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Why even bother adding 99% slows?

Agidyne··48 votes·6,665 views

If you are going to softcap it at 220, and this soft cap actually turns into a hard cap at 110?

No matter how powerful a slow may be, a champion will never be able to go below 110 Movement Speed.

Imagine you are playing Talon/New Zilean and you slow a Pantheon with your E.

That should leave Pantheon with 3-4 Movement Speed considering he has 365 Movement Speed.

But since Riot hard caps it at 110, that would leave Pantheon with 112 Movement Speed.

Infact, if you get 1000 AP on Janna, your 100% Slow will leave your targets with 110 Movement Speed no matter what.

So, your 99% slow is a 70-75% slow at best.

Even if the enemy has 450 Movement Speed, your 99% slow will always cap at 110.

A 99% slow is just an excuse for not putting in a snare.

The formula used is:

When the raw movement speed is less than 220 another soft cap is used:

  • If the raw speed below 220, it gets multiplied by 50% and added to 110.

The only thing a 99% slow has over a regular slow, is that even if the enemy was running at 1000 Movement Speed, it would always ensure he will go to a value slightly above 110 Movement Speed.

But that is stupid anyways since he should be running at 10 Movement Speed and not 115 after all.

59 Comments

CounterSnipe45 votes

You actually answered your own post by saying, "A 99% slow is just an excuse for not putting in a snare."

This is completely true. In fact, placing a 99% slow is able to influence a champion's position in a fight like a snare or a stun, but it doesn't affect channeling abilities like TF ult or Kat ult.

99% slows allow champions to still influence enemies without completely eliminating any form of counter play such as flash, or abilities. It's actually a really nice mechanic because it provides utility to champions without making them over powered.

EndlessSorcerer25 votes

Actually, snares don't stop channeled abilities. The difference is that slows don't disable movement abilities and still allow you to move, no matter how slowly.

Narasimha3 votes

Some do. Maybe it was the situation, but I have seen cases where Kat's ult has been stopped by Zyra's E, Morg's Q, and Ren'E. I'll try and reproduce it to be sure though, I'd hate to spread misinformation.

EndlessSorcerer9 votes

It says that snares/roots don't interrupt channeled abilities on the wiki: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Snare#Root

If channeled abilities are being interrupted by snares, that's probably a bug.

JJI7442 votes

{quoted}

It says that snares/roots don't interrupt channeled abilities on the wiki: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Snare#Root

If channeled abilities are being interrupted by snares, that's probably a bug.

Your both right. Most channeled abilities will not be stopped by snares. Kat's ult will not, for instance. But there are a couple of exceptions. TP summoner spell, Shen's stand united, Zac's Slingshot, and Cait's net will all be stopped by a snare.

EndlessSorcerer5 votes

Actually, all those abilities are movement abilities, which are blocked by snares anyways. That doesn't really have anything to do with the channel, charge, or cast animations.

As it stated in the link I posted to the wiki:

Will interrupt charged dashes, namely: Elastic Slingshot and Vault Breaker.

This will not prevent delayed blinks that have already begun channeling, such as Twisted Fate's Gate. *This is with the exception of Teleport and Shen's Stand United. *

Caitlyn's net is a movement ability, which snares prevent. It's a bit different from normal ones since it will still toss out the net, but it won't let you move while snared.

Jamnon1 votes

Except both those abilities need to be channeled.

EndlessSorcerer5 votes

Channeled movement abilities. Snares stop movement abilities, whether or not they are channeled. It's not hard to understand, especially when I post a quote straight from the wiki on the subject.

Jamnon1 votes

{quoted}

It says that snares/roots don't interrupt channeled abilities on the wiki: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Snare#Root

If channeled abilities are being interrupted by snares, that's probably a bug.

"Snares/roots don't interrupt channeled abilities on the wiki."

It's not hard to understand, especially when you post a quote straight from the wiki on the subject.

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

Your both right. Most channeled abilities will not be stopped by snares. Kat's ult will not, for instance. But there are a couple of exceptions. TP summoner spell, Shen's stand united, Zac's Slingshot, and Cait's net will all be stopped by a snare.

those are all movement abilities which by definition, snares stop.

JJI7441 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lvaKYelA,comment-id=000300000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-02-11T22:56:06.034+0000)

those are all movement abilities which by definition, snares stop.

Not quite what I meant. Snares prevent you from activating movement abilities, (J4 gets a pass on E+Q) but some have channels. Some of those channels, unlike most channels, do get stopped by snares. But some don't. TF's ult is a channel+movement, but does not get stopped if you are snared.

Major Sparkles2 votes

Ryze's snare interrupts teleport....

EndlessSorcerer10 votes

Teleport is a movement ability. Snares disrupt movement abilities.

That has nothing to do with it being a channel.

Snares blocking teleport was **explicitly **stated in the link I gave:

This will not prevent delayed blinks that have already begun channeling, such as Twisted Fate's Gate. This is with the exception of Teleport and Shen's Stand United.

lDontLiftIcarry1 votes

some do. You're full of shit if you don't think they do Do you know theres a split secondf when every snare hits that you cant cast anything?

EndlessSorcerer7 votes

Snares should only block movement abilities. If you find that snares stop casting of non-movement abilities and the effect can be reproduced reliably, submit a bug report to Riot.

Kobila20001 votes

You can also use flash and similar movement spells when you're slowed.

Agidyne9 votes

{quoted}

You actually answered your own post by saying, "A 99% slow is just an excuse for not putting in a snare."

This is completely true. In fact, placing a 99% slow is able to influence a champion's position in a fight like a snare or a stun, but it doesn't affect channeling abilities like TF ult or Kat ult.

99% slows allow champions to still influence enemies without completely eliminating any form of counter play such as flash, or abilities. It's actually a really nice mechanic because it provides utility to champions without making them over powered.

Snares provide enough counterplay already considering they allow targets to fight back.

A snare is a CC debuff which allows targets to use spells and essentially fight back, it just doesn't allow movement impaired abilities or spells. It also allows the target to auto attack.

A silence doesn't allow most targets to fight back, yet it allows the target to move. It does allow the target to auto attack but that's it.

A stun is like a mix between a Snare and a Silence. It doesn't allow Movement or the Casting of spells. It also doesn't allow the target to auto attack.

A 99% slow allows the target to do whatever the hell it wants, it's a joke, seriously. It should be like, a Snare that actually allows the targets to flash away or use Movement Spells such as Shunpo and stuff. But the mere fact that it is Hard Capped at 110 makes it worse.

Targets are already able to use spells to get to safety, why should they also be able to move?

I understand that on the reworked Zileans kit, a 5.5 seconds 99% slow would be too stupid.

But the one on Talon is just a joke. They remove a 1 second Silence to give a 0.25 seconds 99% slow, which would be a fair trade-off if the Min MS Cap didn't exist.

GaleWinUnleashed6 votes

But that's the point of it being a 99% slow, instead of a snare. It's a way to force enemies to use their gap-closers or escapes, because they can't rely on speed alone when they're slowed to that extent.

Agidyne7 votes

{quoted}

But that's the point of it being a 99% slow, instead of a snare. It's a way to force enemies to use their gap-closers or escapes, because they can't rely on speed alone when they're slowed to that extent.

Then a 99% should completely ignore the Min MS Cap.

That's the main reason why I think 99% slows are bullshit.

They don't slow you for 99%, they are just "set targets ms to 110" buttons.

Yes, setting a targets MS to 110 sounds like a very powerful ability on paper, but not if it lasts 0.25 seconds.

Narasimha1 votes

You missed a decimal. Zilean's slow (which I'm assuming you're referring), slows for 2.5 seconds.

Blunts Moses4 votes

Nah he's referring to Talon's slow (used to be a silence, now it slows by 99% for 0.25 seconds just so his autoattack procs his passive)

DEmperor951 votes

I don't see your point exactly. I mean, if the hard and soft cap thing didn't exist, they would just make the slow like %60 or %70, not %99, which will effectively have the same effect. The difference is that in the scenario I just mentioned, champions with huge movement speed won't be slowed as much as a %99 slow with a hard cap, which basically makes it a lot less effective.

The5lacker1 votes

Channeling is unaffected by snares, and 99% slows still allow movement so it still isn't a snare by the actual definition.

Erockandroll12 votes

Whether a 99% slow matters or not does not really affect Zilleon's actual power if we look at the other half of the ability.

So maybe it says 99% because of the Speed up mechanic. And that's actually pretty powerful.

Agidyne4 votes

{quoted}

Whether a 99% slow matters or not does not really affect Zilleon's actual power if we look at the other half of the ability.

So maybe it says 99% because of the Speed up mechanic. And that's actually pretty powerful.

There is no difference between a 100% Movement Speed Buff and a 99% Movement Speed Buff either.

Max Movement Speed is also "soft" capped.

The difference between a 99% speed up and a 100% speed up would be like, 2 MS at best.

Narasimha1 votes

That 99% boost makes a lot of difference to champions without any at all.

junglerboy1610 votes

The point of a 99% MS slow is that certain cases with slow resistance from Swifties or the mastery and extremely high MS (like ghosting Rammus in powerball) make that 99% slow a whole lot less than that soft or hard cap anyway. A Rammus at over 700 MS with about 33% slow resistance from items and masteries would be slowed by only 66%, and that would drop his speed to around 230-240, which is still above the soft cap even.

AbiwonKenabi4 votes

Yes this is what I was thinking. You said it way better than I could have. The extra slow percentage is in case the target has MS boosts or whatever. A lesser slow might not slow them for that cap. A 99% slow will most likely hit that 110.

Also, as others were mentioning, its different from a snare in that it forces the target to use their escape, like Flash.

Hupsis10 votes

A 99% slow is just an excuse for not putting in a snare.

Nope. They inteded his slow to be just a slow, not snare.

The problem is the way they inform players of this. If you ask me they should tell somewhere clearly that there is a soft/hard caps for slows AND soft caps for hastes.

Otherwise I think it's a good spell. Only other thing missing is that Master Yi is most definately immune to it :/

Kingsgrave2 votes

{quoted}

Nope. They inteded his slow to be just a slow, not snare.

The problem is the way they inform players of this. If you ask me they should tell somewhere clearly that there is a soft/hard caps for slows AND soft caps for hastes.

Otherwise I think it's a good spell. Only other thing missing is that Master Yi is most definately immune to it :/

Yi was immune to it before. Whats your point?

Hupsis4 votes

Lol it was a joke :P

James Stone7 votes

To affect people with massive speedboosts.

Duh

Teridax686 votes

A 99% slow means you can bring even a Powerballing Rammus with item 3270 down to a crawl, but it also means you can pin enemies down without denying them the ability to use gapclosers. A point-and-click 99% slow is sort of acceptable, but a point-and-click 2.5-second snare wouldn't be, because those two forms of crowd control don't limit your options in the same way.

The reason there's a soft and hard cap to minimum movement speed is because any movement speed below that amount would feel super-oppressive: 10 movement speed means it would take you literally ten seconds to walk over Teemo. 110 movement speed is already a little over a third of the weakest base movement speed in the game (325), which is itself really slow.

CrazedPorcupine5 votes

Actually, Janna's Slow is bugged and actually will set people to 0 MS when it hits 100% slow. 99% slow caps at around 112-111, but a 100% slow actually stops a person dead in their tracks.

Kingsgrave4 votes

{quoted}

Actually, Janna's Slow is bugged and actually will set people to 0 MS when it hits 100% slow. 99% slow caps at around 112-111, but a 100% slow actually stops a person dead in their tracks.

They just start moonwalking in place

Jak MeJohnsonov3 votes

talon should have a .75 seconds 99% Slow... just saying.

Rip silence.

Shadow Gilgamesh3 votes

I don't know how the numbers work in this game, but wouldn't a 99% slow effectively ALSO be a speed boost remover? Like even a ghosted charging Volibear or speedball rammus would likely be reduced to 110(or thereabouts) by a rank 5 Zil E? Everything but Yi's highlander anyway.

Malix Farwin3 votes

I look at it more of like a guarantee 110 movement speed slow regardless of boots, MS items like Shiv, dragon buff and movement bonus abilities like lulu's whimsey. You aren't taking those into account though. Unless you are arguing he should have one in which case i would disagree

RogueWill2 votes

Sejuani Try slowing her late game to anything below 300 ms. i dare you.

Major Sparkles2 votes

Good catch. However when Nasus uses his slow I sure feel like I'm moving 3-4 movement. :|

InsaneSamurai2 votes

This should be explained in tooltips and such, and if it's the case then no slow should tell us it's going that high when it can never actually slow someone that much.

The Bearded Bard2 votes

99% is a lot like '40 days' in the Bible. It just means a lot, not specifically those numbers. Basically they're snares that don't affect movement abilities.

Subject 51 votes

I don't know why, but when the OP said "At best" i instantly thought of this. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFoC3TR5rzI

cFlame1 votes

"I think Riot is targeting how powerful and easy it becomes to farm a minion that's slowed, you see when a enemy minion is slowed by such a high % its very easy to farm them for both the person who used the slow and allies. This allows for very diverse strengths and weaknesses!"

  • Idiot.
NullDragon1 votes

99% slow is short-talk for 'limit a champion's movement speed to 110 movement speed.

It's not a 100% slow, because people would be confused as to why that didn't snare or root people. For Zilean specifically, the same value also doubles as a movespeed boost.

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

If you're talking about Zilean, they're not going to make it level like slow/slow/slow/snare. Otherwise I assume it's to bring champs down to 110 regardless of speed buffs.

Dinkshiinker1 votes

Just for them dashers and blinkers

Report Team GG1 votes

99% slows overpower MS steroids. basically says that even with super powerful MS steroids, you're still at hard capped MS

Dominnion1 votes

Dashes

WyvernEgg1 votes

Because Garen. That's why.

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