure out through match history if you were playing against a premade unless that was their first queue together as a group.

Jeanne fan clubJun 25, 20161 votes

So what if you see who's queued together? Afk, flame in chat? It makes no difference. If your looking for some sort of pity after you lose a game, just remember, you are playing ranked, and people who are better than you do play this game. Winning against premades is possible. The only thing stopping people a lot of the time is their own attitudes. No need to tilt yourselves before the game even starts.

Also doing this will cause a lot of people to be flamed for queueing up with their friends. The community has gone into some sort of witch hunt to harass people who do queue up with friends. There is no sort of restriction that keeps certain people from queueing up with their friends. Its peoples pride that gets in the way.

I mean think about it, you don't have to get paired up with 4 other random potatoes that will determine your rank anymore. You get to chose who you queue with. Suddenly unwinnable games where all lanes feed, and the jg never ganks can be avoided. You really don't need to take the fall for other peoples' poor play anymore.

JRobin31Jun 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=9 Tailed Waifu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OWHB45ty,comment-id=001d,timestamp=2016-06-25T12:50:08.979+0000)

So what if you see who's queued together? Afk, flame in chat? It makes no difference. If your looking for some sort of pity after you lose a game, just remember, you are playing ranked, and people who are better than you do play this game. Winning against premades is possible. The only thing stopping people a lot of the time is their own attitudes. No need to tilt yourselves before the game even starts.

Also doing this will cause a lot of people to be flamed for queueing up with their friends. The community has gone into some sort of witch hunt to harass people who do queue up with friends. There is no sort of restriction that keeps certain people from queueing up with their friends. Its peoples pride that gets in the way.

I mean think about it, you don't have to get paired up with 4 other random potatoes that will determine your rank anymore. You get to chose who you queue with. Suddenly unwinnable games where all lanes feed, and the jg never ganks can be avoided. You really don't need to take the fall for other peoples' poor play anymore.

I think that players that go on tilt if they see a premade have issues. To me it's like going on tilt if you see a champion like Yi or Kat or Zed, or w/e you think is OP and before the game even starts you tilt. Some players can't handle pressure. And therefore the best policy is to try to hide the information as much as possible? I don't think so.

Jeanne fan clubJun 27, 20161 votes

I don't think it makes much of a difference if its a premade or not, seeing any number of idiot teammates feed is enough to tilt most people. In a game where 4 other players determine your rank, seeing any of them perform awfully tilts people. There is a point where your teammates are just so bad that its impossible to carry them.

OmphalomSep 20, 20191 votes

I really wish they would show premades. Right now if 2 players are complaining about something I think they are queued together. If I could see they were not I might take them more seriously. If more than 1 player is making the same comments I assume they are premade and silence them in the chat. I had a friend that I used to queue with every so often and if someone said something in the chat about me when I was having a bad game he would get into a huge argument about how you should not be toxic the whole time being toxic himself. He stopped doing that when the third party site showed premade teams. I haven't queued with him since about a month after they stopped showing that information. No matter how much I told him ignore it he would get so worked up It would cause others to start performing poorly.