No, I feel like I was oom from wave clearing even though Zed's pushing just as hard I feel like I needed to get something other than Zhonya's so I could wave clear. I feel like if Zed was in a bad spot, he could jump a screen away and I wouldn't be able to follow. I feel like Zed was able to poke me down and I wasn't able to retaliate. I feel like Zed didn't outplay me, rather he outkitted me.
Auryiel114 votesI mean, you got outpicked... You didn't pick Zed ;P
deadlychuck57 votesThis is league right now. Outpicked
Adrian Blackbear31 votesThat's a shame that League matches can literally come down to the picks and bans phase.
Rew71113 votesWell, when in doubt, pick Vladimir. His W will actually evade Zed's ultimate giving Vlad no damage during the attack and afterwards. I was only able to do this once or twice but it was funny watching the enemy Zed say "Vlad too OP".
OctoberIV2 votes[deleted]
LeeDark7 votesHow? I'm no fan of Zed, but there is pretty much NOTHING he can do against Vlad. Poke him down? Vlad heals it back. Out push him? lolno. Force him to use up all his... mana? Nope. Assassinate him? Nope, his pool will pretty much ONLY be used to avoid that.
Kingsgrave2 votesHow? I'm no fan of Zed, but there is pretty much NOTHING he can do against Vlad. Poke him down? Vlad heals it back. Out push him? lolno. Force him to use up all his... mana? Nope. Assassinate him? Nope, his pool will pretty much ONLY be used to avoid that.
Yeah but Zed contributes far more to a teamfight and a team in general than Vlad.
Vlad will just autofarm all game but thats his only real strength. He is easier to gank in general than Zed and is pretty bad at roaming compared to Zed. He has no mobility or nuking for teamfights and offers just as little peel as Zed does. If Vlad is vs Zed the Zed player knows that his team has a better and more relevant mid laner.
LeeDark4 votesOnly one of those is actually true. He is not easier to gank than Zed; both are very slippery in mid. If anything, Vlad is harder to gank because he is rarely, if ever, going to use his escape offensively. His ult is FAR more teamfight friendly than Zed. What Zed offers as an assassin is the ability to jump on the ADC and quickly kill them, and granted, Vlad offers no CC to stop this from happening. Vlad also does not roam as well as Zed, but he can easily punish Zed's roam by pushing the tower.
Would I rather have Zed as my mid in most situations? Yes. He is overall a stronger pick and brings a lot to the table. If the enemy has Zed, though, Vlad quickly jumps to the top of my list of mids I want on my team.
revliledpembroke11 votesWas in a normal as Brand against Zed once....was told my stun was "so unfair." My response? "HOW IS MY ONE POSSIBLE, SKILLSHOT RELIANT, CC UNFAIR COMPARED TO YOU, ZED, THE MASTER OF HOPS????" He shut up after that,
Kingsgrave6 votes[{quoted}](name=Adrian Blackbear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lZjM4QyZ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-08T00:56:15.061+0000)
That's a shame that League matches can literally come down to the picks and bans phase.
Still a lot less terrible than Dota in that regard
RanmanReborn3 votesYou sound like you have no idea how DotA is played.
Kingsgrave12 votesYou sound like you have no idea how DotA is played.
Almost all balance put into counterpicks and item choices. At least thats what Ive heard from friends of mine that have played the game for years and years.
Auz the Ripper2 votesThat's what gives DotA such good viable pick diversity No matter how OP something is, there's always sometime else in the game that can stop it
Kingsgrave6 votes[{quoted}](name=Auz the Ripper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lZjM4QyZ,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-08T07:11:15.955+0000)
That's what gives DotA such good viable pick diversity No matter how OP something is, there's always sometime else in the game that can stop it
I prefer League's system, even if they half ass the execution, where every character can basically counterplay every other character. I really dislike things being decided by champion select.
Dota still decides things that way and you are forced to build a certain way to combat things, and more things to combat someone else building something to combat your countering of their combatting countering.
In an ideal system items would only exist for playstyles and there would be no real hard counters to anything.
LeeDark2 votesRight, that's why it is NEVER about the picks and bans phase. You got counterpicked by something you weren't expecting? There's probably an item for that. Got a carry who's vulnerable and needs farm? Trilane that shit. Counterpicked mid? Stack camps and make up the difference there.
If this season of LoL is supposed to be about strategic diversity, Riot should take a page from the book of DotA. Hell, they should take the whole book; DotA has metric tons worth of strategic diversity.
Kingsgrave6 votesRight, that's why it is NEVER about the picks and bans phase. You got counterpicked by something you weren't expecting? There's probably an item for that. Got a carry who's vulnerable and needs farm? Trilane that shit. Counterpicked mid? Stack camps and make up the difference there.
If this season of LoL is supposed to be about strategic diversity, Riot should take a page from the book of DotA. Hell, they should take the whole book; DotA has metric tons worth of strategic diversity.
Honestly there must be a better way to achieve that than what Dota does. I for one dislike rock paper scissors game design.
It should be "against Zed play like this instead of that" not "against zed buy this item and nullify him completely otherwise you auto lose." The former being the League concept that Riot sucks at executing and the latter is Dota.
LeeDark3 votesDotA isn't just "Buy this item and completely nullify the champion." That's actually Riot's answer to Zed. "Just buy Zhonya's."
In DotA, in fact, there aren't any items that would really counter Zed... except maybe DotA's better version of Thornmail. Dota, however, has more options in items, so that mages can have armor without relying solely on one item to provide it. It has more options in the jungle, so that stacking and farming becomes a viable alternative to a lane you are getting trounced in.
Basically, in DotA, it isn't about Rock, Paper, Scissors. (Well, it is, sort of, just like League is, too.) If you picked a good champ you are comfortable with, getting counterpicked isn't the end of the world. In League, you don't get many options. It's have the jungler camp or be severely lacking in farm. (Unless you are the oh-so-important Marksman, in which case you get to demand that another member of your team suffer from lack of farm just so you have an easier time.)
Narasimha2 votesIn DotA, in fact, there aren't any items that would really counter Zed.
Just to jump in... Halbred would cripple Zed. Manta Style would throw him off, and it MIGHT despell his ult. Crimson Guard would vastly reduce his damage. Blade Mail would be hilarious. Shadow Blade would force Zed to invest in vision which is never cheap. Orchid is pretty obvious. Etheral Blade and Ghost Scepter screw him over as well. And of course you can always Chicken staff him or Whirlwind yourself.
CrazedPorcupine35 votes"When you SURVIVE ZED, You feel like you.."
A) Got Lucky B) Outplayed Zed C) Burned all of my huge cooldowns just so that Zed can kill me as soon as his ult comes back up so I'm unable to retaliate.
Pastramka2 votesMake a new thread like this with a poll! sure B will = 0 .
Per Favore29 votesIt just doesn't feel fun to play against zed because of his resources and his kit. Basically right now if you killed Zed its because he just can't play Zed, or he messed up really really bad on some aspect of that particular play. It has to be a really big screw up because of how much leniency on bad fights his kit gives him. I get the design philosophy of difficulty being rewarded but it shouldn't ever be at the point where if someone does everything right you just can't beat them no matter what
Galgus5 votes[{quoted}](name=Free Nexus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lZjM4QyZ,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2015-02-08T00:46:08.218+0000)
It just doesn't feel fun to play against zed because of his resources and his kit. Basically right now if you killed Zed its because he just can't play Zed, or he messed up really really bad on some aspect of that particular play. It has to be a really big screw up because of how much leniency on bad fights his kit gives him. I get the design philosophy of difficulty being rewarded but it shouldn't ever be at the point where if someone does everything right you just can't beat them no matter what
I think people tend to conflate a high skill ceiling with a champion requiring skill to play, forgetting that they may have an easy skill floor as well.
In my opinion that is the source of that defense for Lee Sin and Zed.
mjack3328 votesDude's like Lee Sin. Too much mobility and utility in his role. I've clobbered bad zed players, but if I'm mid against a good zed i am going to have quite a bit of trouble. It's too easy for him to escape, roam, clear, or do anything else I'm supposed to be preventing him from doing because it's too dangerous for me to leave my tower and someone keeps feeding him elsewhere :(.
Guy Fox Teemo3 votesDon't be saying Lee Sin or Zed have to much mobility when Leblanc, Has 4 dam escapes, since she can W and R, and both can go back and fourth. And her backing to it has unlimited range.
missinggrave28 votesShe also has mana, needs one of those two abilities to burst someone down, isn't able to easily take towers, can't take spell vamp while Zed can take life steal, can only take one person down in a team fight assuming she isn't CC'd, and doesn't have any steroids to her kit. While she may be strong, LeBlanc has HEAVY limitations to her kit that allows her to be balanced. She's great at some things, bad at others. That's why we don't really complain about her anymore.
aperson125 votesQuote source?
I wholly agree though. Zhonya's/QSS doesn't COUNTER Zed's burst per se, it just negates his ult. If he has the items and he's still in range to Q/E/auto you after it's over you're still dead. No outplay involved.
M0b1us17 votesOP? That is questionable at best. Overloaded? That is an understatement.
Javvek14 votesAgreed. Fighting a half decent zed is like trying to scale a wall covered in grease. I can skirt and dodge all the skillshots I want but at the end of the day my towers down to 20% hp while his is at 100% and hes roaming while I struggle, oom, to hold the wave back.
I end up playing a lot of velkoz or veigar against him. His ult makes him predictable so you can nuke his face off when he initializes it.
Blue Moon Wolf14 votesMeanwhile, at the Mana Users United (M.U.U.) meeting:
: DAMN IT, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT ZED!
: don't worry, I got our most toxic champs on the case:
: I don't see this going over to well .__.
patch 5.4: all poison removed from game.
Cardboard III11 votesA champion's skill requirement is not a reason to make the champion inherently better.
Crede7773 votesNot according to Riot. With numerous champions, including season 2 Cassiopeia and then Lee Sin, they say these are "high skill cap" champions and as such tend to be stronger.
At first I believed them and actually bought in to the "this is a tough champion, this is an easy champion," but after a few years I've come to realize that there's no such thing. Champion mechanics aren't all that difficult, it all comes down to positioning, timing, and awareness. So yeah I think Riot needs to abandon the view that certain champions are more difficult than others (and as a result some can be stronger than others), but I doubt they will.
exiledFromBadmen6 votesBut they reworked and 
; nerfed 
, 
; and removed DFG(So some high skill cap APC's hit very bad, e.g 
) and nerfed 
(
, )
Some high skill cap champions are getting changed, but those dudes (
, 
) always remain untouched. IDK why
Matezoide11 votesSince i play immobile champions, i very rarely feel outplayed when Zed, Lee Sin, Kalista, etc, kills me.
Simply because, odds are, i was murdered with zero counter-play for daring to be out of position for half a second, while these champs get to do stupid ass shit with zero consequences because muh mobility.
When i kill them, it always feels like luck or that the other guy was a fucking moron.
Mooing Kev6 voteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGlvSBz4QOA Just wanted to leave this here.
X SkeletonCandy51 voteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGlvSBz4QOA Just wanted to leave this here.
Wow one instance of a pro doing something good.
Obviously this means Zed isn't annoying as fuck to play against and doesn't ruin games.
NauticalNonsense44 votesBest part was, the pro almost lost that fight.
Albireo3 votesBest part was, the pro almost lost that fight.
Easyhoon is a pro too...and a really good one, he could be the first mid laner of almost any team beside SKT T1... (not defending Zed or Ahri, but people just forget how awesome Easyhoon is.
Knight SoIaire 2 votesespecialy when ahri is the only champion that can effectively create a gap beetwen her and zed
zed vs ahri is the only skill matchup since those guys are prety similar (ahri uses mana so its fine for her to have op skillset) but if he would pick oriana what would he do ? look as the other pro just ults through the ball and proceeds to eat him ?
Ariel the Cruel3 votesespecialy when ahri is the only champion that can effectively create a gap beetwen her and zed . zed vs ahri is the only skill matchup since those guys are prety similar (ahri uses mana so its fine for her to have op skillset)
Knight SoIaire 3 votesplayed it either you take exshaust or you lack the dmg and cooldowns to effectively keep him in check
just like any apc she suffers from being unable to keep up with mana
oerall she is pesky for zed but matchup can still fawour him (especialy when qqs is actualy good pick on zed unlike any other champion)
Ariel the Cruel5 votesLiss is a known counter to Zed.
Her Q functions as harass and wave clear. She has above average defense stats. Her instant cast root prevents him from jumping on her pre-6. Her ult prevents him from jumping on her post-6.
If he pushes in her lane, she can just free farm under tower; since diving her is a death sentence. If he uses his shadow for harass, she can claw in and CC him into oblivion. If he uses it for an escape without making it under tower, she'll just catch up to him with her claw.
And her free spells go a long way towards keeping up with his energy costs.
And if Lissandra is building assassin (less likely now that DFG is gone): her assassination pattern counters Zed's. Since she's able to deny him his mobility while she kills him.
Knight SoIaire 2 votesHer Q functions as harass and wave clear. She has above average defense stats. Her instant cast root prevents him from jumping on her pre-6. Her ult prevents him from jumping on her post-6
let me list 2 problems that are my main argument for why even lissandra has a hard time
1)lisandra pays with mana 2)lissandras ult has longer cooldown(thats hte main issue that zed can play around)
on top of lissandra having equal range with zed's q only when zed intentionaly stands in the creep vave
And her free spells go a long way towards keeping up with his energy costs.
she cant keep up with the spam, if zed conserves his energy its fine
when we speak about mana starving the mages people forget that letting zed push you to tower gives safety but takes away your farm, if you want to get your cs you will drain that ana pool out
And if Lissandra is building assassin (less likely now that DFG is gone): her assassination pattern counters Zed's. Since she's able to deny him his mobility while she kills him.
personaly wouldnt advise it on a short ranged mage whos actual speciality is cc not burst (i dont deny she has burst) thiis just gives zed an advantage in teamfights since someone else might take lissandra on or force her ult down
also you forget one thing that realy breaks lissandra here qq's actualy fits zeds build this time, i never saw zed build it, even when i played lissandra vs him but i realy wouldnt like to see it
Misplaced Faith2 votesLook at it this way, Because Easyhoon and Faker are pros, they know how to pick efficiently, and counter pick efficiently. Faker probably picked Ahri for that exact reason, because she had an effective way to close the gap between her and Zed, or because it's easier for her to get away from any auto attacks he might throw out. Honestly, it's all a matter of counterpicking and outpicking.
Direwolfiez14 votesIf Morg hadn't shown up and Exhausted Zed, there was no way Faker would have survived that.
Celeste Benal2 votesOh hell no. She was dead. D-E-D, dead. If Morgana hadn't come in there and finished it, Ahri was dead. Game over. At very least Zed won that fight and likely lane. But apparently, having someone else come in and save your bacon is now #LCSbigPlays
Galgus4 votesWhen Zed kills me, I feel like he pressed all his buttons on me.
If I had to lane against him I'm probably annoyed by the combination of that burst and his manaless harass and decent escape potential - not to mention a great passive for easy farming.
1999 01 171 votescouldn't you play one of the mages good at wave clearing like malz or morg
hobomann211 votesthen be OOM about 30 seconds later? no thanks
