If Sated Devourer is a "late game" item, why not make it a late game item.

Fadedpf·Aug 8, 2015·44 votes·3,258 views

Just a thought I had because Riot said it was a late game item but can very easily be obtained based on who has the most control on the map. (seen some as early as 18 to 20 minutes. ) So an easy way to make it more of a late game spike would be to change scuttle crab to give only 1 stack and dragon 3 stacks. This seems like a reasonable change to make it more of a risky enchantment for the amount of damage it can deal and how good it is on Champions that are being kept at a high ban rate because of the enchantment.

59 Comments

5000000000000000Aug 8, 201521 votes

That means junglers are even less incentivized to do anything other than afk farm.

Devourer junglers are supposed to take objectives early.

FadedpfAug 8, 20154 votes

That doesn't mean they cant. Its the player mentality over the item. Devourer junglers are all good gankers with or without the item, its their fault if they don't want to gank and help out with objectives.

5000000000000000Aug 8, 201516 votes

Bad players are already afk farming with Devourer and come out strong all of a sudden. I think that's the main problem with Devourer enchantment: non-interaction. If anything we should nerf the Sated Devourer or raise the maximum Devourer stacks before it's sated. Taking scuttle and dragon/baron should give more stacks than normal.

FadedpfAug 8, 20154 votes

Well thats how it is when there is a Devourer item/feral flare. The power spike is so good that people want to afk farm not much you can do about that. But I think it should be harder to obtain.

5000000000000000Aug 8, 20156 votes

{quoted}

not much you can do about that.

Well, we can incentivize not afk farming? The design currently discourages afk farming by giving you incentives to take scuttle crab and dragon/baron. AFK farming is actually not a good strategy when you have Devourer. It's just that people see it as Feral Flare 2.0 instead of Devourer enchantment that it is. Your suggestion makes it so that it brings back the same problem of Feral Flare.

FadedpfAug 8, 20152 votes

Well if you want to deal with the AFK farming I don't know what you want to do about that. Scuttle and Drag are things every team wants and the reward for a devourer user is so much more because they get even closer the the massive power spike. I want that to take longer to get to. All of the Devourer users are fast at farming, people just want to get to the power spike as fast as possible. Like I said it is the mentality over the actual item, players should worry about objectives and their team needs no matter what and keep Sated as a later game spike.

Sightless66Aug 8, 20153 votes

If your only goal is making the reward come later, just increase the number of stacks needed to activate it while decreasing the base damage on-hit by the same amount. Accomplishes the same goal without incentivizing afk farming to the degree that your proposal does.

FadedpfAug 8, 20151 votes

Stack requirement increase or my proposal then, which ever works.

DecritAug 8, 20152 votes

Even increasing stacks won' t help.

I think that it' s already fine as it is: it gives as, a stat with which not many naturally scale well, and a passive that works well with at least an other item on hit. Stacking more items is not advised.

Plus, i do think that devourer should not be a late game item because isa jungler one - almost all the jungler items have a scaling that pops up early-mid game because they need to be influent in those lanes while they are still in the jungle. In fact Runeglaive, Cinderhulk and Devourer sinergize well with at least one another item. Warrior so far is the only exception, and is not so much early oriented.

PartholonianAug 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well if you want to deal with the AFK farming I don't know what you want to do about that.

Pressure the lanes instead of farm farm farm. Shove them in and take turrets because you're not afraid of someone who isn't going to gank.

Get your jungler to show up and tower dive because you know theirs isn't going to show up to stop you.

MyrddinAug 9, 20151 votes

Any jungle that can farm decently well also has very good ganks, which they also get stacks for.

The same people that would be farming with gragas a few patches ago are farming on xin now. They just don't understand the game and changing this item doesn't fix that

JefftiffyAug 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Bad players are already afk farming with Devourer and come out strong all of a sudden. I think that's the main problem with Devourer enchantment: non-interaction. If anything we should nerf the Sated Devourer or raise the maximum Devourer stacks before it's sated. Taking scuttle and dragon/baron should give more stacks than normal.

Or maybe its called Riot made the jungle first clear so hard for a lot of junglers that the people meant to shut down the afk farmers can't because they have already got the afk farming jungler got their early power spike by the time they can find them. A lot of them only need the first dagger to start their power spike and if you don't have the hp to fight them you can't deny them the dagger. It's more of new jungle strangling out anti farming junglers. Lee sin was popular due to him keep people like Yi and Xin at bay but he received repeated nerfs and struggles to clear 3 camps in his first clear while the people he is meant to shut down can clear 4-5 and still gank.

MyrddinAug 9, 20151 votes

JarvanIV LeeSin Elise Nunu XinZhao Udyr all can start red then kill you at yours

SpecterVonBarenAug 8, 20151 votes

Why not decrease Dragon and Baron to 3 but also have it so kills grant 2 stacks?

Only Play DariusAug 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Devourer junglers are all good gankers with or without the item

LMAO you clearly have never seen MasterYi try to gank pre-6.

JefftiffyAug 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l6voXcN5,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2015-08-08T18:19:34.576+0000)

LMAO you clearly have never seen try to gank pre-6.

Exactly pre-6. But does it matter if he builds it for post-6? Does it really enable him to gank? Think about what you say before you laugh at others.

Only Play DariusAug 8, 20152 votes

LATE GAME HYPER CARRY

What part of that do you not understand? If you can't take advantage of the fact that Yi's ganks are nonexistant pre-6 (and still pretty shitty with ult) to gank your lanes and get them snowballed while he farms, then don't be surprised that he pops out of the jg 30 minutes later and deletes people.

foinhasAug 8, 20151 votes

you have to understand 2 things:

nobody wards nobody countee-jungles.

Then people become surprised because a HYPERCARRY who was allowed to farm suddenly appears and HYPERCARRIES the game...

Trash ADC BtwAug 8, 20152 votes

Even when warding/counterjungling. Taking more than 20 camps throughout the course of the game and a red and a blue, the enemy still stacked his sated by 28 minutes. He still deleted my team like they were nothing.

Zero EngineAug 9, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Trash ADC BtwAug 9, 20151 votes

We were up three towers, hence why it was so easy to counterjungle. We were also up two Dragons. Didn't matter a bit.

OnegarionAug 8, 20155 votes

Why not just have it be set to a timer like RoA? Thats the only true way of making it a late game investment and not a selfish item that it is now.

LaughingMan11Aug 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why not just have it be set to a timer like RoA? Thats the only true way of making it a late game investment and not a selfish item that it is now.

^^^ This idea right here, have it grant 2 On-hit damage per Min, so after 15 min from buying it, you have sated.

UnalteredDestinyAug 8, 20151 votes

I feel that 15 minutes after buying it is a bit too soon, as devourer may be grabbed as soon as 10:00, if farmed hard. After that, you could just gank all you want, and still gain the devourer stacks to become sated , sated should be for farm oriented junglers.

LaughingMan11Aug 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I feel that 15 minutes after buying it is a bit too soon, as devourer may be grabbed as soon as 10:00, if farmed hard. After that, you could just gank all you want, and still gain the devourer stacks to become sated , sated should be for farm oriented junglers.

Right, but if you look at RoA, it takes it about 10-15 min to full stack as well. I mean im okay with making it longer. But on the same note, they should really only make SD proc either its own damage twice, or only On-Hit effects of items, not champions abilities.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Aug 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why not just have it be set to a timer like RoA? Thats the only true way of making it a late game investment and not a selfish item that it is now.

And there we go, smite laners get it again.

Top Shyvanna, mid Kayle, bot vayne, JG yi. GG after 15 minutes.

The reason why sated aren't used by laners is the gate of resource. The amount of monsters is limited thus cannot be spread to more than 1 member.

EvilMerodachAug 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why not just have it be set to a timer like RoA? Thats the only true way of making it a late game investment and not a selfish item that it is now.

Then you have the problem of whichever jungler has the fastest 1st/2nd clear time the best jungler in the game and everyone else is just bad. Cause they'll get enough gold to buy it 1st, then they'll get it stacked 1st, and you can't do jack shit to stop them. Plus then they can just get enough gold to get the item, then just camp a lane till it transforms (cause they no longer have to care about objectives, they just need to be as annoying as possible to the enemy till their timer runs out,) then kill everyone and go home. Doesn't sound fun to me.

bad manner kidAug 8, 20153 votes

Sated Devourer is an item that is supposed to reflect every AD jungler that doesn't want the worthless garbage stats of Warrior... and it grossly favors 3-4 champions. Good job Riot, try again after you delete this item like you did Feral Flare.

magic poleAug 8, 20151 votes

yeah warrior really is crap. Most of the time these days ill upgrade the smite and just leave it at that, and start building real items. It's such an investment and small power spike, also stupid buying it knowing you'll just sell it late game. You get brutalizer which is a nice spike, but then the full item is just +15 AD after that...garbage.

at least devourer and cinder hulk you know will be permanent items. devourer because sated is nuts, and cinder hulk just gets better as the game goes on

i think now that some cindy and dev jungles are in style, warrior could use a buff (while CLOSELY watching lee/j4/vi)

PreymsterAug 8, 20152 votes

I'm going to be honest, when i jungle and take a champion that will benefit from sated i usually find that rushing out devourer stacks benefits more in the long run than ganking as long at my teams lanes aren't being completely demolished.

-yes its bad practice -yes its stupid and i know I'm not contributing to the early game.

but the power spike that this stupid item affords is just absurdly hilarious and it becomes a race to finish the item so that you can get the first dragon in and end up way ahead of the enemy jungler, who anymore will inevitably be getting the same item. seriously a grand GRAND majority of other junglers i see are all working to finish up this item as quickly as possible as well because it just affords your champion so much extra damage from its passive. its especially stupid on udyr, diana, xin, and yi. heck i was playing as attack speed diana and DELETING THE ENEMY TANK. its even better if you build tanky AP with devouer and a nashors.

the item rewards a selfish playstyle, and in turn rewards the player with a power spike of utterly stupid proportions in some cases.

on your topic, if you increased the stacks needed then unfortunately i still feel that it was more worth it to farm up devourer so that i can jump in on the enemy adc and annihilate them and more easily secure dragon and other objectives. seriously i can melt towers with this item as well.

do i enjoy using it? yes. does it make it a healthy item? oh heck no. im all in favor of removing this thing, but i will have fun until that point comes.

agbudarAug 8, 20152 votes

or have it be a third tier item...

foinhasAug 8, 20152 votes

how about this?

Devourer now has two mechanics: points and charges. Each point grants 1 magic damage. At 30 points devourer becames sated (the current mechanic). Every half minute you gain one charge. Each time you kill one big monters in your jungle, you expend one charge to get one point. Without charges you get no point. Dragon/crab grants 2 points. Kill/assist/tower grant 2 charges. Enemy big monsters grant 1 point

Basically, by afk farming you can only get this item by 20+ min. But you are rewarded by ganking, counter-jungling and controling objectives. This way, if you want devourer to become sated, you need to have a more active role in the game.

Numbers can be tweaked to better insure balance.

Edit: I decided to tweak the "afk time to complete" to 20 +min. I believe this is the optimal minimun time for an afk jungle to get devourer because if by the 20 min mark you're still not winning 5vs4, then it's not the item's fault but YOUR own fault.

iainB85Aug 8, 20152 votes

Dragon/Baron - 3 Blue/Red Camp - 2 All Other Camps - 1 Scuttle - 1 Kill/Assist - 1

Increase points required to be sated (40).

This way sated is more late game, and the jungler actually needs to have more of an impact on the game than just farming camps and emerging a raid boss.

The numbers may need to be tweaked but I think the principle is solid. The jungler needs to keep up with farm and helping lanes in order to get sated quicker -- not just farm his jungle. This is how it should be.

RealhrageAug 8, 20151 votes

70 magic damage per hit, with 140 every other hit still seems to be too much. The entire reason the tacks caps at 30 is because before, Master Yis and Shyvanas were hitting over 60 stacks on the item.

AbyssphereAug 8, 20152 votes

Sated Devourer is a late game item because every on-hit item you buy with it makes it stronger. It is strongest when you complete your final on-hit item. The problem right now is that Sated + Botrk is pretty much your late game because Botrk is an absolutely ridiculous item. Nerf Botrk and the mid game spike on Sated is suddenly nowhere near as strong.

Nidalee SO NYAAAAug 8, 20152 votes

Shyvana With Botrk does not even really need Sated Devourer because that item is just so good on her but when shes get Sated Devourer she becomes almost unstoppable

Krys StarAug 8, 20152 votes

I'd rather Riot either remove the item, or just make the stacks build over time with monsters to help or something. So far, it's like Feral Flare all over again. I have so many junglers that refuse to gank or assist us because they want to get stacks. So bad that one time, my jungler left base to kill monsters while they were sieging mid and took inhibitor out of it.

Maybe I'm just getting the wrong players, I don't know but so far I loathe the item. Sure, junglers are not required or obligated to gank but they don't have to afk farm either because of their obsession to get sated. That, and it sucks when the enemy's jungler is ganking, pressuring and changing lanes for his team while ours ignores it and farms. -_-

JedenVojakAug 8, 20151 votes

Actually they should change it to generate 1 stack on every jungle monster killed, not just the big ones - the point is to get into play sooner so people don't just AFK farm the jungle all game.

Lil Gr33n GhoulsAug 8, 20151 votes

Blue Buff = 3 Gromp = 1 Wolves = 3 Wraiths = 4 Red Buff = 3 Krugs = 2

Thats 16 in one clear. 18 or 20 if you count scuttles as 1 or 2 respectively. That's wayyyy to fast.

A Miss FortuneAug 8, 20151 votes

I love hitting "late game" at 15 minutes lol.

Robert SmithAug 8, 20151 votes

I've been countered jungles and dragons taken from me too, still got 30 stacks before 20. My average is 20 minutes. Not hard to get early

MarkedOfKaneAug 8, 20151 votes

I get it at about 14-15 minutes each game. I think they should just bring back the old devourer but give it the new stacking amounts or something. The item is ridiculously broken and the person always gets sated.

Emperor TimeAug 8, 20151 votes

pff Sated isn't a late game item, it's a mid game item let's be honest here, You can get sated fully stacked before 20 minutes if you are ahead.

Mayor StubbsAug 8, 20151 votes

I get it most average games around the 20-24 minute mark, this is with ganking a medium/heavy amount. (On kayle). I agree it's a little quick

Mandang0Aug 8, 20151 votes

If you want to make sated lategame without encouraging afk farming, nerf the on-hit and make the item more dependent on comboing with another item's on-hits.

Guy Fox TeemoAug 8, 20151 votes

Then anyone who takes the item and doesn't get every single dragon and scuttle crab won't get stated till about the 40-45 Min mark.

AMYS GRAVEAug 8, 20151 votes

because it is actually a mid game item...

LegitBacon66Aug 9, 20151 votes

Pfft late game. More like 20 minute sated game

MyrddinAug 9, 20151 votes

It's a late game item because it does nothing by itself and requires other items to actually be useful.

It's also a dumb line they put out there with devourer being late game, the tanks can't have a late game item. Was honestly just a poor excuse to nerf cinderhulk