Petition to make fresh level 30's not play ranked in Silver Tier

R0XTAR·May 5, 2018·123 votes·19,679 views

Pardon my french, but a fucking Tryndamere should have more than 28 CS at 27 minutes in an average silver game.

It's getting fucking ridiculous and becoming borderline insanity.

88 Comments

KhristophorosMay 5, 201839 votes

Ranked MMR should start at whatever your normal MMR is when you first start.

Some fresh level 30s are ready for silver and others aren't. It could easily be determined if their normal MMR was taken into account. Riot has the tools, they just aren't doing it.

VizulixMay 5, 20188 votes

Agreed.

Especially considering that level 30 now is like level 15 in the old system.

LoxxisMay 5, 20182 votes

I agree with this more than my original comment. Some new players have Moba experience while others are still new to the concept. Place them according to their MMR.

Yxgl222HaXMay 5, 20183 votes

eh idk about that alot of people buy unranked level 30 accounts. i personally know someone who got banned then bought a new one for like 20 bucks and got placed silver 3 from who ever had the account originally and he was b4 0lp before the ban. Tire 5 -3 in every non bronze rank is alot harder to climb than 2 and 1 imo because you have alot of boosted players sitting in devision V and you have people who dont care about demotion because of the safety net and people who are simply tilted. Seems like people put in more effort in ranks 2-1 because they are getting closer to the next rank tier. But hey thats just my personal expirence it may not be the same for everyone. Having a plat 5 0lp tf with first item ruuans and 17 cs at 20 in my first promos to plat was a tilter thats for sure. The dude even openly admitted to buying the account and even advertised the page he got it from in game -shrug-

In Borke VeritasMay 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ranked MMR should start at whatever your normal MMR is when you first start.

Some fresh level 30s are ready for silver and others aren't. It could easily be determined if their normal MMR was taken into account. Riot has the tools, they just aren't doing it.

Wait how long has normal MMR been a thing and how does it affect normal games? It cant much because normals are always a mishmash of elos from bronze to dia and higher... correct me if im wrong, anyway

KhristophorosMay 5, 20181 votes

There has always been normal MMR. It is completely separate from ranked MMR so it doesn't matter if you see different ranks in normals. They are people who played different amounts of ranked or no ranked at all. Their normal MMR is calculated by their performance in normals. It has nothing to do with their rank.

Also, there are no premade restrictions in normals. So a lot of times you have people who actually have totally different normal MMR grouping together.

the weeabooMay 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Riot has the tools, they just aren't doing it.

most accurate statement in pretty much every scenario

HeraimishMay 6, 20181 votes

This would make people more tryhard in normal games, which ruins it for players that play normal games before lvl 30 or just want to play for fun.

3TWarriorMay 6, 20181 votes

tryharding is fairly mellow in normal games but people still play to win

i've even come across higher ranked players that get impressed by varying strategies

ColteMay 5, 201823 votes

this proves exactly what riot is doing wrong, LOL reducing exp letting the unexperienced jump straight into ranked fighting silver / gold players at 1500 mr the new players have no idea what they're doing then get carried to gold or plat by pure luck, this is possibly why all the games have such poor quality atm.

that is so unprofessional of them to allow that to happen but we can't expect much from a company that nerfs underpowered champions and buffs meta champions for literally no reason at all.

[sg-ahri-1]

Madsin25May 5, 20187 votes

Ok I have to talk about this.

If "one bad player loses you the game" that so many people preach then I fail to realize how these "bad kids" are simultaneously getting carried into gold or plat by luck.

LoxxisMay 5, 201812 votes

I'll sign that shit. I got placed in S4 my first time placing ranked a few years back. I got my arse stomped so hard I felt it IRL. Newly ranked accounts should start around Bronze 3, as that's about average for mediocre players (no offense to anyone.) This ensures that new-ish players won't be put in somewhat higher tiers off the bat and wind up getting curb stomped like I did. Maybe I'm being harsh there though.

Z3SleeperMay 5, 20184 votes

But... that's not a silver game and the guy is Bronze 2.

Lower your expectations dude, you're playing with the lowest division in all of league.

Yordle XayahMay 5, 20184 votes

2019 Wood Hype tho

sKz Aaron DMay 5, 20182 votes

I am SO hyped to see wood division tournaments.

BeersteinMay 5, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=sKz Aaron D,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lfvZZnT5,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2018-05-05T16:07:58.740+0000)

I am SO hyped to see wood division tournaments.

I want wet toiletpaper V streamed live.

ChaddyFantomeMay 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I want wet toiletpaper V streamed live.

Nah man, its all about dem tinfoil 21 competitive games.

3TWarriorMay 6, 20181 votes

tin foil is around the same strength as paper but wet toiletpaper, lol

sKz Aaron DMay 5, 20184 votes

This issue is specifically being addressed by adding the new ranked tiers next season, and reworking the provisional/placement system.

zacktootallMay 5, 20183 votes

there are things i could say in opposition to this petition but i have been down this road before so im just going to downvote and say good day

R0XTARMay 5, 20188 votes

{quoted}

there are things i could say in opposition to this petition but i have been down this road before so im just going to downvote and say good day

That's funny, because level 30 now is like level 13 in the good old days of season 3-5 before Riot fucked with the leveling system. I would like to know why this is a bad idea.

DubshokaMay 5, 20186 votes

{quoted}

there are things i could say in opposition to this petition but i have been down this road before so im just going to downvote and say good day

what the actual fudge is this mentality?

3TWarriorMay 6, 20181 votes

the "tired" mentality XD

big boi edriMay 5, 20182 votes

They're already adding another league tho (2 of them)

Daddy AntsMay 5, 20182 votes

New accounts, regardless of smurfs or not should start in Bronze 5 by default in my opinion.

Smurfs can climb out easily.

RaiyzaMay 5, 20182 votes

Agreed!

New accounts should start at Bronze 5, like we all had to before.

Granola17May 5, 20182 votes

I agree, I just got out of silver and I remember the placement players who are new to ranked getting absolutely stomped in lane and having no idea what to do after, why do not they start in bronze???

BionessMay 6, 20182 votes

The only issue I would have with this is if it is a player than is returning and hasn't played in a few years. I stopped playing for 3 years so my level and champion masteries don't accurately reflect my skill.

Ok sure but whyMay 5, 20181 votes

I would love to see ELO hell come to an end, too

remakoroMay 5, 20183 votes

ELO hell does not exist.

Wild HerbivoreMay 5, 20183 votes

it really does, and it's shit like putting new accounts in silver that creates it.

remakoroMay 5, 20182 votes

Then how people climb after creating new accounts? How some people drop down to bronze on purpose but climb to dia every season? How smurfs carry games in low ELO?

ELO Hell is nothing but you hitting your own limit. You just dont have skills or game knowledge that should allow you to climb higher.

notice me Sin piMay 5, 20181 votes

elo hell does exist for

extremely tiny minority of people who are at the 0.00001% lowest spectrum of luck, or basically getting matched with more trolls/afks than enemy team in at least half of all games
people who can not put in enough time for 100+ ranked matches per season. Standard deviation σ is higher for people who play less ranked games, and elo hell could be 40% lowest spectrum of luck for this group of players
and also maybe for people who say "i deserve silver 3 but am stuck in silver 4"

UpDownLeftRightABMay 5, 20182 votes

2.5%, statistically, are having EloHell. 2.5% are having the opposite of a problem and getting pushed up.

AMADEUSdotEXEMay 5, 20181 votes

don't we all start out unranked...? confusion

LoxxisMay 5, 20183 votes

The average player, when first placed, is around Silver V MMR because of the system. He means to lower that, since having fresh lvl 30 accounts in a ranked game is kinda dumb, especially at that MMR.

Livin like RivenMay 5, 20183 votes

{quoted}

don't we all start out unranked...? confusion

Yeah, but the game has two MMRs for you, one for normal games, which up until 30, is what you're using for every game, and one for ranked games, which, if you've never played a ranked game before, is in Silver, so it puts you against Silver players, even if your normal MMR isn't Silver.

DemainaNyxMay 5, 20185 votes

You start out unranked, but the game has to have you play against other people to understand your level of understanding on the game, so they start you in the middle. If you check out the rank distribution, the system will make you play your first placement game with people who are about Silver 3. That is about the 50% mark. From there it adjusts you up or down depending.

The problem with this is that some people have literally no idea what they are doing. They may have just played bots until they hit 30 and never played a normal game ever before.

I had a game one time where my Ashe didn't seem to understand basic things. She would pop heal because she lost 100 hp. I don't think she ever used flash. She died numerous times because I would back up and she would just stay at her current position despite the enemy jungler walking over 2 wards in river. After that happened, I stopped build supportive and built some AP in hopes of holding towers on my own.

At one point, Ashe was under our tier two tower with the enemy Vayne trying to take it down. Ashe never attacked Vayne or anything, instead just mindlessly attacking the minions (not getting last hits though) while Vayne did whatever she wanted. As Nami, I came in, used me E to slow Vayne, landed a bubble, hit more autos and used W (possibly ulted too, don't remember) to chunk Vayne to about 1/4 health. Meanwhile, Ashe is still sitting under tower. Vayne escapes somehow, and my entire team is all "Ashe, that was a free kill, what are you doing?" To which I respond, "This has been happening all game, I don't know what else to do." Luckily the rest of my team was crushing so we won, but that Ashe certainly didn't know what to do or she had like 5000 ping all game.

Not saying every fresh 30 is like that Ashe, but I've had a ton of people who were fresh 30s who didn't seem to even understand the basic stuff that bot games was supposed to teach you.

Azazel AerternumMay 5, 20181 votes

That's bronze elo though

Miku AppendMay 5, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azazel Aerternum,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lfvZZnT5,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-05-05T05:05:28.843+0000)

That's bronze elo though

Silver is filled with Bronze idiots that somehow got lucky and think their good, then proceed to feed the enemy team.

JanakinMay 5, 20181 votes

Disagree. When I started playing league I ended up silver 1 after placements and I am sure I never belonged to bronze. Why should I start in there.

DW DianaMay 5, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Disagree. When I started playing league I ended up silver 1 after placements and I am sure I never belonged to bronze. Why should I start in there.

I was the same mate, but you have to accept that we are the minority. Most new players entering ranked do so as soon as they hit 30, with having only a basic understanding of any champion, let alone their matchups. I remember when I was first playing ranked I had an app on my phone that told me what the champions did and had tips on how to counter them. This helped me no end but I doubt most people at this point in the game even think of checking what their opponents can do, let alone ways to counter them. Also a lot has changed since when you started in Season 4.

LuthianDelphiMay 5, 20181 votes

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/380081894513180674/442343865656016897/unknown.png dw, we got silver ex bronze, lvl 35 gold and even plats all in this one ranked game :D matchmaking is a bro

BeersteinMay 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/380081894513180674/442343865656016897/unknown.png dw, we got silver ex bronze, lvl 35 gold and even plats all in this one ranked game :D matchmaking is a bro

Dude, that's high silver MMR, newbs start in low silver. That guy won his way there or is duoing. Probably duoing with the plat with LP, the one with 0 LP true MMR is probably trashcan level got carried.

LightIsMyPathMay 5, 20182 votes

No, they start in middle silver and go up if they win first placements. I had a game so terrible in my placements I still remember it after 3 years, after winning 4 placements in a row I got matched against a plat 5 Cassiopeia in my 5th ranked game. It was.. Not a good experience

XhaidenMay 6, 20181 votes

It's enough to keep playing and you can reach lvl 50 (dosn't matter how good you are), so raising the lvl cap wouldn't bring much improvement. On the other hand - would be nice if they add requirements like:

You need aMastery 6+ on 5 champs - until you're allowed to play Rank.

Only champions with Mastery 5+ are allowed in rank games (since there's lots o players who **TRY **champions for the first time in rank)

Seriously, if you want to play Rank - you should have some good knowledge of that champ.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

ModCaliCoastReplayMay 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's enough to keep playing and you can reach lvl 50 (dosn't matter how good you are), so raising the lvl cap wouldn't bring much improvement. On the other hand - would be nice if they add requirements like:

You need aMastery 6+ on 5 champs - until you're allowed to play Rank.

Only champions with Mastery 5+ are allowed in rank games (since there's lots o players who **TRY **champions for the first time in rank)

Seriously, if you want to play Rank - you should have some good knowledge of that champ.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

The first requirement sounds awfully heavy, mostly due to the BE req's on M6 and M7 at present. You don't want to force ranked play to only be for lifers or lootboxers - I think that's very restrictive and might hurt the game. People who play the game 5-10 hours a week, but with earnestness and skill, need to be just as accepted as the lifers - people do have lives and jobs out in the real world. I think something like M5 on 3 champs - PLUS the second of your requirements (Maybe M4 though? Let people pick up new champs less restrictively?) - is better. The idea of requiring at least a month or two of practice with a champion to take it to ranked would fundamentally change the game a lot, but probably for the better.

In general I think your idea is very sound, even if I'd recommend slightly less heavy req's. I do think something needs to change. The game's skill cap is very high. You don't put up football players from the weekend beer league against the NFL - people will get hurt. Here, only the feelings are hurt, but they can get very very hurt. If Riot is serious about being a founder in the field of e-sports, it needs to become a founder of more recognized skill levels and accomplishment levels and training programs as well, to prevent bad feelings and bad blood. There need to be more training options, and more recognition of skill levels and possibly privileges for putting in work to get to those levels, the same as with physical sports.

XhaidenMay 7, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The first requirement sounds awfully heavy, mostly due to the BE req's on M6 and M7 at present. You don't want to force ranked play to only be for lifers or lootboxers - I think that's very restrictive and might hurt the game. People who play the game 5-10 hours a week, but with earnestness and skill, need to be just as accepted as the lifers - people do have lives and jobs out in the real world. I think something like M5 on 3 champs - PLUS the second of your requirements (Maybe M4 though? Let people pick up new champs less restrictively?) - is better. The idea of requiring at least a month or two of practice with a champion to take it to ranked would fundamentally change the game a lot, but probably for the better.

In general I think your idea is very sound, even if I'd recommend slightly less heavy req's. I do think something needs to change. The game's skill cap is very high. You don't put up football players from the weekend beer league against the NFL - people will get hurt. Here, only the feelings are hurt, but they can get very very hurt. If Riot is serious about being a founder in the field of e-sports, it needs to become a founder of more recognized skill levels and accomplishment levels and training programs as well, to prevent bad feelings and bad blood. There need to be more training options, and more recognition of skill levels and possibly privileges for putting in work to get to those levels, the same as with physical sports.

You may be right on the first part, then let's make it:

"You need Mastery 5+ on 5 champs - until you're allowed to play Rank"

Initially was thinking of 6 - cause a player can be really bad and still get to lvl 5 - by just playing the game. But even so, even at lvl 5 - one might still be able to show a bit of mastery with that champ.

My point is: **Rank should be only for players who proved to be skillful - with the champs they intend to play in rank. ** For the rest, there's other modes to enjoy the game like: "Normal Draft Mode (which is identical to rank - without the ladder points)." Somehow similar to what you pointed above (related to sports) - there's no Sport where you had just some basic training (your muscles aren't even ready for a serious match / while the skill is obviously absent do to lack of experience - on a competitive level) - and you can already play for points on a competitive level. Unless you're a genius (you have an extremely high innate talent - and after a week or so you already show the skill of a professional) - but those are an exception. Even n LoL, It's not just feelings that get hurt - but also the whole experience you have with rank games. Since usually, or let's say... logically... you have different expectations from a Rank game. I mean... even in rank - we have leavers (beyond the rare exceptions of a connection drop or an actual emergency - the majority who simply don't care / last weekend - out of 15 games - we had leavers in 7 of them 😠 ). we have people - who ruin your experience from champ select with attitudes like:

"i go mid, i don't care (while getting a different role - by auto-fill)
"You banned Yasuo/Zed -- i feed! (they joined rank - but only know how to play one or two champs)
who lower the chance of win considerably - by counter-pick themselves (cause they don't understand the champs and counter play / or they're simply very weak with that champ - due to playing only few games with that champ - basically - trying that champ in Rank 😒), then flame the JG or the whole team - "for not baby-sting"

The requirements for playing Rank games - are simply waaaaaay to low! 😐

ModCaliCoastReplayMay 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The requirements for playing Rank games - are simply waaaaaay to low! 😐

I'm definitely on board with the concept, and I think it would lend an "earned" sense to taking a champion into Ranked.

ModCaliCoastReplayMay 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You may be right on the first part, then let's make it:

"You need Mastery 5+ on 5 champs - until you're allowed to play Rank"

Initially was thinking of 6 - cause a player can be really bad and still get to lvl 5 - by just playing the game. But even so, even at lvl 5 - one might still be able to show a bit of mastery with that champ.

I'd be on board with 6 if promotion didn't involve so much blue essence right now. It takes a LOT more time to get M6 than M5 and you'd be besieged with angry people in normals screaming about "NO S" or whatever as they get frustrated wanting to take champs to ranked.

I think getting M6 or at least aiming for it as a personal goal on every champ one intends to take to Ranked is a great idea. I just don't think it should be strictly enforced, at least in the era of slow essence. People will need to bring at least two champs to every lane position they intend to play, maybe three - can you imagine the cries of "OMG THEY BANNED MY ONLY M6 TOP" and etc.? So I think Mastery 4-5 would be the way to go, there would be a lot less of that - people could at least bring a breadth of champions to Ranked play, otherwise you're making bans way more powerful as a tool than they maybe should be.

I think one M6 as proof of S-game capability might be appropriate. So...

You need Mastery 6 on a single champion, as well as Mastery 5+ on 5 additional champions, before being allowed to play in Ranked. You may only bring Mastery 5 or greater champions to Ranked Play.

How's this as a final concept?