Frustrating Champions: Can You Define the Source?

Mãge··5 votes·1,322 views

Hello fellow Summoners! Cardi here. I have a set of questions to pose to you, but only after you've picked one champion - one champion from the entire roster that you like playing against the least. Just one.


Then, the questions posed are...

  1. What about the champion frustrates you? Go into as much detail as you can, to the point of extreme detail if necessary.

  2. Have you tried playing the said frustrating champion? What are some things you've discovered? If not, ignore this question.

32 Comments

Troy2426216 votes

Designs that eliminate as much counterplay as possible to the point that your skill level is irrelevant as long as theirs surpasses a certain threshold.

Meaning, if they play their champion properly, what you do doesn't matter.

Leblanc Kassadin before their silences were removed were the worst offenders.

Mãge1 votes

Could you pick just one that exists in its current form in League today that you find exceptionally bad and describe how they eliminate counterplay in more detail?

Troy2426213 votes

{quoted}

Could you pick just one that exists in its current form in League today that you find exceptionally bad and describe how they eliminate counterplay in more detail?

Designs that leave little in the way of options that feels like meaningful counterplay. For example, Fiddlesticks has extremely strong abilities. I said earlier I dislike CC + damage, and Fiddle is the epitome of that. However, he has counterplay elsewhere in his kit; with proper vision control, his ultimate is profoundly telegraphed, and if you CC him during his channel or simply avoid the ultimate, it renders him weak; but played properly by the fiddlesticks, it feels game-changing. He's not great at dueling junglers, because CC shuts down both his damage and sustain. This, and his mediocre clear speeds, means he is also weak to counterjungling. And, he needs 6 to gank well, making his early pressure weak, trading off for his late game prowess.

In other words, Fiddlesticks' counterplay feels good to use. You punish him when you counterplay him properly. He gets killed after going in with no escape and just whiffing. And, it's counterplay everyone has, regardless of champion pick.

Right now he's pretty weak. But,...

Contrast this to the ironically proclaimed "healthy" assassin design that nobody enjoys playing against, Zed. Dodge his poke combo? Congratulations. However, he's manaless, and he'll just do it again in a few more seconds. His famous counterplay of hourglassing or going invulnerable? Well done, you survived. That's it. You didn't punish him. He used a 120/100/80 second CD that is no doubt shorter because of CDR, which is almost certainly shorter than the CDs you popped to survive. Even if that's not true, all you did was survive. Maybe Zed has no kill pressure on you. Luckily, he has excellent waveclear, and will just go roam.

And his counterplay isn't universally accessible. Don't have invulnerability in your kit? Maybe Zed picked after you? Well JUST LIKE THAT, the difficulty increased astronomically. But don't worry, at least Zed scales well despite having safe long range waveclear if he does happen to need to play passively.

Zed has counterplay, it just doesn't feel good. This is why, even despite having a low win rate, he still has a significant ban rate. Nobody wants to play against him. It just isn't fun. He's hard to punish, and damn near impossible to gank unless he decides to be greedy.

Nameless Voice2 votes

These two posts sum it up really well, and actually apply to pretty much every champions that I hate playing against.

Big Lincoln5 votes

Bard is fkn stupid, permastuns me when im by something and permaslows when im not, then he puts down an e and makes talon jealous of his parkour cuz he's so op even fat fuck like gragas becomes better than talon. last week i was playing a nice fun game of league of legends as my favorite character teemo when all of the sudden bard ults me out of fog of war and kills me dead by himself, and then he put a shrine on my corpse, spammed mastery before doing a 360 and walking away

no i've never played bard i have too much self respect to stoop that low

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

lmao made my day man here is the upvote

Shadòw2 votes

Yasuo

fcking 0.1sec cd dash, fcking windwall, fcking free shield.

Ryuyah2 votes

Hmmmm, there's so many, but I'll go with Yasuo

People say vayne can 100-0 with auto auto q auto + shiv + IE, but she has a 50% chance of not one shotting you. windman can do the exact same thing with 2 more q casts but with a 100% success rate.

His shield is easily dealt with in lane (if you're ranged), but in teamfights he can just ult and he'll get a full flow bar His knockup hitbox is really big (Q3)

His windwall blocks shit BEHIND HIM if you cast it at the right time

His dash is spammable, meaning as long as he positions right, he can dodge most skillshots

His ult gives him armor pen (why)

Most of all, he does SO MUCH FUCKING DAMAGE item 3087 item 3031 is goddamn UNKITABLE item 3022 or is TANKY AS FUCK item 3046 or ALL 3 AT ONCE item 3046 item 3031 item 3022 item 3072

Papa Slothy1 votes

comparing vayne to yasuo is kindof stretching it

Ryuyah1 votes

yeah you're right

at least yasuo has to get sorta melee to kill u

vayne can tumble to get one second of invis

fuck vayne

Papa Slothy2 votes

lol

Valexfor2 votes

Zyra support.

First of all: Zyra is supposed to be a stationary zone mage that is extrmely powerful in her own zone, but extremely weak outside of it. I have nothing against it, the problem is that she doesn't delvier this at all, she's an RNG reliant burst mage pre-level 3 that becomes a non RNG reliant burst mage with no setup needed post level 3, before anyone says "muh seeds" there is literally no skill needed in stacking 2 seeds and placing them during your skills delay so that you can't miss the damage from the plant, I played her once or twice and even I managed to do that, it's not that hard, especially counting it takes a huge amount of time before people can step on them (1 second for the passive and huge 1,5 seconds for the W planted seeds, which means that the enemy just can't prevent you from activating them if you have a brain). Zyra does not suffer from a bad fantasy, she just suffers from bad design choices that balances her over the need to set up a zone, withouth making it hard at all to se up said zone and even move it, especially in the support role where she can just focus on harassing her laners whenever she has her 2 seeds stacked or the enemy is near on of her passive's seeds (which have a pretty forgiving range). She also has tools to protect herself from dives, which are supposedly her weakness, in her E and R and has enough burst to zone people off of poking her or csing if one of her seeds is ready to be planted or is already near them.

I seriously hate this champ so much right now, her lane phase as a support is obnoxious and her late-game is just bs thanks to her ult...

Penns1 votes

Tryndamere

  1. His spells are easy as hell to use well ( http://i.imgur.com/r73VJe3.gif )
  2. He just stays top so someone that doesnt easily get dived has to go there all the time.
  3. http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/6/68/Undying_Rage.png/revision/latest?cb=20140618163902
LostFr0st1 votes

Fiddlesticks on ARAM; his E is the bane of every caster's existence. Not his ult, i don't care about the ult, just the E and how far it will look for bounces and how it will re-apply the silence each time.

Yes, I've played him. He's a basically a free win if you don't go afk and they have any casters at all.

AcidTheWarlock1 votes

Fiora

She's hard to catch with the champs I play and eats them all. She snowballs super hard then becomes impossible to kill due to W+lifesteal+ult+passive. She can dive you easily. Massive mobility.

And I feed my brains out when I play her. Or any other squishy AD besides Zed.

IceKingChernobog1 votes

Heimerdinger Will always be my one of my top hate champs. He's one of the older champs that has little to no counterplay if your melee, and just a pain to go against if you're ranged unless you're Lux Sion Veigar Velkoz. Even Teemo has is counterplay heim is have wave clear or suffer from him permapushing your lanes with in 10 minutes.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Well most of the people here are going to spam Yasuo so that's that...

Personally for me it's teemo. This champion sucks and doesn't help neither team to win, all he does is to make toplane pitiful af.

And A Real Hiero1 votes

Ekko:

1 Overloaded kit, bullshit mobility.

2 Hell no.

DJ Lucio1 votes

Ekko is easily counterable

Make him use an ult and render him useless as fuck

And A Real Hiero1 votes

I know, especially after we get 5 bans.

Nyanza1 votes
  1. Fizz Troll poll. Insane burst damage. No creep block, while I get mobbed by minions.

  2. I played fizz once. It was disgustingly easy to stomp with him. His only real weakness is he's melee, but that doesn't matter 3 levels in. I went like 13-2-4.

JustMonika131 votes

I would go as far to say that all champions are frustrating to play against in their own way, especially if you're losing to said champions in a game. My personal most hated is Fizz though. Fucking Troll pole.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

you will find a pattern

Quinn her kit makes melees her sex slaves

Ahri never has hard time in lane and she bullies the hell out of you

Vayne too absurd and late game if shes half decent

Khazix early game bully.

Pantheon lane bully.

i dont like champions that bully you in lane or champions that have no real counters.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

Ahri never has hard time in lane and she bullies the hell out of you

When I play as ahri I have a hard time and the bullying factor doesn't exactly change that

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/430/609/3d9.png

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

the most frustrating champ in league is that one non-ahri who fails to be ahri and is thus frustrating and frankly awkward

I've played against this champion, I discovered that they are in fact not ahri as I suspected while I was playing ahri. I think they had a name but its not even important enough to mention

#AhriFancultBanner

The Whamboozler1 votes

Let's rock. There are a LOT of champions that frustrate me. Akali , Ekko, Fizz , Graves , Tryndamere , Yasuo , etc etc...

But I think I will go with Ryze.

Ryze is a spambot. He mashes his face on the keys and does damage. If you walk within his range, you are instantly rooted and he'll start spamming on you. He's basically a less bursty Annie who's stun is ALWAYS up. I find him obnoxious and unfun to fight... and obnoxious and boring to play. And this is saying something because I DO like champs like Annie and Malzahar. Ryze tho, I dunno... something about him. Maybe it's just that he goes top and abuses melee champs. Maybe it's that he can build real tanky and put out nasty damage. Maybe I just hate bald guys... but I just kinda hate having him in games.

VladTheMage1 votes

I for one hate Chogath . Consider me a Gold scrub but he is way too oppressing in lane if you can't deny his farm and kill him before he gets his ult and stacks on minions.

Also Leblanc for her unreal burst and mobility.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

mmmm...... there's a handful of champions that I hate for a handful of reasons, but they all come down to counter-play.

I'll use satanTeemo as my example. Baring in mind, frustration and strength aren't the same thing.

  • His poison passive can let him win trades with 1 AA then running away.
  • If he's VS a right clicker, his point-and-click Q will chunk them and guarantee they can't trade.
  • He stealths by entering brush or remaining inactive - regardless of circumstance. Ensuring trades are only on his terms. (A common problem with stealth champions).
  • F'ING SHROOMS This wasn't an issue when we had oracle's elixir. But after it's removal, we lost any way of effectively controlling his invisible nukes. He's currently the only champion that can potentially devastate an entire team without doing anything (or even being alive). Sure, the other team can stack up red-trinkets, but that means they're sacrificing vision (which is far more important) just to deal with this hamster's non-interactive BS.

I have tried played Teemo a few times during free weeks. It had no effect on my opinion of him. I beat people by ensuring they had no reasonable opportunity to respond to what I did. Sure, it's fun to kill the enemy team after they just barely aced us. But how did I do it? By dropping a few shrooms next to our turret. Yay, triple kill. There was nothing they could do.


Singed Singed follows a similar model where his success is based on ensuring as little interaction as possible - which in turn means there's very little you can actually do about him.

Yasuo Yasuo has the counter-play problem but swings it to the opposite extreme. His kit lets him ignore his own counter-play. In effect, a good Yasuo punishes you for doing what what his kit tells you to do. The lane (and to an extent - team fights) invalidate his opponent. Success and failure depends only on his actions and not the opponent's.


Kalista TahmKench On a mostly unrelated note. My own team shouldn't be able to gift wrap and deliver me to the enemy team like some Mayan sacrifice. Sure, this skills are great with some coordination. But holy shi+ their shared skill is jarring. Made even worse that there's no warning and you can't defend against it.

rtbf761092711 votes

for me (mid player) it's things where I feel like there was nothing I could have done except not be there at that time. For example, flash ult + jg gank from Annie Malzahar . Or jg flashes and ults me to gank Vi Skarner.

Just feels like "oh I guess I die" since before you can move again you are just dead. Where as with champions with a ton of power but need to land stuff, I can do things to counteract what they are doing such as Brand Ahri Lux Orianna Taliyah Viktor . If they miss key abilities you don't get stunned and/or take way less damage

DJ Lucio1 votes

Nothing tilts me more than playing against a Yorick.. I can't help but get destroyed even though i'm winning in farm, kills, assists. He just does so much damage regardless to what I do, just throw me in his cage, molly-whop me with his Q, and slow me with his E if I manage to get away. He just bends me over and makes me call him daddy, and can easily tower dive when Maiden is up to tank all of the damage.

I can win early game, then get raped midgame when he gets triforce.

I've played him and fed hard, gave up on it.

I also can't stand how a 0-9 Nasus can just stay top all game, come down and shot me when i'm playing Lucian.

idek

crzymdscntst1 votes

Lately? Taric Nothing more annoying than how low his ultimate's cooldown seems to be. It definitely has ZERO counterplay except "Wait it out" and that's not an option always. It's basically just his ultimate. Kayle was more than annoying enough with just a single-target invulnerability. It may be brief, but it lasts long enough that it basically counters teamfight behavior. IF you engage, you will not be able to do any damage to them. It's not okay when you're playing a burst-caster who's cooldowns are burned. Having played Taric on the other hand... Same problem with him. I wasn't having fun using the ultimate, despite the fact that it won the teamfight by itself. If it wasn't for the fact that nobody stayed close enough to me while I was playing him, despite engaging or following allies, that game definitely would have been won.

The other one that gets me lately is Yasou, but I'm sure there's more than enough Yasou in this thread. (No resources combo low cooldowns on a kit that can mitigate poke and only engages via ultimate when the opponent is already prone from knockup. Basic snowball issues with mobility-skill users that have no resource... see Riven, Zed.) Having tried Yasou, it only solidified that while I can't play him well, that it's clear that something is janky about how he doesn't need to save skills. I think I'm just more annoyed with Yasou lately is because I play Heimerdinger a lot and his dash can kill my turrets before they get a shot off sometimes.

N Komaeda1 votes

It's quite hard, because it changes over time. If I have to give my most hated champion right now, it'd be Renekton.

DISCLAIMER: I am a Support main, this is a really biased opinion based on my general picks (Thresh , Nautilus & Bard).

I know I can counter him really hard with any of my picks, through heavy CC. The problem I have with him is that he can dive through your frontline, into the backline, chop up your squishies and return unscathed if he's slightly ahead. For me, the problem Renekton yields is his W. I used to want to play Toplane. Needless to say that he crushed those dreams. His W deals so much damage in such a short time, and if he builds Tiamat, and has Grasp or Fervor, trading is a death sentence. Even if he'll get low, his empowered Q lets him regen health back. Add Grasp of the Undying to the mix, and it certainly shows my hate for this champion. What also bothers me about Renekton is his Q. A lot of toplaners have to be safe when fighting in the enemy minion wave.

-Darius can only heal his life back if he hits the minions with the blade part of his Q;

-Yorick's ghouls will most likely get distracted by the minions, unless his E has been hit, and;

-Yasuo can get countered fairly easily by a lot of toplaners.

But when that empowered Q comes out, Renekton cares even less about the minions than he did with his normal Q. After that, popping that Ultimate, he's basically giving those minions the crocodile pillar.

To answer your second question, yes. I have played him, and I have regret for tainting my already impure soul. His playstyle is too aggressive and punishing, but when facing any toplaner that does the same, you'll basically get stomped.

I just haaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Renekton. c:

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