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I've been playing Dota a lot lately, and have some things to bring back.

Bârd··128 votes·6,610 views

  1. Towers may be too weak in league right now, but you do NOT want them to be exceedingly difficult to destroy. That's how it is in Dota. It's all too common an occurrence in Dota for one team to stomp for the first 30 minutes but get stuck at the enemy T3 turrets and stalled to 70 minutes, likely losing the game in the process due to getting outscaled. Being unable to end the game due to an unstoppable turtle is just cancer.

  2. League could deal with AFK's way better. In Dota, you can pause the game; if somebody DC's, you can pause if you think they'll come back. After they've been gone for 5 minutes (not counting pause time), they and anyone in their party will be punished, and the game becomes safe to leave (the team still loses rank, but their time isn't wasted).

  3. The RNG in this game is nothing to complain about. Seriously. You're getting mad about plants, crit chance, and dragon spawns? You've got it lucky over here; you don't have to deal with rune spawns, bash, evasion, or Dota crits (which have lower proc chances than League crits, but MUCH higher multipliers).

  4. Map skins. Announcer packs. Music packs. HUD skins. Riot, you already have these assets, let us buy them.

  5. The Compendium is a cool thing available a couple times a year. Pay a fee, gain access to a bunch of questlines. Progress through the questlines to unlock cosmetics exclusive to that questline (not just some icon; proper skins). All proceeds go to a tournament prize pool.

114 Comments

Spank the Fox69 votes

Don’t forget if someone leaves, their gold is even distributed.

TheThundersRoar45 votes

And the entire team can control the AFK hero in addition to their own.

Karunamon16 votes

And the game is free to leave for everyone once there's a confirmed AFKer.

YuGiHo16 votes

safe to leave games are great. not being held hostage or punished for something beyond your control is great.

Critmaster Garen27 votes

league snowballs too hard and turrets do fall too quickly.

even when league games were at their longest, game times usually lasted between 30 and 40 minutes. anything longer was extremely rare. huge difference to the 70 minute games youre describing.

30 to 35 minutes should be the average game time for league to make sense. shorter and it fucks with power curves of too many champions and causes games to end before top laners had the chance to make an impact on the game.

lane phase should last 15 to 20 minutes, and then the game should transition into a teamfight phase to resolve by 35 minutes.

right now, we have 8 to 10 minute lane phases in one single lane (which is usually bot), while the other laners are still in their early stages before they got their first big power spikes. and then the game usually breaks down when that winning lane starts to rotate, and snowballs to hell.

Ralanr12 votes

If laning lasted 15-20 minutes then only Farm junglers would work imo. Early game gank junglers would be pretty useless (despite the hate they get, they exist for a reason).

I’m not advocating that laning should be decided by the first kill in 5 minutes, there has to be a middle ground.

D357R0Y3R4 votes

that's not how it works at all

in season 2 the most broken jungler that had 100% ban rate was Alistar

and after lvl 2 you couldn't play agressive anymore due to his old ganks but laning phase still lasted 15-20 min against him

Sraeg201321 votes

1_._ Nobody is asking for 70 minute turtles. Everybody is asking for not losing inhibitors at 15th minute, because there's no way to defend towers, if your entire team isn't in their immediate range.

korg0231 votes

You gotta take these fast games man, crowd loves it :D Oh wait we are not talking about competitive LCS? ...doesent matter dude you dont matter we just care about competitive and money :) - Rito James

The Lexer5 votes

If you actually watched LCS, you would know that competitive games this past season have lasted far longer than normal SoloQ games and many have come down to late game team fights

Karunamon20 votes

Things DOTA does better than League:

  • Sane AFK protection (once someone goes away and stays gone, everyone gets to bail out consequence-free)
  • Much better graphics
  • Customizable terrain/hud/announcer/music skins
  • LPQ for leavers and toxic assholes keeps them out of games played by civil folks better than Riot's unrealistic "reform 'em" stance
  • Main game modes aren't infested with bots and scripters, Valve actually seems to care about keeping them away
  • Public chat rooms delineated by region, even down to the city level
  • The Arcade system has all the silly game modes you could possibly want, and players can build their own.
  • Individual unlockables for champions (not just overall skins, but individual pieces of their look like weapons or clothes)
  • Esports streaming uses the replay system but includes commentary and camera direction and is in the main client
  • Built-in mentoring system
  • Built-in champion build guides
  • Better bots for AI matches - they're actually a challenge at max difficulty and have user-customizable scripts (that can chat, to humorous effect)
  • Turrets are actually substantial objectives rather than speed bumps
  • Skin components are user-designed. It's not a free-for-all, but there are regular design competitions
  • No snowball meta
  • Information isn't hidden from players for specious conduct reasons. You can actually see your MMR.

Things that are debatable

  • DOTA is a much more complex game at the end of the day. There are more mechanics (day/night cycle, high ground, courier, denies, secret shop, and more) and **many ** more active-use items.
  • Being a jerk in DOTA consigns you to the low priority queue, not banishment.
  • Skin wagering on esports matches
  • No persistent/pregame builds like summoner spells or runes/masteries. Your champion build is all you have.

Things League does better than Dota

  • Turret range actually makes sense
  • Patch notes actually explain why they're doing what they're doing (DOTA just drops the numbers on you)
  • Community engagement (even if it's just talking, not listening)
  • Faster queue times
  • Better lore, even with the recent gut/rewrite
TheCodeisCupCake3 votes

No, the bots are retarded, completely and utterly retarded, ive been fucked over by 'Mark' bot way too many times cause the idiot is going to 'push mid' my ass dumb bot just runs half way and comes back to top when i die

Fairyfleur3 votes

One of the most annoying things in league is the lack of gamemodes that aren't SR, ARAM, TT, and the rotation of modes that isn't even up all the time. some smaller games have two times the fun-oriented game modes while still managing good queue times. Like, what?

Enjutsu1 votes

Some points seem questionable here:

  • LPQ for leavers and toxic assholes keeps them out of games played by civil folks better than Riot's unrealistic "reform 'em" stance

all competetive games are known for theyr toxicity, whenever i see any talk regarding league or dota both are mentioned as jsut as toxic. and while form what OP here mentioned it does seem dota handles afk better, league does punishish leavers too.

  • Main game modes aren't infested with bots and scripters, Valve actually seems to care about keeping them away

this one especially is questionable for me, personally i've never met a scripter(or at least havent tried to look for one as an excuse for my loss), seen some threads people pointing out how someone is a scripter. i heard TT normals get bots, but never seen one in SR. i admit Ai games have bots, but those are jsut ai games. Also im not too sure about Valves abilitys to handle scripters, i've seen people complaining quite alot about scripters in CSGO.

  • No snowball meta

the way OP described game it sounds like they have oppostite problem of that.

Flyinguillotine2 votes

Although both games are toxic to a degree, dota is much better in my experience. Largely because all the jerks have to go off and play with each other instead of bothering the kind majority.

The Lexer3 votes

I would argue that League's graphics are better but everything else I agree with

Akali is SO HOT8 votes

I've only played Dota a handful of times, but I remember that they seemed to handle RNG fairly well despite having a hefty amount of it in the game. Sometimes it can be bullshit, but it isn't all that bad once you get used to it and, overall, isn't too bad to deal with. The RNG isn't really all that bad in League (Crit Chance could use some work and Tryndamere as well), but it can be annoying sometimes.

Doctor Dyment3 votes

Chaos Knight makes me cry. Ogre Magi makes me double cry. Why is it when I play Chaos Knight all my stuns are the lowest they can be and when the enemy does I get smashed? A conspiracy I tell you.

Penns8 votes

I installed dota yesterday to see if theres some fun hero things, then I missed 3 auto attacks in a row and stopped playing lel

D357R0Y3R4 votes

that's what you get for playing a ranged hero, they get 25% missing rate from low ground

melees are manly in dota, play them

Penns3 votes

But puck looks like Fizz :(

D357R0Y3R3 votes

in game wise slark is closer to fizz both are some fish and both dodge as many spells as they want

Penns1 votes

I played that guy too, but why cant his W jump to where my mouse is? I aint playing Riven :(

D357R0Y3R3 votes

because else he would have no counterplay Dodging slark's W by knowing the direction he's facing is the only thing you can do

the dude is able to remove almost all spells in the game, as well as having true invisibility for 4 seconds, his passive makes him able to steal armor,hp,mana,attack speed, damage amplification, on each attacks

if we couldn't dodge his leash that prevents you from moving for 3.5 seconds you would have no way to answer to him

Penns2 votes

no counterplay

Thats what I want from an assassin in dota tho hehe

Guess I just gotta become best Slark/Puck 2trick euw until Rito reverts Fizz lel

nyx assassin and that terrorblade dude look opieop too tho summoner 4

Jet Sett2 votes

The counterplay is quite hit or miss (literally in some cases) Depending on who your team has and who the enemy has it is very possible that a hero comes in that no one has an answer for. For example, without sufficent AOE damage or in combat mobility Slark can end up very strong and nearly unstoppable due to his ultimate making him impossible to target and his stat stealing.

A good pub stomping assassin would be Phantom Assassin. She has I believe 50% dodge chance in one of her passives and it makes her icon not show up on the minimap (you can still see her if you look) and her ranged Q would make Gangplank jealous with its absurd range and her massive crit damage.

Karunamon2 votes

That's about positioning. There are steps going down into the river, so if you're standing in the river, you're "below" the lane, and you'll start missing AAs unless you either move up or have the range to stand on the other side so you're level.

The same applies to the steps right below your base. I think it's a 25% miss rate when you're on low ground.

flibitydoo1 votes

so how do I position myself on that painted eyeball hill that has no pathing so I don't miss 6 consecutive autos on that ward and give up and then have a team mate miss one auto after I whiffed all of mine and then have them give up?

Bloodfish2 votes

Well my friend you lie right here, you know a little but not much. It was patched more then year ago so you now won’t miss when attacking wards from low ground

flibitydoo1 votes

Actually the last time I played a bunch of dota 2 was about two years ago and since then I haven't bothered re-installing.

I think the last thing I did was dip in to play a venomancer game when wukong was new but the game still suffered from "every game decided in hero selection-you lose to base stats with no actual gameswinging plays"

AR URF6 votes

Really we just don't want snowbally games where the first tower dies within 10 minutes. That's not fun.

Doctor Dyment5 votes

I feel League could potentially have the opposite thing Dota has. Dota's towers deal almost no damage but are incredibly difficult to take down. Perhaps League could be the other way around, high damage with the current survivability they have. In all honesty that may be a terrible idea, but still. Any change helps.

JPLangley2 votes

[deleted]

WardBaronFFS1 votes

Um that inhib turret and nexus turret stuff would encourage stupidly long games.....As a Yorick main I've seen teams without a split pusher have trouble taking one 3k hp turret with minions let alone 2 50k hp turrets.....All these tower buffs would do is kick early game out of the meta and have end game scalers take over, why because it would take a team atleast around 7 minutes of straight seiging to take out one of those nexus turrets, with a split pusher like yorick and a split pusher like nasus it would take them around 5 minutes of straight seiging to take out that bloody inhib turret....The game would be so fucked with these stats. I would say the best way to get rid of early game snow balling is to lower gold from kills, get rid of items like dark seal or mejais, and increase tower AI (aka tower attacks the real threat when you are getting dived instead of the full tank maokai who engaged you it would attack the katarina thats doing the damage to you).

GentlemanGhidora5 votes

Whatever you do, Riot, DON’T copy their shop display. I can never find what I want in any reasonable time frame. Stupidly small text and icons and I couldn’t easily figure out the build paths without going every which way to confirm.

Almighty3 votes

Let us not forget the fact that 90% of the abilities in DOTA are point-and-click.

People still criticize Ryze for having a point-and-click root which is difficult to play against. Well, in DOTA, you will see abilities like this all the time. Point-and-click knockups, stuns, silences, knockbacks, DOTA has it all. I imagine that people who say things like Lulu's Polymorph is a no-brain click-to-win ability will not survive even a single PvP in DOTA. And just for the record, an exact copy of Polymorph exists in that game too.

[sg-lulu]

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

D357R0Y3R9 votes

because dota has tools to deal with point and click spells

they're called linken's sphere that is a banshee on 13 sec cd (only works on point and click) and the disjoinct mechanic, where blinking and going out of sight removes the projectiles

Bârd3 votes

  1. Not even close to 90%. They don't avoid point and click spells as much as League does, but just as many spells are skillshots, ground target, or passives.

  2. There's also spell immunity, dispels, and spell block in Dota, which lets you ignore those.

Barcid3 votes

The RNG in this game is something to complain about because there are actually games that minimize RNG. HotS does a great job of this while keeping auto-attacking champions relevant by giving them manticore - basically, attack someone a set number of times, your next auto on them does increased damage.

Unfortunately League already threw their hat deep into the RNG pool when they already put empowered autos over attacks in champion kits to begin with (and we're talking so deep it's their identity). They'd have to do another ADC rehaul to finally ditch such awful RNG, and we all know how that'll go (fucking terribly).

Rockman1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Towers may be too weak in league right now, but you do NOT want them to be exceedingly difficult to destroy. That's how it is in Dota. It's all too common an occurrence in Dota for one team to stomp for the first 30 minutes but get stuck at the enemy T3 turrets and stalled to 70 minutes, likely losing the game in the process due to getting outscaled. Being unable to end the game due to an unstoppable turtle is just cancer.

if they could turtle you've fucked up your picks or you weren't actually stomping.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

if they could turtle you've fucked up your picks or you weren't actually stomping.

Can't you argue the same in this game?

"If you can't stop bleeding out, you fucked up too hard early so stop whining for Riot to compensate for your feeding spree."

Rockman1 votes

{quoted}

Can't you argue the same in this game?

"If you can't stop bleeding out, you fucked up too hard early so stop whining for Riot to compensate for your feeding spree."

no

Choking enemy carries out of money is critical in Dota 2. If you're "stomping" and can't finish, you either weren't actually stomping and the carry got his farm, or you were but you don't have a way to close the game without a 5 man wipe because you picked shit heroes.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

no

Choking enemy carries out of money is critical in Dota 2. If you're "stomping" and can't finish, you either weren't actually stomping and the carry got his farm, or you were but you don't have a way to close the game without a 5 man wipe because you picked shit heroes.

I mean, I had 2 games just now where we stomped early and threw in the latter half of the game because my team mates got lost in how they were fighting and didn't realize the enemy had scaling picks. You guys complain about not having comebacks and shit in League, but can't people that play League do the SAME THING you just described for DotA in their own way and build a comp/item build with a comeback plan?

The answer is yes, so it does go both ways.

Rockman1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, I had 2 games just now where we stomped early and threw in the latter half of the game because my team mates got lost in how they were fighting and didn't realize the enemy had scaling picks. You guys complain about not having comebacks and shit in League, but can't people that play League do the SAME THING you just described for DotA in their own way and build a comp/item build with a comeback plan?

The answer is yes, so it does go both ways.

no

you build a comp with a specific idea and characters

if I play Deathball with Sven and the enemy team doesn't have anything to stop that I SHOULD win the game. The only reason people like to claim Dota 2 has stalling is because PUB players play against Techies/Nature's Prophet/Tinker but they don't choose to do anything to solve the problems they make.

chipndip13 votes

{quoted}

no

you build a comp with a specific idea and characters

if I play Deathball with Sven and the enemy team doesn't have anything to stop that I SHOULD win the game. The only reason people like to claim Dota 2 has stalling is because PUB players play against Techies/Nature's Prophet/Tinker but they don't choose to do anything to solve the problems they make.

That's still the exact same thing.

If I pick an early game champ, and play into my advantages well, that should open up my chance to win, which will be earlier in the game rather than later.

If you pick a late game champ, but play into your fallback plan, that should open up your chance to come back into the game.

It's not like League doesn't have this. The issue is that people that play League don't play it like it's a competitive, strategic game.

Durzaka1 votes

Thats not true at all.

League USED to have late game and early game champions.

But the game is too fast and snowballing right now that you either cant reach your goal as a late game scaling champion, or that late game scaling actually happens mid game (as seen with ADCs and their 2-2 1/2 item spike now because it is so fucking cheap).

Towers are also amde of tissue paper in League, so when you ARE bleeding out and getting beaten, you have very little available to you to actually staunch the flow of blood and save yourself, giving yourself time to recover.

Dont pretend that people dont play league that its a competitive game, thats utter bullshit. Games in Challenger are averaging like 22 minutes right now, are you gonna say they don't know any strategy?

Handin Out Naps1 votes

Stop talking about challenger. Those are good players that know how to end games. Everyone that complains about this shit is low elo and averages 30 minute games. They just need to learn how to actually play from behind and not feed dumb deaths.

Karunamon2 votes

The fact that pro player games are ending in 20 minutes is more damning of the snowball meta than anything.

Handin Out Naps1 votes

Well they arent averaging 20 minutes so you can stop saying that.

Durzaka1 votes

Except that games at the top tier of play (including pro play) are ended at 20 minutes shows a fuck of a lot more than someone in Bronze 5 playing for 35 minutes.

They only play that long because they still don't know how to close out a game.

The game is a shitfest of snowballing right now, and the top tier of play shows that.

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