What if ranked was treated like Team Builder? Wouldn't it be make for a much better system?

wRZcGiWq62·Mar 19, 2015·3 votes·486 views

I know you couldn't pick your champions before you go in, but basically have each person call a position-- then the teams are matched into banning phases and everyone is happy with their roles. I think it would fix a lot of the negativity pre-game and stop the childish "I CALLED IT FIRST" "I CALLED IT B4 U" "I'M ONE SLOT ABOVE YOU, WHICH MEANS IM BETTER AND PICK FIRST-- GET GOOD KID" trolling. Has this not been thought of or tested?

17 Comments

DoctrorpheusMar 19, 20151 votes

I've seen this suggested and ignored so many times. It's like I'm the Architect of The Matrix.

MimyMar 19, 20151 votes

It's been said its currently in the making..

DontDieRespawnMar 19, 20151 votes

Where was that typed? I want to see the details. I would love to see the full document, so I can get Riots idea of this.

EnkidusmurfMar 19, 20151 votes

I don't really have any experience with ranked queues, but . . . team builder needs to be fixed before we use it as a model for ranked.

OperationDEEZ1Mar 19, 20151 votes

Problem is team composition, placing 5 random champions on a field doesn't win games, having 5 champions who synergize well wins games.

DontDieRespawnMar 19, 20153 votes

He is stating, pick your role before you get into the banning phase then pick like you normally would, so everyone gets their role.

DoctrorpheusMar 19, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Problem is team composition, placing 5 random champions on a field doesn't win games, having 5 champions who synergize well wins games.

HAHAHAHAHA

Every time it's suggested there is always THIS GUY ^ who doesn't get it.

DontDieRespawnMar 19, 20151 votes

I asked for this feature in the past... +1 The people who deserve to win, who are carries at their roles would move up in tiers easily.

wRZcGiWq62Mar 19, 20151 votes

Oh okay I've been on hiatus for about 8 months and just started back about a week ago so I thought it sounded like a good idea. Hopefully they really ARE in the works on it.

Matthias9119Mar 19, 20151 votes

They're working on a version of Team Builder for Ranked play.

Some issues with "just do it like Team Builder but don't pick champions, then go into Draft":

Like with the current Team Builder, there will be much longer queue times for some roles than others. But any role-based queueing system will have this issue unless they reward people for playing less popular roles.
This will make it much easier for one-trick-pony players to reach higher ranks. (Depending on whether you think this is a problem or not.)
what happens when someone gets banned out of their role? Like they call jungle, but they're last pick and all their junglers get picked or banned out before it gets to them. Your team just gets screwed? Someone has to swap roles (which really sucks after they waited 20+ minutes for mid or top)? What's to stop people from just claiming they're banned out to hold the team hostage and get the role they want?
what stops people from queueing as Support/Jungle, then getting into champ select and saying "HAHAHAHA I'M GOING MID DEAL WITH IT" and locking in a midlaner?

wRZcGiWq62Mar 20, 20151 votes

Most people apparently didn't read through the entire post as they are complaining about mirror match-ups, of course it will have bans and no mirror match-ups.

Matthias, I don't see how #2 is an issue because do you see Doublelift going support? Do you see Faker supporting? They play the role they are best at. What is wrong with everyone being able to do so?

#3 I mean that's pretty crappy if you're going to pick a role and can't play more than 3 champs in the rare event that they ban ALL 3 of your champs. Still would be less trolling than there is now.

#4 Same answer as above, trolling is going to happen but this would definitely decrease it. It happens just about EVERY game now, I would say this would cut it by 50% at least.

#1 If you want to play that specific role then that's the price to pay is a wait time, however if you play more than one-- you get faster que times most likely. There's the bonus.

SmokingPuffinMar 20, 20151 votes

Matthias, I don't see how #2 is an issue because do you see Doublelift going support? Do you see Faker supporting? They play the role they are best at. What is wrong with everyone being able to do so?

http://www.probuilds.net/doublelift

4 support games in his last 10, as it happens.

The main problem I have with the proposal isn't the idea of a player being able to get to high ranks playing only one role. It's the idea of a player being able to ride only a champion or two to a high rank. Current diamond players know how to play at least a dozen champions at a high level, and I think expecting a breadth of competence is desirable in a ranking system.

I wouldn't mind if a player knew how to play a bunch of different top laners at a high level, but I really wouldn't like to see "I only play Hecarim top" be a common thing in high elo.

bad arcade kittyMar 19, 20151 votes

teambuilder is crap with no bans and counterpicks but with stupid mirror matches

say 'repsect pick order pls' and then ignore the callers, signify your role when it's your turn to pick

Athenes LuluMar 19, 20151 votes

Lyte has been working on implementing that kind of system into ranked for a long time now.

But would be pretty cool if there were bans and counterpicks involved as well. I don't want mirror matches in ranked, ever.

SmokingPuffinMar 20, 20151 votes

Team builder has significant issues for ranked.

No bans
No counterpicking
Heavy meta enforcement
Imbalanced matches
Seriously long queue times

I wouldn't recommend it as a starting point.

You could do a queue by role thing, and I believe Riot is working on such a thing. That addresses most of the above complaints, but you get some new ones:

"Support" players actually just hoping to troll their way into a faster queue with another player playing support
Highly ranked players with kiddie-sized champion pools
Players who like to pick their role based on what's been picked so far can't do that anymore

ActuallyArrowMar 20, 20151 votes

You did read the post, right? He said that you'd pick your role, and then move to the banning phase. Meaning you pick your champion later. And what's bad about enforcing the meta?

You could also just have a "fill" option, so that your third point in the second list is still viable. And "Support" players would still troll in normal game types anyway. Pretty sure you need like 13-16 champs to even play a ranked game... so...

SmokingPuffinMar 20, 20151 votes

He said that you'd pick your role, and then move to the banning phase. Meaning you pick your champion later.

My point is that many players who are competent playing many roles do not know what role they want to play until they see some other things happen.

For example, maybe I like to mid or jungle most of the time, but if I see an enemy Blitzcrank pick I now want to play support, because I'm really good at shutting down enemy Blitzcranks.

And what's bad about enforcing the meta?

High elo team builder means I can only play fotm champions today. Picking ADC Varus leads to infinite queue times for me. This is obviously bad, yes?

And "Support" players would still troll in normal game types anyway.

This system offers them a new incentive to troll -- queue for support, be a jerk, either get dodged (no penalty for you) or get to play mid with a much faster queue time.

People respond to incentives; previous cases where we change the mechanics of champion select by less have had a much larger effect on troll rates.

You could also just have a "fill" option, so that your third point in the second list is still viable.

If I pick "fill", I'll get matched with "top" "mid" "adc" "jungle" and I won't have the flexibility to pick a role based on what I see get picked, like I currently do in draft mode. Given the expected difference in role popularity, picking "fill" is basically the same as picking "support".