Anyone else tired of this LCS diversity ?

Yi Bencheikh··35 votes·2,214 views

i mean
Vladimir Gragas RekSai Taliyah Jhin every match ? wtf ... ?

48 Comments

DaBaiXiong18 votes

What are you talking about? Riot nerfed a bunch of champions so the pros wouldn't pick them. They did it on purpose so they'd pick somebody else.

You know.. fucking up the entire game for the rest of us.

On purpose. Cuz you know.. variety.

specter4247 votes

those champs are still getting picked

specter42412 votes

what diversity

Yi Bencheikh1 votes

champion diversity

OneMustFall4 votes

{quoted}

champion diversity

You mean lack of diversity.

Miku Append2 votes

That's the joke.

lolipopevelynn9 votes

{quoted}

i mean
Vladimir Gragas RekSai Taliyah Jhin every match ? wtf ... ?

its riots fault. i swear to you that they leave certain champs untouched or buff certain champs so that they can be played in LCS. this is especially true for new champs. kled is gonna get a buff and he will be played/spammed at worlds. guarantee you it. for teammplay his ult is too broken.

Ormylar2 votes

What I find funny is that Riot nerfed Sivir's ult because they felt it made teamfight engagements too strong. Then they release Kled. [zombie-brand-clap]

TNHA Baritone1 votes

i swear to you that they leave certain champs untouched or buff certain champs so that they can be played in LCS.

Karma

The shield RE ap ratio buff earlier int he season was beyond unnecessary.

Bârd1 votes

Are you kidding me?

Almost ALL the buffs they gave Karma were unnecessary.

They just kept piling on higher numbers until she was just so powerful that no one cared how boring she was, they just wanted to get that sweet LP with their trio queue.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

Uh....there was only one major buff this season. The others were mana and cdr changes on her W which had outlier-like CDR and Mana Costs for being her least used spell and it was mainly due to the FQC nerf

...

You are...misinformed.

Anyways, even with such an awkward buff, Karma still isn't cancerous as many other LCS-meta champions are.

Bârd1 votes

I'm not talking about just this season. All changes, large and small, accumulate.

Just look at her patch history; the pattern of needless buffs is old, much older than just one season.

Ever since her relaunch, every single patch that directly changed Karma was a net buff. Patch 6.15 is the first set of direct nerfs she has had since her rework. In all the time I have been playing, I have never seen Karma be weak. Unpopular and a bit dull, perhaps, sometimes overshadowed, but never a bad champion.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

Those 'needless buffs' (assuming that we are going to exclude the 6.6 one) have never made her stand out. They also have pretty good reasoning behind them too so I wouldn't say they were needless. Those small buffs never greatly impacted Karma's spells.

A good portion of her buffs were bug fixes and small Qol changes on her spells pre-rework. The other portion was to put her reworked form up to par with riot's vision for her since it failed and is still failing (which has been acknowledged by Meddler). The semi-rework (removal of shield bomb, more effective passive and w can go on monsters) was more of a shift in identity rather than a flat out buff. While it did help her and still does, it only specifically does that due to the metas which never have been anti-karma. Which brings us the mana regen and cdr on W buffs...which are nothing to blink at as they were compensation buffs.

Trogmar6 votes

This weekend had to be the most boring match up yet. Really tired of seeing only 3 junglers. Thank the stars meteos got a Zac game in.

Treune812 votes

{quoted}

This weekend had to be the most boring match up yet. Really tired of seeing only 3 junglers. Thank the stars meteos got a Zac game in.

Very true.Especially jungle pool.Generally 3 or 4 champions.Elise, Gragas, Reksai are oppressive picks.

Thanks once again Meteos.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Kinda blew it with the full-scale tilt.

Madra6 votes

Jhin doesn't need nerfs; he needs some of his overloaded mechanics literally stripped from his kit- reducing his numbers isn't going to solve much of anything. The others could all get by with number tweaks.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

Jhin doesn't need nerfs; he needs some of his overloaded mechanics literally stripped from his kit- reducing his numbers isn't going to solve much of anything. The others could all get by with number tweaks.

yeah its fun being able to get 1k+ crit on every auto and some crazy shit like 2k crits on the fourth. is it not enough he has so much ad to be able to do damage as a ranged caster and an adc. but lets give him an execute so he can kill tanks from 30% hp to 0.

SlashStriker4 votes

interesting how every LCS player loves the same champions

Treune813 votes

You forgot other picks. Cassiopeia Lissandra Malzahar are strong picks.

Glaedr3 votes

I'll never understand people that casually watch top level gameplay then complain that only ~30% of the champions are picked. These past few weeks alone across all regions I've seen Ashe Braum Caitlyn Ekko Elise Fiora Gangplank Gnar Kalista Karma Kassadin Kindred AurelionSol Leblanc Lissandra Lucian Malzahar Riven Ryze Shen Sivir Syndra TahmKench Taric Trundle TwistedFate Varus Velkoz Zed plus the ones you listed and maybe a few others, but I guess there's no diversity because we only get about 35-40 at any given time out of 132.

Anidan9 votes

5 heroes went unpicked at DotA's last International. Lina, Leshrac, Treant Protector, Visage, and Bloodseeker. That's seriously all of them.

League has several problems competitively speaking: enforced metas, purposely rotating balance (oh what was that, "Sejuani had her time in the spotlight", was it?) and trying to balance low level play and high level play simultaneously, which has so far proven to be something that it seems like very few games can pull off successfully - and League isn't one of them (neither is DotA2, but they picked their side and so it's up to low-tier players to grow into the balance as opposed to balance being wrapped around them).

So compared to other games, no. This is lackluster variety in a forced stagnant meta.

Leetri1 votes

You can't compare League to Dota2 when it comes to this. Dota2's entire gameplay is based on hard-countering and picking specific strategies, that naturally increases the number of picks. Someone picks X? Then you pick Y, which makes X useless. So they pick Z which makes Y useless, etc. League has soft-counters, which means people will play what is the strongest at the moment. The only way to get Dota 2 levels of pick rates is to rebalance the entire game to have hard-counters or to balance the game so extremely perfect every single champion is exactly as strong as the others.

Sona x Rubick2 votes

axe hard counters dazzle

watch ti, and tell me why axe was played in almost every game despite dazzle not being here

oh right, because he brings a 3.2 seconds galio ulti on a basic spell (without channeling).

the pros don't give a fuck about hard countering, they just pick heroes with their niches and try to do wombo combo with the heroes (axe+elder titan ulti)

Atanchan1 votes

... Because you can design a game around hard counters without making said hard counters literally useless without what they counter being around?

Nobody says that doto has one-dimensional heroes. I mean it does, like basically all of them, but at least their kits and such have a lot of dimension to them.

Sona x Rubick1 votes

i know that there are hard counters, axe was picked against dazzle a lot. But what i'm saying is that this isn't the whole reason dota showed so much heroes picked.

heck ancient apparition was picked like 10% of the time healing heroes were picked.

Leetri1 votes

I specifically said "Dota2's entire gameplay is based on hard-countering and picking specific strategies". The only comparison League has are like a "protect the Kog'Maw" or a "tons of knock-ups for Yasuo" team. There's simply way more niche strategies available in Dota 2 because of how they designed the heroes.

NoRunesMasteries3 votes

You guys have to take it into account they're competing for Worlds and something they all want to get into... so they play repetitive champions who are OP in the meta?

If it's Ranked Queues I am sure they would play a lot of 'diverse' champions but granted something HUGE is on the line they don't want to risk it.

At times they will pull one or two new champions into the "diversity" but why risk a game when they can try their best and use something that win games.

daemonthane3 votes

I don't know a single person who actually watches LCS. I tried watching, it's like watching a car race, the guy with the best car wins. BOOOOORING. For a company who wants to make esports big, they sure are going small. I watch DOTA2 matches when I want excitement, this game has none of that, except when we unwashed masses are the ones playing. LOL will never lead the way into esports, but will always be the little forgotten brother struggling to sit at the big table.

Anidan4 votes

It feels like the biggest problem in League is forced metas (despite them saying they wouldn't strong-arm a meta change) and no real niches that champions can fill with hugely exploitable weaknesses. The lack of variety in the meta is particularly damning because that lets matches feel stagnant even if different champions are picked.

If we compare Lee (a versatile generalist) to, say, Windranger (the face of versatility in DotA2 alongside Invoker), Windranger has far more exploitable mechanics within her game than Lee does in his. Her CC is conditional to get any longevity, she only has movement speed increases for mobility unless she buys Blink Dagger and/or Force Staff, her primary defensive tool can be negated by an item (MKB in particular) and doesn't even affect spells, her primary damage is from auto-attacks which have numerous counters, and so on.

League champions feel far too generalist, which means that the only ones that are going to be picked at big tournaments are the rare champions that actually fill a niche that a team can use (Urgot vs. Zed mid to make Zed useless) or the champions that seamlessly fill a lot of needs at once while having better numbers than other champions that also do the same. League puts weaknesses into champions, but then, because this is a game of outplays, they also put in a counter to things that exploit their weaknesses.

Dr Poro2 votes

All of those have gotten nerfs between patch 6.16 and 6.18. Don't worry, I'm sure Worlds will offer more variety, or atleast a different set of variety.

ThePartyLeader2 votes

Allchampionsmatter

Urelles2 votes

Its like Marvel vs Capcom 2 again. Magneto, Cabel, Ryu ever game.

JerulEon2 votes

You also forgot Ekko Shen Gnar in the top lane but yeah it gets pretty stale.

Frius2 votes

total cancer 130 champs 10 picks total

XIII Vanitas1 votes

Gragas and RekSai are in every game because they're the only 2 tanky junglers that scale decently throughout the game and have good early game pressure thanks to their waveclear, sustain, mobility and cc.

Taliyah with a bunch of cdr can spam spells constantly and zone an entire team just by herself.

Jhin and Ashe have long range utility and good amounts of damage.

The only one I can't really explain is Vladimir.

WoonStruck1 votes

Grag and Rek are picked because they do well with pure HP since they heal based on it, so they don't have to back all the time.

Not only that, but they are general CC bots, and rek'sai is a glorified ward.

Both clear the jungle decently despite pure tank.

Both are extremely safe since they can clear walls easily, while also having pick potential for the same reason. Not only that, but it allows them to deep-ward safely.

Both can do decently when behind, because they have something to offer, while being some of the best early gankers and counter-engage champs in the game.

You can't really beat what they offer as far as junglers go in the competitive scene. They'd both have to be reworked in order to not be worth picking.


Taliyah isn't used all that often, really. Most mid-laners that are picked are because they have relatively safe waveclear, and a wide zone of influence. Taliyah is no exception. Her ult prevents reactions, same as Trundle's pillar, which is crucial in many cases.


Vlad is picked because he gets really tanky. He's not generally a first target, and he has insane bait potential. He has very good damage despite that, and is an AoE slow bot come mid-game. His damage amp is invaluable. Any time he's decent, he will be pick/ban in competitive solely because of his ult. Its a bonus that he essentially can't be forced out of lane if played well.


Jhin and Ashe are both very over-loaded atm as well.

Ashe doesn't trade damage for her utility like in the past. She's simply a better ADC all around than the majority of the roster. Now you only trade a little safety for that damage+utility.

Jhin is just really safe in the fact that he can spam deadly flourish for CC, can lay traps everywhere, and can use his ult to solidify a fight, even if he can't catch up, or use it to essentially disengage/turn a fight around relatively safely. Not to mention how many picks he can make due to those two factors. He's not really suffering anywhere :/

Bârd1 votes

Graggy is just the best all-round tank in the game, with his high damage, great disruption with Bodyslam and Cask, and high innate durability with happy hour and W. Rek stays in the game because her utility (tremorsense, tunnels, ult) makes up for her average fighting.

Taliyah is good because her wall is gamechanging.

Jhin and Ashe both deal a bit too much damage for how much utility they have.

Vlad is a tanky nuisance. With the combination of his Q, W, R, and Hourglass, he is difficult as hell to kill.

moonborn1 votes

It is what it is, 5 years ago we had like 50 champions. 5 years later we have over 120 champions, but the game stays 5v5 and bans stay at 6 also. there is a littel bit of diversity. but i think way more champions would work in LCS than people use now.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

That's why you see bullshit in the patch notes, they're trying to fix this.

WitchDooCtOR1 votes

Annie Anivia Amumu Aatrox Ahri Akali Azir Brand Corki Yorick Tryndamere Warwick Swain Singed Shyvana Quinn Rammus Nunu Orianna MasterYi Khazix Lux Katarina Karthus Kalista JarvanIV Galio Fizz Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger Garen Evelynn Draven

Bârd1 votes

Out of those, only Azir and Swain see competitive play (even for them, their popularity has tapered off recently).

Fliggy1 votes

So far I'm only getting tired of the jungle picks, I'm starting to hate reksai and gragas. The zac pick made me so happy.

TheDevice1 votes

It's a real shame honestly.

Some champions have the potential to be seen but Riot apparently just doesn't care for them as much.

When there are champions that just grant everything you want to a team. Some champions are seen for a while and are then gutted into oblivion yet some are still allowed to be the stars of pro play.

I don't think any champion has been played more in pro play than Gragas. I mean holy hell. He has everything.

Other "niche" picks are just champs who are not as good as the solid picks. XD wtf is even a niche pick? why? Why niche? whats the point? lol

Tea Enthusiast1 votes

P1 showed the best team in NA, how its done. That meta is just an option and doesn't have to be followed. As Bjerg said after that, they got caught off guard since they didn't practice. Pros only practice couple of matchups for lcs. If some other could bring his balls to the table and play something like that, they would win without a doubt.

Lushington1 votes

This song and dance again sigh. Its not Riots fault. The blame is soley on the players and their team analysts. They only play the top champs that they percieve are best. If Riot nerfs one then the next champ in line takes its place. Its the way its always been

Blanchimont1 votes

I liked the beginning of the season more. It felt like there was more champion diversity than the current point. I really hope to see an increase in champion diversity because it is boring watching them just fight over the same 3 or 4 champions all the time.

inplane1 votes

Taliyah's overbuffed Q and R are the only things that make her good. Get rid of the 50% bonus damage and she's off the radar in a heartbeat. It was our idea that we got rid of Lockout and made her easier to play. And what happens when a champ is easy to play yet has heavy roaming presence and insane waveclear?

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