Tank Assassins are Anti-Fun for gameplay

Novellae·Mar 14, 2016·9 votes·2,329 views

I actually started writing a rant about what is wrong with this playstyle, but then I thought "ya know, I think everyone already knows how utter bulls---- it is."

Fighting an assasin with a billion mobility tools that just auto attacks you to death is not fun to fight. In fact, it is pretty damn boring for both players.

>" becomes a design issue when the 'anti-fun' created on your use of a mechanic is greater than your fun in using the mechanic"

> http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=293417

Riot, you have a design issue. I'd love to know if you guys are working on it.

EDIT: Wow, didn't realize people had trouble understanding what tank assassins are.

That build things like:

Go on try it, you'll understand what I mean.

They literally just build tank and abuse the utility in their kits to stand on someone and auto attack them to death.

And it is not baseless. Just a few weeks ago in Korea Tank Akali was one of the top pick/ban champs in the game. We just saw a tank zed with over 3k health in LCS yesterday.

When these assasins who were designed to 100-0 enemies have had their play patterns so destroyed that they need to build pure tank items to be viable, something is wrong with the game.

35 Comments

SP DodgecityMar 14, 20167 votes

Like that moment a full tank Malphite ults burst you instantly down to 10hp or death... DX item 3070

3TWarriorMar 14, 20161 votes

and from like 1000 range away as well...while you are subjected to his knockup-crowd control, which is not vulnerable to cleanse

NyhverMar 14, 20166 votes

Honestly most league champions are boring, linear and not very fun to play as or against due to a lack of meaning outplay/interaction

The assassin that gets a bad reputation for pressing buttons and killing is just as dumb as most other league fighters, tanks that press buttons and kill or zone out just like fed ADCs that cause a bunch of damage and kill

Tobias BracknerMar 14, 20161 votes

I have a lot of fun w/ the champs I play, not sure what you are complaining about.

TehNACHOMar 14, 20164 votes

While being fun is a very subjective thing and Nyhver really doesn't have any basis to say what he did, you do need to admit a lot of champions are in fact linear and simple.

That being said, I really don't understand any sentiment that tries to argue more complex=more fun. Casual games exist for a reason after all, and the vast majority of the most popular ones are as simple as possible.

SouL1essMar 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Honestly most league champions are boring, linear and not very fun to play as or against due to a lack of meaning outplay/interaction

I rather think that League champions are linear and boring mostly because they don't differentiate themselves from another champion very well...

SalronMar 14, 20163 votes

Current itemization is just straight up broken Shit like Titanic Elo shouldn't exist

MiraweaveMar 14, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KMMVwpQu,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-03-14T05:34:11.102+0000)

Current itemization is just straight up broken Shit like Titanic Elo shouldn't exist

Not to mention the fact that builds like that were historically weak to magic damage burst, but now with item 3053 item 3156 they just... aren't.

Mr Broken WingsMar 14, 20163 votes

Fun fact: People also cried about squishy assasins doing their job. Changing itemization wont stop the people from bitching about these champs because they are strong in 1 v 1 szenarios, and people tend to think this game is 1 v 1 ( especially in lower elo). But yeah, current bruiser tank things like fiora shouldnt exist in this game.

YumaS2AstralMar 14, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Broken Wings,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KMMVwpQu,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-03-14T05:40:41.169+0000)

Fun fact: People also cried about squishy assasins doing their job. Changing itemization wont stop the people from bitching about these champs because they are strong in 1 v 1 szenarios, and people tend to think this game is 1 v 1 ( especially in lower elo). But yeah, current bruiser tank things like fiora shouldnt exist in this game.

But I am not those people and I know that if an assassin is squishy I can just group with my team, preventing the assassin from doing its job, also, an assassin that is squishy can potentially be kited.

LankPantsMar 14, 20162 votes

I actually started writing a rant about what is wrong with this playstyle, but then I thought "ya know, I think everyone already knows how utter bulls---- it is."

Personally I'd disagree with this. I'd always prefer to play against a bruiser (which seems to be what you mean) than an assassin. Against a brusher who's dealing DPS you always have a chance to react.

Most assassins just burst you out without really giving that much time to react. Overall I'd say this is considerably worse to have to play against.

I say bring the "Tank Assassins". It's considerably more fun overall to have bruisers than assassins, at least I think so.

Tobias BracknerMar 14, 20161 votes

Tank Assassins?

BoulderoxMar 14, 20161 votes

Fiora and MasterYi are two prime examples, free damage that can't be stopped, so building survival is an advantage with the meh drawback of less burst.

Tobias BracknerMar 14, 20161 votes

Nah I've played against them when they build tank. THey lose a lot of dmg. They got to either outplay or be snowballing to pull off that build.

Irelia BotMar 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

and are two prime examples, free damage that can't be stopped, so building survival is an advantage with the meh drawback of less burst.

So buff up the rest of the dive fighters up to their level and call it good. We are still in a place where marksmen are showing up in more then one lane a lot last I checked.

I get Fiorawith her % health true damage needs some changes I will not argue that.

Tobias BracknerMar 14, 20162 votes

I'm not even sure if they need a buff. Last I checked even in the tourney scene they will buy only 2 tank items and that's at teh end of their build. Doin tank out the gate loses a lot of dmg on them. I feel this is more people not wanting to learn how to beat Fiora/Yi.

BoulderoxMar 14, 20161 votes

that is the trouble, riot can't physically buff 63 champs that have the tag fighter in it. from Taric to Ryze (they are fighters ironically...) it is easier to just nerf 2 than find ways to buff 10+ champs to levels you need to balance out afterwords with tweaking. makes 0 sense to do it that way and it SUCKS.

Irelia BotMar 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

that is the trouble, riot can't physically buff 63 champs that have the tag fighter in it. from to (they are fighters ironically...) it is easier to just nerf 2 than find ways to buff 10+ champs to levels you need to balance out afterwords with tweaking. makes 0 sense to do it that way and it SUCKS.

No one can find an easy real fix that is going to do anything so I would rather see the long road to a real fix taken.

Slamurai JackMar 14, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KMMVwpQu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-03-14T05:18:24.479+0000)

Tank Assassins?

Back in my day, we called them bruisers and anti-carries. Not sure what changed.

RalanrMar 14, 20163 votes

People got lazy?

3TWarriorMar 14, 20161 votes

fighters became the new definition of bruiser where they can get into the fight, deal large amounts of damage and survive long enough to be relevant

tanks unfortunately now seem to fit the juggernaut line where they're practically invulnerable

Kuroi86Mar 14, 20161 votes

Bruisers, he means bruisers.

Darius Diana DrMundo Jax LeeSin Malphite Nasus Nocturne Olaf Pantheon RekSai Renekton Trundle Udyr MonkeyKing Warwick XinZhao

Sahn UzalMar 14, 20162 votes

Does he? If he does, He is officially retarded. I thought he meant things like Yi and Fiora that are abusing items... summoner 31

EvewynnMar 14, 20161 votes

I thought this was going to be a thread about graves..

Captain AishiMar 14, 20162 votes

tank/marksman and marksman/assassin are two other categories of champions that should not be allowed to exist :P

3TWarriorMar 14, 20161 votes

actually, Urgot is pretty dang fun...

he's night unkillable, but his damage quickly falls off

his playstyle is binary, but he fits what the game is, look for an advantage, use your ability, execute your combo then get away from the fight while you're on cooldown or stay as close you can to be relevant or a meat-shield

Captain AishiMar 14, 20161 votes

urgot isn't what I would consider a 'tank'... he's tanky, but he doesn't have massive amounts of CC and engage that are the 'tank' class qualities moreso than durability

AstôlfoMar 14, 20161 votes

Oh look! It's another salty overgeneralistic baseless QQ thread! Man, I love them too! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

NovellaeMar 14, 20161 votes

Updated for Those who haven't actually seen tank assassins yet.

3TWarriorMar 14, 20161 votes

or, as I pointed out in a thread that I made, something is wrong with how champions and items are interacting

as it is, we can currently build any champion to be a tank...they might not be successful at it, but it keeps them relevant if their kit does enough damage or offers enough

I suggested that it would be better to make items by category instead of the multitudes of hybrid items we have available now and to change champion base stats to better portray their intended role

So that way, if someone wants to build tanky, they can, but it will only mean that they survive longer and not that they're a real threat to the entire team (like yi or udyr or aatrox, etc)

the items would be redone so that they either offer defensive stats or health instead of both and the same apply with offensive items

Squishy assassins and carries...potentially brutally tanky tanks (which is my concern and would have to be addressed) and mildly tanky but not oppressive bruisers with less offense-oriented defensive items

AstôlfoMar 14, 20161 votes

So building Titanic Hydra makes them a tank. Okay. Tank Akali is just one of the new builds that have been out, as opposed to normal Spellvamp or AP/AD/Hybrid builds. Uh, Diana usually goes pure AP. Ekko is generally a safer assassin, but he goes more or less pure AP. Tank Ekko's in the past and gone. Fizz rarely ever builds tank. Kata... are you serious? Kha goes at most 2 (Cleaver + a Hydra). Much tank. Yi, I'll concede that one. Talon? Um... okay, so building one bruiser item makes him a tank. Got it. Zed... are you actually serious. One bruiser item does not make a tank.

Nice job making completely crappy, almost entirely baseless exceptions. Tank Akali's way too far hyped. She drops in damage output a crapton in return for going that tanky. It's just that it's harder to kill her and she still does damage, which builds up, and you all QQ about it anyways. Zed tank isn't even a normal or typically viable build. The only reason it worked was literally because that team already was far ahead to the point it wasn't necessary to go full damage, and so going tank in return for drastically lowered damage was good enough.

Nice job with your... "argument".

NovellaeMar 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So building Titanic Hydra makes them a tank. Okay. Tank Akali is just one of the new builds that have been out, as opposed to normal Spellvamp or AP/AD/Hybrid builds. Uh, Diana usually goes pure AP. Ekko is generally a safer assassin, but he goes more or less pure AP. Tank Ekko's in the past and gone. Fizz rarely ever builds tank. Kata... are you serious? Kha goes at most 2 (Cleaver + a Hydra). Much tank. Yi, I'll concede that one. Talon? Um... okay, so building one bruiser item makes him a tank. Got it. Zed... are you actually serious. One bruiser item does not make a tank.

Nice job making completely crappy, almost entirely baseless exceptions. Tank Akali's way too far hyped. She drops in damage output a crapton in return for going that tanky. It's just that it's harder to kill her and she still does damage, which builds up, and you all QQ about it anyways. Zed tank isn't even a normal or typically viable build. The only reason it worked was literally because that team already was far ahead to the point it wasn't necessary to go full damage, and so going tank in return for drastically lowered damage was good enough.

Nice job with your... "argument".

http://puu.sh/nGwsZ/52f3d73469.jpg

So Sterak's Deadman's Plate Titanic Hydra Maw

Count as 1 tank item now?

Yah, nice arguement, at least I actually cite things with proof rather than just list random shit.

AstôlfoMar 14, 20161 votes

Do you know how to read? "Zed tank isn't even a normal or typically viable build. The only reason it worked was literally because that team already was far ahead to the point it wasn't necessary to go full damage, and so going tank in return for drastically lowered damage was good enough." Try learning basic English next time before you just repeat your same awful argument. :)

And one LCS game, wow such proof. Let's just ignore the vast majority of all the other games and the circumstances of said LCS game. Nice "proof".

NovellaeMar 14, 20161 votes

(http://puu.sh/nGvA3/bbd65c6cdc.jpg) (http://puu.sh/nGvEO/ef7a2a0dc1.jpg)

I am a horrible Kat, went against a matchup that is horrible for her, still came out with over 50% kill participation and more damage to champs than jungle ekko and almost as much as one of the top mid lane "Assassins" in the meta atm. Not to mention I was a tank that forced 3 enemy champs to focus me every fight. And that is on one of the shittier tank assassins

Edit: Literally, logged in and played one game just for a proof of concept.