Shen needs some help.

I GONNA FK ON U·Mar 9, 2015·64 votes·4,158 views

If Shen doesn't get MR per level because of his "free" shield, why does Riven get it with an even "free-er" shield?

83 Comments

cFlameMar 10, 201513 votes

IF they are willing to change Shen, they need to make him scale with health for his damage instead of AP. There is no such thing as AP Shen.

BlackMagicWilsonMar 10, 20155 votes

A LLLOOOONNNGGG time ago they tried to make ap items core on Shen by buffing his ap ratios. Needless to say, it didn't work. At all.

Baron of BreadMar 10, 20157 votes

His passive deals damage based on his max HP, so he does have some health scaling damage.

QuortMar 10, 20152 votes

I do like to build Rylai's Crystal Scepter sometimes. :O

voidterror1Mar 9, 201511 votes

They could fix the max-range e glitch where visuals happen but enemies are not taunted while they are at it...

KaishaMar 10, 20155 votes

Oh come now, Shen is not on the list of LCS approved champs, he's not eligible for fixes or buffs; only nerfs.

S H A Y C 0Mar 10, 20152 votes

a boy can dream....

blueberrypancakeMar 10, 20152 votes

he used to be LCS tier in Season 3

S H A Y C 0Mar 10, 20153 votes

Honestly when i first saw shen i fell in love, then i played him and while i had fun, he just doesnt seem to really do anything other than damage soak, and if thats all i am doing id rather play sion.

VesarixxMar 14, 20151 votes

Ever try him AD? He can work pretty well in the new jungle, item 3153 item 3078 item 3717 then all defense and you end up with a ton of health and some great burst and sustained damage.

BlackMagicWilsonMar 10, 201511 votes

"I have 4 ap ratios yet in a standard build I use none of them." - Shen

DUDE BROMar 11, 20151 votes

Alistar Leona Maokai

terkmcMar 11, 20151 votes

Maokai item 3027

VesarixxMar 14, 20151 votes

you can pretty much build anything on Shen because of that though, item 3116 is pretty great on him

Hirok0Mar 9, 20159 votes

Good point... Plus, its not like we HAVE to max shield first, which just hurts.

jv21blU7oDMar 10, 20157 votes

I really don't see why Shen cannot have MR Per level at this day and age.

ImpossibleGTMar 10, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I really don't see why Shen cannot have MR Per level at this day and age.

Because of Twisted Fate. His global ultimate was too strong so Riot knee-jerk nerfed all characters with anything resembling a global presence. Remember when Nocturne was an actual champion? Those were the days.

Remlap1223Mar 10, 20154 votes

Which really blows my mind because Galio has AP scaling on MR, and he STILL gets MR per level. Meanwhile Shen...

blueberrypancakeMar 10, 20152 votes

That was a buff a few months back because Galio players felt under appriated

Remlap1223Mar 11, 20151 votes

Actually no, it was a compensation buff for the nerf to item 3174 , which is a core item on Galio. Now, granted, Singed and Shen aren't building that, but you'd think Riot would at least give them MR scaling per level simply because they're melee?

CBosssMar 10, 20152 votes

RekSai trololololol

PraetorPrimeMar 10, 20154 votes

Shen's shield is awful. I'm hoping he gets some love soon. He needs attention!

Wil Kil 4 FoodMar 11, 20153 votes

Shen needs a lot of help. Just because he has a global ult doesn't mean he can splitpush, by the time he ults in, the battle is already won or lost. And his pushing potential is VERY slow. In team fights, late game, he's like singed, he's kind of a non-existant unkillable tank. You ignore their dmg, and focus on their carries. 1 taunt for 1 second over 8-12seconds isn't really anything to fret about.

MrPerson10Mar 9, 20152 votes

Riven's doesn't have a cost, true, but Riven also doesn't have built-in sustain.

RenailleMar 9, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Riven's doesn't have a cost, true, but Riven also doesn't have built-in sustain.

"HEALTH REGEN. 3.3 – 11.8"

MrPerson10Mar 9, 20155 votes

One of, if not the absolute, lowest health regen ratios in the game.

TerffMar 9, 20153 votes

once she gets one lifesteal item that means nothing.

MrPerson10Mar 9, 20151 votes

And yet you're essentially just putting forth my point; she has no built-in sustain and has to get a lifesteal item such as item 3077

I GONNA FK ON UMar 9, 20157 votes

{quoted}

And yet you're essentially just putting forth my point; she has no built-in sustain and has to get a lifesteal item such as

I still don't see your point. Riven has a shield that is better than Shen's both early game and in terms of scaling. Riven builds lifesteal in her core build, Shen doesn't. Shen may have innate sustain without items, but the game isn't all about what happens early game.

I GONNA FK ON UMar 9, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=I GONNA FK ON U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lQLrT0ZU,comment-id=000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-03-09T22:57:24.311+0000)

I still don't see your point. Riven has a shield that is better than Shen's both early game and in terms of scaling. Riven builds lifesteal in her core build, Shen doesn't. Shen may have innate sustain without items, but once Riven gets something with lifesteal it completely outsells Shen's sustain in every way. Also, the game isn't all about what happens early game. Most of Riven's kill potential is at lv6+.

MrPerson10Mar 9, 20152 votes

Take the early game out.

Riven has a massive splitpushing presence, Shen has a great deal of map presence considering his global, teleport anywhere you like any time you like, ult.

again, trade-off.

I GONNA FK ON UMar 9, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Take the early game out.

Riven has a massive splitpushing presence, Shen has a great deal of map presence considering his global, teleport anywhere you like any time you like, ult.

again, trade-off.

Riven's ult at rank 2 with a proper build has a ~40 second cooldown and gives her immense kill potential. Shen's is three minutes. There's a reason why I see Shen as often as I see Ryze. I don't want this to become a Riven vs. Shen thread as it's obvious which one is better in the current meta. My argument was that Riot's stance in removing Shen's scaling MR is based on the fact that he has a free shield is inconsistent.

S H A Y C 0Mar 10, 20152 votes

is it just me...or did you guys spend an awful lot of time talking about riven in a shen thread...

I GONNA FK ON UMar 9, 201512 votes

{quoted}

Riven's doesn't have a cost, true, but Riven also doesn't have built-in sustain.

Riven's shield gets stronger as she buys items since it scales with AD. Shen's doesn't.

MrPerson10Mar 9, 20151 votes

True, but that doesn't help her early game. Shen's shield is a big part of his early game.

I GONNA FK ON UMar 9, 201514 votes

{quoted}

True, but that doesn't help her early game. Shen's shield is a big part of his early game.

At rank 1, Riven's shield is 50% bigger than Shen's at rank 1, not factoring the 100% bonus AD ratio that Riven's gets, which can be anywhere from +10 to +25 depending on her runes, masteries and starting items. Shen's has a base amount and that's it unless he opts for an AP build.

MrPerson10Mar 9, 20151 votes

Riven doesn't have a lot of AD to begin with, but yes her shield is bigger - she's also more mobile.

Shen isn't nearly as mobile, but is far more tanky and does still have a shield with some built-in sustain.

It's a trade-off. At one point, Shen was by far a better general pick than Riven, people just like mobility over tankiness in most situations.

agbudarMar 10, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Riven doesn't have a lot of AD to begin with, but yes her shield is bigger - she's also more mobile.

Shen isn't nearly as mobile, but is far more tanky and does still have a shield with some built-in sustain.

It's a trade-off. At one point, Shen was by far a better general pick than Riven, people just like mobility over tankiness in most situations.

his tanky ness comes from building tanky and his base 30 mr comes from a time when Force of nature was still in the game and at that time he would build that item all the time "an acceptable" sacrifice

now since that item is gone and since health regen builds are pretty much NON EXISTANT. he can get his normal 30 mr + per level

same goes for singed.

riot puts way to much stress on his ult being sooooOO~~~ OP when it's not. i mean how useless is it when you turn a double kill for the enemy adc into a potential tripple kil?

AnidanMar 10, 20152 votes

but dat ulti.

It's a good ult, but not OP. Certainly not strong enough to gate his power this much, in my opinion. Personally, I'd just like to see a rise in some other champions again. Not saying the current batch is bad, but variety is the spice of life, y'know?

CrettMar 9, 20152 votes

And what's even the POINT of the heal on his Q it's hardly even there

Baron of BreadMar 10, 20152 votes

I have always felt it was pretty substantial in lane. Really helps to have that extra sustain.

cFlameMar 10, 20151 votes

One thing I could see, is taking away the shared healing with allies normally, and strengthening it normally for Shen himeself. And with each rank in his ultimate, it becomes shared healing for a closer % to what it currently is.

LakegaMar 10, 20152 votes

Just gonna put this out there. I'm actually surprised Shen isn't buffed more, and given the Olaf treatment in a sense with stupid logic concerning why he has to be pushed face down in the mud.

I mean, you'd think his ult despite Riot thinking it's SOOOOOO OP (when it's not) could still result in some nice #LCSBIGPLAYS in the end if they made Shen viable in anyway.

metaworldpeace10Mar 10, 20152 votes

I love shen, a think a couple of small buffs could go a long way. I agree with the comparison with Riven's shield. I play both champions fairly regularly, but I'd like to see Shen's shield scale off of bonus hp or total hp. I'd also like to see Shen gain MR per level, those two small buffs i feel would put him in a really good spot in terms of balance and viability.

S H A Y C 0Mar 10, 20151 votes

Shen is the only "ninja" in this game that cant actually do any damage....hes really not a ninja, hes more like a big dumb bodyguard with a flak jacket thats always there when you call. My vote, either make him not a ninja and leave him as is, no damage tanky life saver/supporty champ, or keep the ninja outfit and let him actually kill stuff

ShahamutMar 16, 20151 votes

It is possible to be a ninja AND still be a tank, you just need to emphasize some other ninja qualities.

For instance, if say, Shen's movement speed wasn't so low, and he had some sort of stealth mechanic, or ability to quickly reposition. With slightly better CC, he could be plently ninja AND tank.

Being ninja isn't JUST about killing people. Ninja's were sabatour's and spies as well.

What if he got some kind of Vision thing? "Eye of Twilight?" Revealing stealthed/invisible units within a certain range?

There are plenty of ways to add "Ninja" to Shen without making him an assassin.

Monsta MooMar 11, 20151 votes

I always rush Spirit Visage so MR isn't a problem, it allows you take full power of your Q really early in the game and makes your sustain super strong. Shen's taunt reduces damage by 30% and he can proc a shield at the same time. Nothing Riven has reduces damage.

I GONNA FK ON UMar 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I always rush Spirit Visage so MR isn't a problem, it allows you take full power of your Q really early in the game and makes your sustain super strong. Shen's taunt reduces damage by 30% and he can proc a shield at the same time. Nothing Riven has reduces damage.

I would hope not as that would be broken as fuck. Regardless, comparing an element like that between two champion makes no sense. It's like me saying "Riven's R increases her AD; nothing Shen has increases his AD."

ShahamutMar 16, 20151 votes

His kit though needs some updates in general though, since it is pretty Binary, and lacks strengths/weaknesses, counterplay, and synergy.