A Reasonable Lux Nerf

ivan usi virgin·Feb 18, 2016·97 votes·6,575 views

a couple patches back, Riot decided that for whatever reason Swain, a champion with only a ~2% pick rate who's already extremely weak in this meta should be nerfed. Swain's snare duration is now 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds. Lux's snare on the other hand lasts 2 seconds at all levels. Swain's ranked winrate as of february 15th is 49.50% with a 1.95% pickrate while Lux's winrate is 53.49% with a 24.12% pickrate. why is it that Swain has to have his snare nerfed but not Lux? i know riot likes some champions more than others which is why their game is so fucking unbalanced right now, but i think it'd be fairly reasonable to give Lux's snare the same treatment that they gave Swain, since she's so damn strong right now.

177 Comments

Blumpkin NationFeb 18, 201635 votes

Well, I mean. Projectile, 2 person 2-second snare.

And at the time, .5 delayed, aoe 2 second, 5+ person snare.

The reason they nerfed Swain's root was because it was too oppressive with his auto-target Q/E/R. Being unable to get away from Swain meant death for a lot of champions.

Lux needs the revert on the second hit of her snare. It shouldn't deal the same damage and duration to the second target.

MunchCrunchLunchFeb 18, 201611 votes

wow. they must be really bad team to get all snared by him. swain cant even snare 1 person unless he forces you in a situation where the best solution is to get snared anyway.

ivan usi virginFeb 18, 201631 votes

Swain's snare also has a delay before it actually snares. even so, i'd argue that Swain's snare is equally as difficult to land as Lux's. and though Swain can snare more people with his, the difference between Lux and Swain is that once Lux's snare is landed she can burst from a completely safe distance in no more than a second, while if Swain's snare is landed he has to dive in and put himself in danger in order to properly follow up and do damage, which even then, it would take Swain over double the amount of time it'd take Lux to burst down a snared target.

edit: not to mention Lux's snare cooldown is much shorter than Swain's

Hayaishi2Feb 18, 201610 votes

[{quoted}](name=AdoIf Tiltler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lpMyzGz2,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-02-18T04:30:47.162+0000)

Swain's snare also has a delay before it actually snares. even so, i'd argue that Swain's snare is equally as difficult to land as Lux's. and though Swain can snare more people with his, the difference between Lux and Swain is that once Lux's snare is landed she can burst from a completely safe distance in no more than a second, while if Swain's snare is landed he has to dive in and put himself in danger in order to properly follow up and do damage, which even then, it would take Swain over double the amount of time it'd take Lux to burst down a snared target.

edit: not to mention Lux's snare cooldown is much shorter than Swain's

yeah put himself in danger with his sustain a massive slows.

ivan usi virginFeb 18, 201616 votes

his sustain which can be countered by burst, item 3165 item 3123 summoner 3 and summoner 14 and slows which can be countered by tenacity and slow resist. not to mention he's very immobile, making him easily susceptible to cc.

Hayaishi2Feb 18, 201627 votes

[{quoted}](name=AdoIf Tiltler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lpMyzGz2,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2016-02-18T04:39:32.699+0000)

his sustain which can be countered by burst, and and slows which can be countered by tenacity and slow resist. not to mention he's very immobile, making him easily susceptible to cc.

Lux can be countered by burst, her CC can be countered by tenacity and slow resist, not to mention she's very immobile and easily susceptible. You can also dodge her abilities. I sound like a fucking douchebag right? Yet everything i said is right, but i'm not defending Lux, she is pretty fucking bullshit but Swain had to be dealt with, he was oppressive and needed nerfs.

Penta AceFeb 18, 20163 votes

So are you saying you don't agree with this lux nerf? If so just say so and discuss why. I don't get what this back and forth about swain is about.

ivan usi virginFeb 18, 201616 votes

i'm just talking about Swain because i'm a salty Swain main and i think it's ridiculous how his snare is nerfed but Lux's isn't considering the differences in win/pick rates.

Penta AceFeb 18, 20163 votes

I was mostly responding to the other guy, it seemed like he just wanted to argue about swain rather than discuss your proposed nerf to lux.

ivan usi virginFeb 18, 20167 votes

aye that's the impression i got, i just wanted to throw in my input, that's all.

Penta AceFeb 18, 20165 votes

Yeah i totally agree though. I feel that lux's playstyle is a bit too safe right now.

Spicy RiceFeb 18, 20162 votes

I feel the problem is less in her snare and more in her e. Her lucent singularity feels nearly impossible to dodge, and also sets her up to easily conbo someone down post 6.

As to a proposed change, make her e have a smaller aoe radius that expands if it has time to sit in one place.

This allows it to be used more strategically while also giving some counterplay through the time it takes the radius of the explosion to grow

Penta AceFeb 18, 20161 votes

^Yes! I've been saying this for the longest time and people just accuse me of having poor reaction time or not being good enough to dodge. Her E is waaay too easy to land and almost impossible to escape. One of the many reasons she is too safe.

CosnirakFeb 19, 20161 votes

I dodge her Es a lot with ease. As a mage, without boots... It's really not that hard. Watch how the Lux laning phase goes in pro games. It's usually boring and involves 0 kill pressure from Lux. She gets easier to dodge as the game goes on and move speeds go up. If her E hits you a lot it's because your positioning is predictable.

Penta AceFeb 19, 20162 votes

It really depends on the champ i guess. When i play lux i punish melee champs extremely hard for trying to cs. Even i will admit landing my E doesnt really take effort.

Hayaishi2Feb 18, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Penta Ace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lpMyzGz2,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-18T04:52:20.375+0000)

So are you saying you don't agree with this lux nerf? If so just say so and discuss why. I don't get what this back and forth about swain is about.

Because her utility is not the problem her damage is.The fact that she runs around one shotting teams with a 30 sec CD laser, IS the problem, she can keep her identity as a long range pick mage, with safety, but she shouldn't keep her damage.

CosnirakFeb 19, 20161 votes

I'm pretty sure the Swain talk stems from the OP mentioning Swain and comparing the two champions in opening post of the thread.

Penta AceFeb 19, 20161 votes

I lnow where it stems from. Im saying the focus should be lux.

CosnirakFeb 19, 20161 votes

"I don't get what this back and forth about swain is about." - Penta Ace

Penta AceFeb 19, 20162 votes

Yeah i said idk what its about not "idk where it stems from" XP

Earthlord JazzFeb 18, 20165 votes

Exactly, they nerfed the ability that took skill rather than the actual-problem abilities, which is beyond ridiculous and ignorant.

SolitairFeb 18, 20163 votes

The reason they nerfed Swain's root was because it was too oppressive with his auto-target Q/E/R. Being unable to get away from Swain meant death for a lot of champions. This^ How many people complained about Swain nerfs without having actually fought a decent swain?

weeaboomerFeb 18, 201615 votes

Why are you ignoring her brain dead E at 1100 range?

darkdillFeb 18, 20164 votes

Viktor's E is much nastier. Only slightly less range, but eclipses her damage.

AND it costs less and has a better CD.

Agent ApeFeb 18, 20169 votes

You have a better chance to dodge viktor laser than lux E. Lux can spam the E key while it is still in the air to insta-proc it.

Romans 8Feb 18, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Viktor's E is much nastier. Only slightly less range, but eclipses her damage.

AND it costs less and has a better CD.

I think Viktor's E is harder to control/aim though.

SouL1essFeb 18, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobi Only Sways,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lpMyzGz2,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-02-18T05:20:28.859+0000)

Why are you ignoring her brain dead E at 1100 range?

Because it has a 130 mana cost and reasonably high CD that Riot thinks is worthy tradeoff for a "skillshot" that always hits.

weeaboomerFeb 18, 20162 votes

Are you agreeing with me or what?

TeCoolMageFeb 18, 20165 votes

He doesn't have to side with anyone to state his analysis...

Slamurai JackFeb 18, 201612 votes

I would still rather face the OP Lux than ever face a Swain because at least Lux needs to hit a skillshot instead of just pressing her buttons on me like Swain does. I can also kill her. Swain? Just let me heal 300+ HP off your minions in an all in at lvl 6 trolololol.

charcharmunroFeb 18, 201611 votes

It's odd, though, they nerfed Swain in what was the fairest thing about his kit.

Stained SpearFeb 18, 201610 votes

Fuck swain. Fuck swain. I keep trying to say something here but fuck swain is all that keeps coming out. Fuck swain. That is all.

iBlitzcrankFeb 18, 20168 votes

is that true? yes

BakedLotionFeb 18, 20164 votes

When lux players asked for a mana cost reduction to her E and riot decides to buff her every other patch in everything else.

PrimadonnaFeb 18, 20164 votes

Revert the 5.17 changes to her Light Binding and give her E a smaller mana cost at higher ranks, and she will be much much more balanced to play against and as. She was fine before her 5.17 changes, not sure why they gave her a stronger second snare when she didn't need it.

NekusenFeb 18, 20163 votes

how about her snare no longer hits 2 targets, so being behind a minion actually helps.

darkdillFeb 18, 20169 votes

Then her Q is an inferior copy of Morgana's. That's not allowed.

Ayame IsakiFeb 18, 20164 votes

It has always hit two targets; they made it so the second target is affected as much as the first which is what should be reverted.

Oerba No NajaFeb 18, 20163 votes

Riot likes some champion more than others ?? I cant see what you mean LeeSin

DeloricVIFeb 18, 20162 votes

Honestly, Lux needs some changes. I know its good to have champions that can go different roles, but seriously, Lux is ridiculous. She scales so well with AP, she's played mid a lot. But she has so much cc and utility, she goes supp a lot. People say she does less damage on support, and this is barely true. Most Luxes on support suffer no penalty for building like they're going mid when supporting. Everything but their gold input will be just fine, but since they just farm champions their adc can farm while they get kills/assists.

I mean, just look at how much damage Lux does when compared to champions like Lulu, or Janna. Like, just look at the kit differences. Lux has high utility normal skills, with some pretty ridiculous ratios, and a high-damage execute ult with a high range (NOTE: NOT REALLY AN ACTUAL EXECUTE). Janna and Lulu have ALL utility skills. Lulu has no moves that just do straight up damage, other than maybe Help Pix casted on an enemy, but that still gives you vision of them and moves Pix for plays. Her ult is massive utility and can give any champion an engage, but doesn't do TONS OF DAMAGE. Janna's ult is the opposite; she knocks enemies away, and HEALS allies around her. These are "normal" caster support champions. Even Morgana scales differently with support items; her burst can get a little out of control in the late game, but Lux does pretty hefty damage during the mid, late, and sometimes even early game, if she can get the kills going.

Wow, this thread made me realize I hate Lux more than Morgana. That's... wow.

Serika ZeroFeb 18, 20166 votes

I mean, just look at how much damage Lux does when compared to champions like Lulu, or Janna.

dude are you for real? Both Jana and Lulu got only 2 skills that do damage, and that is mediocre damage. They are good for other reasons. And Janna right now is god like <3

DeloricVIFeb 18, 20161 votes

I'm not using this to say that Lulu or Janna are bad; I play lulu as my main support and I love playing her. However, I wanted to point out huw much more damage Lux does, while still providing a similar amount of utility, if, admittedly, slightly less.

darkdillFeb 18, 20162 votes

Can Lux shove enemies away? Nope. Can she Polymorph someone? Nope.

KING OF MASKSFeb 18, 20162 votes

I love both champions and all I have to say is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3fVj8A-K8E

Rundus1Feb 19, 20162 votes

upvote for Robo-reasoning. OP's logic has now been verified.

KING OF MASKSFeb 19, 20162 votes

Blitzcrank tested, Viktor approved

ShuvitFeb 19, 20162 votes

Lets all agree lux's ult with 45cdr is what makes league hell for adc's and any other backliners. Overall her damage is crazy....and somehow they put "support" in her champ role.

RikariFeb 18, 20161 votes

Her Q could stop rooting people on the second hit or not do damage,either way its insanely rare to hit two actual champions with it, even in low elo. Her E can't be touched. Her R could use a longer cooldown.

invisiblecat1Feb 18, 20166 votes

Agree with the R change, every 30 seconds she can do 1k damage to multiple enemies

AbyssphereFeb 18, 20161 votes

It is pointless to compare Swain's stats post-nerf and Lux's stats pre-proposed nerf in order to ask "Why was Swain nerfed and Lux isn't?". No shit Swain is weaker than Lux after his nerf, that was the whole point of him being nerfed. Obviously Lux is stronger than him right now and could probably stand to get hit herself but if you want to ask why Swain was nerfed and not her, you should be giving us his stats from before he got his root hit. What he's like now is irrelevant.

Popularity is pointless to mention anyway, he's so easy that if his popularity was as high as Lux's it'd make precisely zero difference to his win rate.