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Im sorry but......whats up with these support item changes?

Reaper5599·1/10/2018, 11:37:05 PM·45 votes·5,324 views

These are the changes I'm talking about for anyone unaware: Sightstone, Ruby Sightstone, Talisman of Ascension, Face of the Mountain, Frost Queen's Claim [Removed!] Ancient Coin, Relic Shield, and Spellthief's Edge lines Quest gold value lowered from 750 to 500 Quest reward changed to "Gain Unique Active - Warding: Consumes a charge to place a Stealth Ward that reveals the surrounding area for 150s. Holds up to 3 charges which refill upon visiting the shop."

Remnant of the Ascended Formerly Eye of the Oasis Recipe changed: Nomad's Medallion + Ruby Crystal + 250g

Remnant of the Watchers Formerly Eye of the Watchers Recipe changed: Frostfang + Ruby Crystal + 550g

Remnant of the Eternal Formerly Eye of the Equinox Recipe changed: Targon's Brace + Ruby Crystal + 650g

I mean like..... my god these just look horrifying, let me explain what I'm thinking:

Ruby sightstone was a fantastic item for supports who picked up items like redemption, locket, and the base support items, combined with the fact that it offered, if I'm not wrong, the their most health of any item in the game (excluding cinder hulk because its passive sometimes makes it give more, sometimes less) , behind mallet and warmogs, the 500 health it gives is nothing to scoff at, coupled with the fact that it allowed supports to use their active items much more often made this item super important to some supports builds.

The three other 'main' (I'm calling them this for a lack of a better word) support items were also very good, Face of the mountain allowed tank supports to peel for their carry with the heavy shield it offered as you built health and then the AOE slow, it was very helpful for shutting down assassins. Talisman is a great item for engaging and disengaging, the team wide speed boosts is helpful for escaping fights and catching stragglers, similarly, Frost queens can detect the presence of enemies, and allow teams time to prepare, but now all of this is getting thrown out the window, and it feels kindof upsetting since it takes away from part of the supports utility.

But all that aside, the thing I'm most concerned about is this: the support quests.

If I recall correctly, support quests were added to add depth to the support items, rather then them just being there for supports to get gold, and I have always enjoyed them, they were fun to play around with, and made support items feel much more reWARDing (Can you see where this is going?). But now, those are being removed for a shared support quest, the warding mechanic sightstone used to give, and this to me, is a huge bummer, and since you can get these quests fairly early now, it almost can feel like they weren't there in the first place.

But who am I to judge, I may just be a crazy Urgot main going on a tangent here, anyways, Please offer your opinion on this, I would be glad to hear it.

48 Comments

Anatera1/10/2018, 11:51:59 PM42 votes

The purpose of these changes is Riot is amazing and can't make any mistakes. The people who don't like these changes are in the minority and should be ignored. The game is very good if it's basic and ends in 20 minutes with no counterplay.

Plastic 5 ADC1/11/2018, 1:50:43 AM33 votes

Support is gonna be even more boring to play now.

Slythrin Umbreon1/11/2018, 2:33:21 AM24 votes

It seems like it was a knee-jerk over reaction to other lanes building them. Honestly, the only one that was probably over powered was ADCs with Relic and Overheal, but whatever lets nerf supports and open up eight more problems to deal with instead. :/

Yrzen1/11/2018, 9:42:55 AM18 votes

Unpopular opinion, I'm really happy with these changes. I'm a Support main, and as far as I'm concerned, Riot is spot-on with their assessment of Sightstone: It's a pain to build. It's mandatory and insanely useful, but as far as Support satisfaction goes, it's a real bummer. As a Support, you can't take advantage of your leads with an early Censer/Damage Item/Utility item, you just fulfill your tax early. When you're behind, you end up spending a decent portion of the game with little to no decision making in your build. It's not particularly satisfying to finish your Sightstone: you just finally get to do significant amounts of warding.

I agree that losing Ruby Sightstone is a shame, since some builds really like it, and those builds can be really, really fun, but considering we have a rune that does what it does better, I suppose that niche isn't really going to go unfulfilled. As for Frost Queens/Face of the Mountain/Talisman of Ascension, it's also unfortunate they're getting removed, but ultimately I don't really mind. The Eye items provide better stats in every category (Talisman's armor excluded) for their price. As such, I usually want to get started on building other items. The value of the active items is wrapped up in their utility, but I don't think any of those utilities are particularly defining. Talisman's was the most unique in my opinion (Or rather, defined the way you play the most) but ultimately there are other options that kind of let you do what it lets you do anyway, which are now more practical to rush without 800 gold in the way.

Cavesloth1/11/2018, 4:06:05 AM10 votes

No as a support main you are spot on. These changes are made to help casuals and autofilled supports. Not actual supports. Someone put it rather well in another thread. Other MOBA games balance the items people to use. RIot balances the items THEY want people to use. Same for champions. Its a shitty way to run things.

Owntrolf1/11/2018, 4:41:26 PM5 votes

Wooo less reasons to play support

Saitho Orihara1/11/2018, 12:18:08 PM4 votes

They did say they'll try to work Talisman and Frostqueen into seperated items but not Face of the moutain.

  • Unfortunately, having an active as the quest reward requires us to remove the active branches of the item chains - Frost Queen’s Claim, Face of the Mountain, and Talisman of Ascension. Some of the actives provided important options, and so we’ll be looking at ways to bring Frost Queen’s Claim and Talisman of Ascension back in modified forms. Face of the Mountain’s active will likely not return in the immediate future. Also if you play it right, Supports can have to potential to have the first item buy of the game, they gain 800G by not spending it into sightstone. They can either rush the Tier 3 or just buy tier 2 for the wards and rush another item and try to have as much impact with it super early on. I try to look at it from a positive angle in hope it's not just that.
NorthernRedStar1/11/2018, 7:48:45 PM4 votes

This is catering to casuals and newbies, that's all there is to these changes.

People say sightstone was a mandatory purchase, but that isn't actually the case in lower elo brackets. There are TRADEOFFS between choosing WHEN to build Sightstone, its upgrades, or choosing to delay it. This is, a meaningful, freedom of choice.

Choosing between Ruby Sightstone + FotM, or Eye of Equinox + Locket, in general how you itemize around your Sightstone is one of the signs of a better support player. Now everyone ends up with the same plain item, you can't go wrong since you apparently can't expect people to know what to build and when in the role anymore?

The rewards were really nice, MS boost was a huge benefit for mage supports, and the shield felt meaningful for tanks. All these were fine meters, judging how you were doing in some ways compared to enemy support, and being rewarded accordingly. Now even that is gone.

Is the other support itemization going to be neutered too? Just to make sure noobies don't feel bad when their lane rival can't pull ahead anymore, or itemize differently in accordance?

ImpossibleGT1/12/2018, 12:13:33 AM3 votes

My opinion is that I've disliked playing support ever since the first changes to vision in like S2 or whenever it happened. I hate trinkets. I wish item 2056 and item 2047 still lasted until death (either yours or the ward's). It was a simpler time and my goal was clear. In their quest to make the support role "more interesting" Riot has completely missed the point and just spread the job out to everyone. Now when I play support I'm not filling a vital need of the team; between trinkets and pinks, there is actually no need for a support to bother with extra vision items. Instead, as a support, I'm just a gimped version of everyone else because they have income and I don't.

@Riot it's time to admit this has been a 4v4 game the whole time and you've just been too stubborn to change it.

SanKakU1/11/2018, 5:47:05 PM3 votes

They are simplifying the support slot because they have determined that the average support player is too stupid to understand the support items on live. Honestly, they should put more effort into support item changes. They added all those smite upgrades, a lot of imagination went into jungle updates, why can't they do the same for support updates?

Madjack011/11/2018, 1:06:24 PM2 votes

Hmm as a support main in varying forms I too look forward to these changes. I didn't find the gold income items + their actives nor sightstone very fun/interactive in lane. Hopefully the changes pan out and supports can fall back on a more impactful variation of items during laning phase. I would even welcome it if the acquisition of sightstone gets a bit delayed with the quests. This whole anti ganking play with wards early on can get a bit tedious at times.

SpecterVonBaren1/11/2018, 6:49:03 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toxic Urgot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lftbyMhH,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-10T23:37:05.150+0000)

These are the changes I'm talking about for anyone unaware: Sightstone, Ruby Sightstone, Talisman of Ascension, Face of the Mountain, Frost Queen's Claim [Removed!] Ancient Coin, Relic Shield, and Spellthief's Edge lines Quest gold value lowered from 750 to 500 Quest reward changed to "Gain Unique Active - Warding: Consumes a charge to place a Stealth Ward that reveals the surrounding area for 150s. Holds up to 3 charges which refill upon visiting the shop."

Remnant of the Ascended Formerly Eye of the Oasis Recipe changed: Nomad's Medallion + Ruby Crystal + 250g

Remnant of the Watchers Formerly Eye of the Watchers Recipe changed: Frostfang + Ruby Crystal + 550g

Remnant of the Eternal Formerly Eye of the Equinox Recipe changed: Targon's Brace + Ruby Crystal + 650g

I mean like..... my god these just look horrifying, let me explain what I'm thinking:

Ruby sightstone was a fantastic item for supports who picked up items like redemption, locket, and the base support items, combined with the fact that it offered, if I'm not wrong, the their most health of any item in the game (excluding cinder hulk because its passive sometimes makes it give more, sometimes less) , behind mallet and warmogs, the 500 health it gives is nothing to scoff at, coupled with the fact that it allowed supports to use their active items much more often made this item super important to some supports builds.

The three other 'main' (I'm calling them this for a lack of a better word) support items were also very good, Face of the mountain allowed tank supports to peel for their carry with the heavy shield it offered as you built health and then the AOE slow, it was very helpful for shutting down assassins. Talisman is a great item for engaging and disengaging, the team wide speed boosts is helpful for escaping fights and catching stragglers, similarly, Frost queens can detect the presence of enemies, and allow teams time to prepare, but now all of this is getting thrown out the window, and it feels kindof upsetting since it takes away from part of the supports utility.

Most of this is a moot point you know? Riot has said that they are looking at having items with the active (Or in the case of Ruby Sightstone, passive) abilities of those items (Aside from Face of the Mountain's) put on new items. We are not losing those abilities.

Sonasaurous1/11/2018, 6:37:45 PM2 votes

When i first read these changes on the PBE i thought it was a joke, lol. I’m still in the fence about them all, though.

On one hand, I build Frost Queen’s Claim And Ruby Sightstone every game as support (as a predominantly play Sona, Soraka, And Janna). Having the active taken away from my most used item (Frost Queen’s Claim) without an immediate replacement to be seen is a bummer (and like...what if the new item with that passive is absolute garbage and mages don’t even buy it? Which is the only way I see this item going unless Riot is okay with mid using the active).

Then Ruby Sightstone...sure, it was always my last item, but the passive cdr on items was the only reason I bought it, because of my Frost Queen/Redemption/locket build. Are we losing that passive? Cuz that’s another bummer.

But on the flip side, reducing the “quest” requirements is a plus, since I thought they were boring and a waste of time anyway (sitting in lane waiting for rng coins to pop out of minions was not my definition of fun, and getting additional gold per attack on abc enemy champ was nothing new because that was taken from the old masteries).

And sure, saving money on Sightstone so I can buy my “power items” sooner is a plus. Lmao, you mean my ardent censor and redemption? Well at least I’ll have an extra slot for a hat, I guess.

I feel like these changes are 100% geared towards mid-lane mage supports so they can still be prominent damage dealers in the game—WHICH IS A GOOD THING, because thats literally what every other MOBA does and is why playing support on any other MOBA is a more satisfying experience than in League currently.

That said, I still want my Frost Queen active. Preferably on a not-garbage item.

LordGeovanni1/12/2018, 1:58:00 AM1 votes

behind the items you listed that gave the most health in the game these are died after thatitem 2045 item 2303 item 3027

NikelCobalt1/11/2018, 5:22:15 PM1 votes

Okay I main support I go mage or tank support can I usually rush my fotm on my tank so I can get that early shield up in my runes I go as a tank taric gaurdian- font of life- condition - overgrowth secondary is ghost poro then ingenious hunter the ghost poro does warding of the side bush my wards do tri bush there was never a time I went " I wish I had sight stone to know that gank was coming" ghost poro is knows to ward for me so losing fotm is a huge loss to me since I can no longer use this strategy, for my build it's fotm, redemption, frozen fist , randuins, mercs and spirit visage so now I think most tank supports are getting their throats slit and left in a ditch to die only mage supports who generally don't buy sight stone will be pleased with this actually everyone who doesn't buy sight stone is happy about this those since now you won't have your team on you asking you to buy sight stone

Onecimus1/11/2018, 6:10:25 PM1 votes

As a support main, I'm actually pretty happy with the changes. I think they have the potential to get us going faster in the game since we don't need to worry about buying a sightstone anymore and the fully upgraded items are cheaper. But we won't know until it goes live.

dark100dark1001/11/2018, 6:39:33 PM1 votes

I like these changes. 800 gold early is too much waste. Boots are too important.

Flame Storms1/11/2018, 7:44:03 PM1 votes

As a support main I actually am okay with the changes and think they could turn out really great. Having to rush sightstone was highly annoying. I will miss the item CD reduction from Ruby Sightstone, but I'll live with it. Getting to buy a whole extra item will make me happy.