Dear Riot: Guinsoo's Rageblade crowd's out other build paths for hybrid champions

Novellae·Dec 3, 2015·1 votes·1,312 views

is 205.13% Gold efficient at max stacks. (This is ignoring the fact it does AoE and has pushing power)

This is quite literally the best possible buy a melee champ with AD/AP ratios can make, ESPECIALLY if that champ has an auto attack reset or a second worth of CC (Here's looking at you ).

And while sits at 121.03% gold efficiency, does more burst/sustained damage and is bought at 2800g, while costs 3400 (a whole 1200 gold more).

A champ with PERFECT 100% CS by 10 minutes, with no other kills or assists, will have 3317 gold (3817 if you including starting 500). Yes, that means unless you start an item specifically to build into , without a kill or assist it is impossible to have with perfect cs @10 minutes.

Meanwhile, without perfect CS or assists/kills, You can still somewhat easily build , an item that is 84.1% more stat efficient than AND scales into mid/late game much more effectively.

So yes, while you have helped hybrid champs have a viable build path, it is a single item. Just 1. They either build , or fall behind champs with dedicated AP or AD scaling.

As far as I know from your stance on items Riot, it is "We like items to feel powerful, but at the same time we do not want that item to crowd out other item choices."

You made a powerful and fun item for hybrid champs(). Now balance the item costs for hybrid focused items so that they can have choices.

Thank you very much for taking the time to read this! I appreciate it!

(Also, could you please do something with . Like, it is just such a niche pick that people will almost always buy or just about any MR item instead.)

TL;DR : is the best item in game. Always pick . Never not .

18 Comments

Earl EulrichDec 3, 20153 votes

the problem is that even if you nerf rageblade to shambles there is no other buildpath for hybrids...rageblade and gunblade are pretty much the only hybrid items now (trinity had been before the horrible changes, nashors and wit´s end are somewhat hybridy but more niche).

NovellaeDec 3, 20151 votes

But see, that's the thing. I don't want them to nerf it to shambles. I want them to regulate cost on item 3146 to push it DOWN to a cost that is comparable to whatever price they set for item 3124 .

Like just imagine item 3124 at 3k maybe 3.1k and item 3146 at 2.9k. Now you actually have a choice in your itemization. You can now choose to build a sustain/sticking item () if you are having a difficult lane and it is cheap enough so you can buy it when behind, or you can purchase into for dueling power and pushing, especially if you are ahead in gold. But it reduces the super fast snowballing that there is now of guinsoo's without changing the power of the item and allows hybrid champs an option when they are behind.

A change THAT small, would create a whole lot more itemization choices for hybrid champs.

Earl EulrichDec 3, 20151 votes

that´s not really the point...it´d would maybe make other build-orders better (though to be earnest, if both are similar efficient everyone would go sustain first), but it still wouldn´t make other builds possible...thus ultimatly not adding any choices.

ParoeDec 3, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=leQKU815,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-03T22:24:24.673+0000)

that´s not really the point...it´d would maybe make other build-orders better (though to be earnest, if both are similar efficient everyone would go sustain first), but it still wouldn´t make other builds possible...thus ultimatly not adding any choices.

How can you talk about builds or build paths when theres only two hybrid items? Isnt that cherrypicking an issue and ignoring the larger issue, like how hybrid items are rare and hybrid champs rarely BUILD hybrid in the first place?

Lets talk about how infinity edge is 100% of the time the first item on ADCs in the LCS three years running. Lets talk about how rabadons is a multiplicative bonus. Lets talk about how statikk shiv is bought on almost every champion who needs the attack speed.

And then you have guinsoo, which has had a small fanbase for years and only JUST got into the limelight because of its passive cleave - which is one of the most fun cleaves because it adds a great deal of attack speed.

As i said, if you want to 'nerf' guinsoo, makes its components more expensive to increase the build path efficiency for it. Tiamat would be a great way to do just that - replacing the pickaxe for tiamat would increase the gold cost to 3250, but warrant the increased price because tiamat is such a decent item that foreshadows what guinsoos does.

dangopeeDec 3, 20151 votes

I hate that there are like 30 rageblade cheeser champs right now that if ban 3 just 3 more will come out of the wood work to ruin your game. Ban Jax XinZhao Irelia ? Say hello to item 3124 Kayle MasterYi Fizz and even fucking Lulu . Cancer.

Irelia BotDec 3, 20151 votes

it takes auto attacking to get stacks making it far less effective at the start of a fight.

Give and take. It is good for lanning but not so good for jsut going in and trying to blow someone up in 2 seconds without having it stacked already.

Rageblade might be a little strong but it is far from being anything super broken currently.

NovellaeDec 3, 20151 votes

1 auto, 1 auto reset, another auto after, you are now 6 stacks. If you have 1 second of CC, that is enough for another auto. You now are maxed stacks before the enemy can even respond.

NovellaeDec 3, 20151 votes

Issue is the snowballing. If they get ahead one bit, they can purchase item 3124 super duper fast and then just destroy the lane giving you no chance to play from behind.

Irelia BotDec 3, 20151 votes

I guess I'll just post this since it is relevant to the concept of hybrid itemization.

And Yes I did try to make it is a fairly balanced concept based on the date it was last edited. And yes some of the items stated for the build pat are no longer in the game.

Yes it is a post that is over three years old.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2277069

NovellaeDec 3, 20151 votes

Replace item 3091 with another hybrid item. Done.

je7tDec 3, 20151 votes

Don't wanna be that guy but 3400-2800 is 600

NovellaeDec 3, 20151 votes

600g is 2 kills or 3ish minutes of 5 cs per wave. Is a reason why it is somewhat difficult for ADC to reach BF sword without risking a death in lane.

je7tDec 3, 20151 votes

I was commenting on the fact that you said gunblade was 1200 more than rageblade. I have no idea what adcs have to do with math. The real problem is rageblade KogMaw , Jax , and Kayle .

RebonackDec 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I was commenting on the fact that you said gunblade was 1200 more than rageblade. I have no idea what adcs have to do with math. The real problem is rageblade , , and .

Because Kog sure is dominating the game right now...

je7tDec 4, 20151 votes

They said they were buffing him. I wasnt saying he is dominating i was saying he could and his kit has a high potential for great synergy with rageblade

RebonackDec 3, 20151 votes

The hell are you talking about?

Since Trinity got remade there are only two hybrid items. If anything, Rageblade should be balanced as the hybrid version of item 3089 and item 3031 'n should have a price-point to match. You buy Rageblade and then buy AP and AD as needed. Rageblade's OnHit is your multiplicative stat.

ParoeDec 3, 20151 votes

So the fact rageblade costs 2950, making it a big ticket item, doesnt matter at this point? Honestly if you wanted to "nerf" rageblade, make its build path different.

Tiamat+needlessly large rod +gold= 3200 rageblade with a decent build path.

if tiamat still had its cleave, this would be a phenominal biuld path....

xxxDogmanxxxJan 7, 20161 votes

I wish they would just add a stupid Dagger or two to the thing's recipe to make the build path more viable and to show that the attack speed you get actually comes from something instead of out of nowhere. Right now, if you actually like the Blasting Wand component, great, Rageblade still costs 1075 gold just to build. If you don't like the Blasting Wand, then tough luck, you basically have to sit on 1925 gold while out in lane or jungle just to get something out of your Pickaxe. It's even worse than farming for that first BF Sword.