Riot: "We're going to nerf level 2 junglers because they're too oppressive"

Naalith·Jan 24, 2019·69 votes·18,262 views

Also Riot: Disproportionately nerfs the jungle classes that are already ass instead of just nerfing Camille/Xin/Lee Sin.

I... don't understand. The only reason the hyper aggressive junglers are so good is because you keep nerfing the value of farming while also making duelist traits highly desirable, so of course champions with in-built CC on their basic abilities, initiation potential, and kill power like Camille and Xin are going to be the only characters that get played.

57 Comments

what you deserveJan 24, 201969 votes

riot: early game junglers are too strong! riot: nerfs scaling exp riot: i'm good at balance

ModPeriscopeJan 25, 201913 votes

I've edited out the offending parts of your comment. Please refrain from being rude to others on the forums.

If you have any questions about this moderation, feel free to reach out to us in the Boards Discord.

Anxious SnowJan 25, 201915 votes

Logged in aswell just to downvote your comment hope we don't see more of this

hewhodoesnotcareJan 25, 20198 votes

[{quoted}](name=mahmoud maatalla,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l9dAamVL,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2019-01-25T14:33:51.598+0000)

Logged in aswell just to downvote your comment hope we don't see more of this

Same here as well. These mods r easily offended and mad with power

B0akJan 25, 20196 votes

I also logged in just to downvote this. I know you are just doing your job but "Reeeeee censorship baaaaad!"

ModPeriscopeJan 25, 20194 votes

Sorry you feel that way, but we will moderate comments that are rule breaking. The criticism he leveled was otherwise untouched.

If you wish to discuss this moderation, feel free to reach out to us in the Boards Discord or on the Discuss the Boards subforum.

HungryAngry2SPPJan 25, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Sorry you feel that way, but we will moderate comments that are rule breaking. The criticism he leveled was otherwise untouched.

If you wish to discuss this moderation, feel free to reach out to us in the Boards Discord or on the Discuss the Boards subforum.

Logged just do downvote you. IDK why, but if people do this, I will do it as well. Hahaha, just kidding. (You problably already do but...) Don't mind them

LubbyDubbyBeebJan 25, 20195 votes

"SoRRy YoU FeEl ThiS WAy"

what you deserveJan 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Sorry you feel that way, but we will moderate comments that are rule breaking. The criticism he leveled was otherwise untouched.

If you wish to discuss this moderation, feel free to reach out to us in the Boards Discord or on the Discuss the Boards subforum.

i can't believe staff are assuming genders in 2019 frankly

Tundra HunterJan 25, 201914 votes

Ahahah I thought the "removed by moderation" was a joke from you and then saw it wasn't =)

what you deserveJan 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tundra Hunter,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l9dAamVL,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-01-25T08:15:21.721+0000)

Ahahah I thought the "removed by moderation" was a joke from you and then saw it wasn't =)

it's offensive to ask whether riot balance team has ever played their game though i explained what riot was trying to do and what they did to a few people who've never played a game of league in their lives and they both understood it well enough

SchenixJan 25, 201932 votes

They literally have no clue what to do with jungle. Never have.

Blast Cones were meant to add variety to the game and have your team play around them. It's literally only used to escape bad situations or path quicker. In rare situations, it is also used to avoid wards, because vision isn't already nerfed every other patch.

Scuttle was meant to be so that junglers did not gank as early as level 3. They became level 2 ganks. Outstanding move.

This current jungle nerf was meant to tone down the power of junglers in general, and early game duelists in particular. It only empowered them theoretically, as if Red Smites nerf was going to make them think twice about their pick when all junglers are being hit.

Does this all mean jungle is dead? No. It just means it's even more a pain to effectively execute.

Quil EvrythingJan 25, 20191 votes

If they REALLY want to get rid of level 2 ganks, its easy: Make redbuff not spawn until 5 minutes. Or, not give BUFF until 5 minutes. you still get gold and xp.. just no buff.

SchenixJan 25, 20196 votes

Actually stopping level 2 ganks is to nerf the core junglers that do it and see how the meta in junglers shifts. If it's still level 2 ganking prominence, then we have a jungle problem. If it is toned down significantly, it was the oppression of certain jungle picks. This is something pre-season should have done, the current patch is literally what the preseason followup patch was supposed to be.

FlashesJan 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quil Evrything,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l9dAamVL,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-01-25T01:18:53.413+0000)

If they REALLY want to get rid of level 2 ganks, its easy: Make redbuff not spawn until 5 minutes. Or, not give BUFF until 5 minutes. you still get gold and xp.. just no buff.

what

KarfussJan 25, 201912 votes

{quoted}

Does this all mean jungle is dead? No. It just means it's even more a pain to effectively execute.

Ask Amumu if he thinks Jungle is dead. He is quite literally crying in a corner.

Every time they make Jungle less worthwhile to clear, Riot only empowers the Junglers that can hold their own level 2-3 while also having decent ganking potential.

They genuinely just have no clue what they're doing, or NEED to do, to fix the Jungle. They see "Hey these Junglers are too influential" and decide to nerf it all. This same ethos behind not nerfing itemisation if one or two champions are running rampant with it... Doesn't apply.

TheSingularityJan 25, 20193 votes

The fruits in general have been a collosal failure compared to the smite buffs we used to have. Man I miss my wolf ward and gromp dot

AseraanJan 25, 20191 votes

Tell me about it. Had soo man wonderfull things. Could play a tank jungler and wasnt stapled whit losing 80% of the games for it.

TheSingularityJan 25, 20191 votes

Still do with the last part. Smite+ignite is key for mah naut

ŚhunpoJan 25, 201920 votes

Riot: "Level 2 ganks and cheeses are too strong in the jungle!" Also Riot: nerfs jungle exp. as a whole without actually nerfing level 2 gankers/cheesers

200 IQ play right there.

rawiazam1Jan 25, 20196 votes

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/027/838/Untitled-1.jpg

FlashesJan 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Seth L9,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l9dAamVL,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-01-25T06:39:44.340+0000)

Riot: "Level 2 ganks and cheeses are too strong in the jungle!" Also Riot: nerfs jungle exp. as a whole without actually nerfing level 2 gankers/cheesers

200 IQ play right there.

Insert Outstanding Move Meme

RukhJan 25, 20199 votes

Remove crabs.

XonraJan 25, 20193 votes

I actually agree. They are basically just there for free jungle xp realistically and an annoyance otherwise because of the speed boost.

LilRoosterJan 25, 20196 votes

There were plenty of people who posted this exact issue at the time of the change to jungle some year and a half ago. Specifically saying, that Introducing scuttle would skew the game to early game kill based champions. Jax, Shaco, Vi, Kha'Zix, WW, Kindred are all super strong. Mundo, Amumu, Zac, Maokai, Trundle, Volibear, Shyvana can barely play the game. These recent changes definitely did not help any. All it did was put more emphasis on early game kills and less on maintaining jungle farming. Kill based junglers were already getting their leads by soaking exp from lanes and from getting early kills. Now those champions that farm for objectives or team fights are basically out of the game at 7 mins.

Just MonikhaFeb 6, 20191 votes

Jax : I agree Shaco : He is super trash how can everybody can t see it ? It s just not complicated the champion lvl 2 has only 10 base damage Q lvl 1 and 40% AD ratio and his box that hit for 35 and will hit for 2 shots if you re smart enough and those 2 spells have a high CD : 16/13,5 and 16

==> He has 80 base damage lvl 2 ==> you destroy him with every champion lvl 2

It s still like that lvl 3 4 and 5 lvl 3 he gains 55 damage, 10 damage lvl 4 and lvl 5 ==> 155 damage lvl 5 ==> You can kill him easily at these lvls no matter who you are

90% of his damage are autoattacks : Autos from clone, auto from backstab, from Q, his stuff adding only autoattack damage or attack speed (DB, Trini, Titanic, Berzerk) ==> Build tabis and almost all his burst is reduced by approx 30% (i count the armor reduction tho) and like every AD assassin Stasis, Exhaust and GA are strong counters

==> He has a shit AD scaling

==> He is full of bug (only E isn t bugged)

==> His boxes are killed by a no cost item aka red trinket

==> He has his own way to gank = if you know where to place the ward he will be instant spotted = useless gank

Kha'Zix : I agree Vi : I m starting to see her often so it s probably true WW : I agree Kindred : I agree Problem with the super strong ones : All the redbuff lvl 2 gank are not here (Lee Graves Xin Camille) and all the AP mobi are not here (Gragas, Nidalee etc.) and Karthus isn't here Mundo, Ammumu and all the others can't play : I agree

NevrankroatonJan 25, 20195 votes

Because the issue isnt lvl 2 gank but that camille is too strong at it and xin xhao is just too strong overall...

Idk why you guys cant just see that. Lee sin lvl 2 gank didnt chzbge, same for elise or twitch for exemple. It isnt too strong.

But camille lvl 2 gank are insane as they are efficient beyond the roof and xin is just too good at everything.

Trust me that every other lvl 2 gank are either cheese (twitch) or dont bring much in term of cc or damage to scare you off. But for xin and camille, they are just too strong at it.

Edit: Just to remind something, yes I know that you mean the change doesn't stop camille/xin to be an issue, but jungler being lvl ahead or even is not a myth, it was VERY real, even more if they were fed and it wasn't normal. Nerfing this issue isn't a call to stop camille/xin, they are their own problems and gank lvl 2 didn't become a problem, they ARE a problem because their gank/strength is too big.

BisaknospJan 25, 20191 votes

who ganks with elise at lvl 2? if you put a point in e lvl 2 i will make your clear a lot slower that sounds giga bad

Bears Dont CareJan 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

who ganks with elise at lvl 2? if you put a point in e lvl 2 i will make your clear a lot slower that sounds giga bad

Red~>gank~>scuttle

Stunning the scuttle reduces its armor/MR so you can kill it more easily with your Q

NevrankroatonJan 25, 20191 votes

Oh I agree it isn't optimal but elise ganking power isn't bad at lvl 2 and since you need to have a huge pressure early, some people abuse weak laner with this, notably to make them waste a flash so they can come back a little later and get the kill.

hewhodoesnotcareJan 25, 20195 votes

Riot proceeds to nerf every jungler by not nerfing the lvl 2 ganking junglers hahah

GigglesOJan 25, 20194 votes

They don't even need to go to jungle, just gank repeatedly and you get all the exp you need.

Tundra HunterJan 25, 20194 votes

They should delete the jungle at this point.

RatpieJan 25, 20193 votes

For real, can we stop nerfing all of jungle as a blanket? All it is doing is making a few champs accessible, and making so many champs unplayable. All it is now is duelist button smashing with champs that are super mobile. I am pretty sure I have seen Kayne in like every game lately.

SiG DxDJan 25, 20193 votes

yes because of 3-4 junglers , they nerf all the rest who may struggle to keep up

WøOxerJan 25, 20192 votes

Since when Lee Sin is oppressive at lvl 2?

BisaknospJan 25, 20198 votes

can walk to a lane and ward jump to auto you a few times with redbuff and deal dmg with a q might even get a flash or a kill depends its def harder to get a kill with him early in comparison to xin and camille but still easier than the rest

WøOxerJan 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

can walk to a lane and ward jump to auto you a few times with redbuff and deal dmg with a q might even get a flash or a kill depends its def harder to get a kill with him early in comparison to xin and camille but still easier than the rest

Opposite jungler can do the same?

Whats the difference?

PoskeJan 25, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Since when Lee Sin is oppressive at lvl 2?

Boards 2k19

BigFBearJan 25, 20191 votes

Thread No. 323 about this topic

LilRoosterJan 25, 20197 votes

And yet everyone is still waiting for solution number No. 1

PopperofskiJan 25, 20191 votes

how to nerf jungle: Nerf fucking champions and stop giving them such overtuned stats Udyr XinZhao Camille Graves LeeSin Nidalee Shaco Warwick Khazix Kindred

Then you can nerf red buff to get rid of the slow, and the dot damage, and on top of the health regen, give you lifesteal on jungle camps only.

AseraanJan 25, 20192 votes

Yo why is udyr on that list the boi has no gapcloser other than flash....

UlyssesISRJan 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

how to nerf jungle: Nerf fucking champions and stop giving them such overtuned stats

Then you can nerf red buff to get rid of the slow, and the dot damage, and on top of the health regen, give you lifesteal on jungle camps only.

You know what is funny is this is the most truthful comment. Nerfing xp did nothing to reduce the power of junglers. It only gave passive junglers something to complain about. Meanwhile ultra aggressive WW's are running around in SR-blind, going on a seemingly never-ending rampage of ganks as soon as they get that red-buff at lv 2.

They will revert this nerf in the future without a doubt, and we will be back at square one.

Just MonikhaFeb 6, 20191 votes

Nerf Lee sin : Ok Nerf Camille : Ok Nerf Graves : Ok Nerf Xin : Ok Nerf Nidalee : Ok Nerf Kindred : Ok Nerf Kha'Zix : Why not but he s the only AD assassin viable Nerf Warwick : Why not

And then there we go he goes insane :

Nerf Udyr : Wtf ? He has no gapcloser as a melee = he is weak anyway Nerf Shaco : HAHAHAHAHAH find something to nerf on this champion he is trash as fuck and got nothing but an almost 5 sec stealth on Q at max lvl and he got indirectly nerfed at least 10 times in a row and is played only by otp + you wanna nerf a champion 100% countered by Tabi only and a champion having a 10-50 base damage Q 55-155 base damage E that sounds funny as hell XD Nerf redbuff : What ? He s been like that for a moment and it wasn t a problem before XD Where is nerf to other AP mobi junglers ? To Karthus ? Where is a real proposition for the jungler otherwhise ?

Here are my propositions :

Nerf the shit out of Lee Sin and idgaf if it hurts 35% of the League community because he deserves it.
Nerf every other redbuff instagank junglers but try to make them viable toplane again except Kindred and Graves (will come on his case just after)
Revert Graves = make Graves an ADC again or nerf either his damage (Ratios and base damage) or nerf his armor (base armor, scling armor and remove the armor on E) and try to make Kindred viable also as an ADC.
Nerf the shit out of every AP junglers ==> Nerf pene boots and the orb/morello, nerf the AP jungler item on the mana regen on procs to monsters and nerf the proc damage itself and nerf his stats, nerf the AP of every AP item and nerf especially Deathcap Void staff.
Nerf Kha'Zix (it will be needed after the changes I will make)
Make the Warrior enchant having pene again
Revert lethality
Put brutalizer back in the game
Revert the tank jungle item (HP and tenacity, if you want some clear you can go for bami before)
Full revert Shaco
Revert vision
Nerf Gauntlet proc to 50% total damage and make it melee only ==> no more range "squishies" with 65 armor beating the shit out of you and will avoid some AP + gauntlet champions
Revert bloodrazor
Revert the jungle : old drake, old nashor, old mobs near blue and red, old camps in general and old respawn for camps and no more plants
Revert Tiamat nerf
Fix the monster hunter thing : Now it definitly doesn't exist
Remove Duskblade from the game or rework it
Bring back DFG ==> AP mobi junglers will have a real offensive build (and not this aids mage stuff/a mage stuff with gauntlet)
Make it more difficult for junglers to camp the toplane by a way or an other I just wanna see the jungler ganking every single lane, not only one lane.
Do something to Evelynn W, it s just stupid to remove a cc from stealth because it s unfair then bring it back for no fkn reason.
Obviously revert runes
Release new bruiser items
Buff Hecarim regen
Nerf Riven base damage and ratios and cds

MLDzXnRRRJan 26, 20191 votes

I lost a game yesterday, because my jungler was going to my lane (while I was recalling) and farming it, so he doesn't fall off in terms of xp, plus I guess didn't mind the extra gold. Why I lost - I was the one underleveled - my opponent had more cs and experience and was attacking me while being higher lvl than me. Good luck fighting like that.

Sergeant HbA1cFeb 17, 20191 votes

I just want the damage scaling from Hecarim's speed boost to be nerfed. Or at least make it so that only items grant the bonus. Not only is it just depressing watching a level 3 Hecarim literally one-shot a carry because of the bonus from Predator, but the fact that even if you CC him, he doesn't lose the bonus movespeed.

"But it's an ability that costs 300g!" Hush. Boots are one of the least expensive items in the game, and the yield is insane. It's too much for too little.