Riot is about to make a Big Mistake.

FurriesAreHot·Oct 20, 2016·180 votes·7,852 views

Let me start by saying this is NOT a whine thread.

Now, Riot is playing to remove item sets in season 7, this may not be an issue for you, but for some players this is a problem. Lets start by asking the question: "What does Riot gain from removing item sets?" The answer is nothing. As it stands, removing item sets would give nothing positive to players, only cause upset. I use item sets myself, because memorizing the right builds for different situations is very difficult for multiple champions. All im saying is Riot, dont make another mistake you will end up regretting, for the community and your company's sake, please dont remove Item Sets.

Your long-time fan, SummonersFowl

122 Comments

Zero Skill TankOct 20, 201662 votes

"What does Riot gain from removing item sets?" The answer is nothing.

They won't lose money on porting them to new client.

EedatOct 20, 201623 votes

And the coding time as well. I'm sure the new client has a budget of some sort so we'll have to give something up to gain other things

RocketRelmOct 20, 20162 votes

Yeah, I kind of figured that this is a combination of "our servers can't support this many item sets" and "we couldn't figure out how to make it work in the new client so F it, nobody used em anyway rite?"

Amasa DelanoOct 20, 201615 votes

It's definitely not either of these. They can figure out how to make it work on the new client, it will just take developer time to re-build, and they think that their developer time is better spent making replays, practice mode, etc. I love item sets, and I would love Riot to port them over to the new client, but I honestly might want replays and practice mode. That's the decision they have to make, which one comes out first.

reaperteaserOct 21, 20167 votes

theres the possibility that they will add item sets back in the future after they finished on other major projects

Amasa DelanoOct 21, 20162 votes

Absolutely. We'll just have to make do without until then.

KieferrOct 21, 20163 votes

A near billion dollar company, and they don't have the budget to implement just one feature?

dunkeroniOct 21, 20164 votes

Billion dollar company does not mean billion dollar budget.

AptestOct 20, 20163 votes

They get to get the new client online sooner.

what does the new client do better?

from what i have seen so far, there is an addition of art assets, transition animations, sounds, et cetera to the client... which i will not like.

MirkhailOct 20, 20165 votes

The old client used a very outdated technology, that made very difficult for riot to ever change anything and every time they change something the needed to rebuild part of the code, also they needed specific programmer for the old code. The new client is generally better and make implementing things much easier.

HugATibbers4MeOct 20, 20168 votes

Actually, I don't think it's old code or a specific programmer (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=16318), if you look at Lima Bean's response, most of the languages there are fairly mainstream. It's more likely that when they first created league they didn't expect or plan for how big it would get. To maintain such a large project they would have needed a very good design. What most likely happened is that the design was lacking, inconsistent programming standards, which caused certain things to break when a change was pushed. As an analogy, many people using the kitchen but only one at a time, one person goes to buy apples, places them in the apples basket in the cabinet. Another person, bought some apples and places them in a drawer. Time passes and they realize that the apples are probably bad and should be thrown out, so they go and remove it from the designated apples basket from the appropriate cabinet. Meanwhile they have apples rotting in a drawer. Now imagine a HUGE kitchen pantry that has had years and years of things being put in incorrect places, imagine cleaning that up. It would be pretty difficult and time consuming. It would be easier to just start over, wouldn't it? The upside, because the new client has a better design and presumably there are better programming standards (lesson: put all the apples in the apple basket guys) it should make updates less painful. :)

RiverWind0407Oct 21, 20164 votes

That is... actually a really amazing analogy. Thank you.

DeynaTaggerungOct 21, 20161 votes

A rioter mentioned the new client is going to be less resource intensive than the original despite looking "flashier" since they've been optimizing it a lot.

AptestOct 21, 20162 votes

Redundant and superfluous art assets are not a negative because they consume computer resources. They are by themselves bad because they consume attention by presenting you with "look at me" moments where you'd rather be thinking or making choices, they make information less clear, they consume space that could otherwise be used for informative purposes OR for giving you some piece and quite to look at some information elsewhere on the page, and because they make you wait for whatever animation is in effect to end before you continue with the menu.

With respect to Design and art assets, the rule of thumb is this: less is more. The optimal way to design functional things (like a game) is to only slightly overshoot the absolute minimum.

you can not make an un-exciting part of the game exciting by injecting it with art assets. you can't make champion select have more "pizaaz" by added drum rolls and skin portraits and champion quotes. It works exactly twice, and the third time the person who has to go through the process of choosing a champion gets annoyed at being disturbed.

Nami in BushOct 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

They won't lose money on porting them to new client.

You can integrate that shit in an hour or two with 1/2 guys. It's not like you're writing some spaghetti code for in-game shit. It's a drag-drop menu that you could probably steal the code from the old client from.

Russian DollOct 20, 201614 votes

Uhhhh. I have multiple items set, orianna supp, orianna jungle, orianna mid Diana jg, mid, top Etc its easier for me :(

Yosuke ApperuOct 21, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Russian Doll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l2MMMUU2,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-10-20T13:59:55.070+0000)

Uhhhh. I have multiple items set, orianna supp, orianna jungle, orianna mid Diana jg, mid, top Etc its easier for me :(

Upvoted for 1. Item sets 2. orianna jungle, and 3. SMILEEE please :)

Tis a nice dayOct 20, 201614 votes

"What does Riot gain from removing item sets?"

A lot more time to work on other things while building up the new client.

FurriesAreHotOct 20, 20167 votes

However, they have all the time in the world to finish te client, there is no deadline, you can't have more than infinite time.

TopaziumOct 20, 20169 votes

Actually, the have the deadline of next season, and they already promised it's going into beta REALLY soon. So they have a really close deadline. And little time.

President Swa1nOct 20, 20164 votes

I think beta's coming out next patch right?

#Hype

Ben SharpioOct 20, 201613 votes

Riot is making a big mistake. You click baited me for another melodramatic item sets post.

Battlecast SonaOct 20, 20165 votes

"Will the open beta be missing any features from the legacy client? Just a couple at the start. It'll take us a few patches to re-integrate spectate (for your friends and custom games) and the ability to join publicly hosted games using custom games. We're currently not planning to bring over the item set creator feature from the legacy client. Basically only an incredibly tiny percentage of players ever used the feature, and we've heard from many players that y'all don't care whether we bring item sets over so long as we continue to support 3rd party item set customization tools like Championify—and we will!"

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/client-update/article/4ac7a0bc-8847-40cd-8efb-aa5aa3a660f4

You can still use them, you just can't make them.

TêosOct 20, 20164 votes

Just what??? LoL doesnt even have that many build paths and honestly unless you are <silver 5 I dont think this feature is even useful. Waste of space and code. EDIT: Beside knowing what to build in certain situation would only help you, since building the same build all over is more likely to make you lose than be helpful. You should even thank riot for taking it off and making you think on your own instead of copying builds.

KuboxOct 20, 201612 votes

Are you serious?

Item sets are what makes it possible to always build different items every game. It lets you put every defensive/offensive/utility in a nicely presented manner so that you are constantly reminded of them.

The players complaining about item sets are not those who used it to make one build path then never cared anymore, the default recommended item does that well enough. It's the players who actually used the feature as it's meant to be : as a way to quickly see every item that one considers compatible with their champion, or sometimes for very specific niche uses that are still worth being kept in mind.

It could even be complex pages dedicated to a certain role. I for example had a strictly support set, where I had every item any support would ever buy, from the starting items, to trinkets, to common items like aegis as well as occasional ones like Zhonya or Rylai.

VenomarOct 20, 20161 votes

Honestly dude I don't understand this circle Jerk about item sets and am on your side and any other similar side.

The amount of effort it takes to go in and make an item set for each champ class or champion is about twice the work it takes to memorize where the items are in the big list and or learn how to navigate the menu. For the people who say it isn't organized there's literally a big list of checkable sort boxes and a search bar.

You have 8 seconds to recall and more if you die. You should have not only figured out what you're going to be building before you shop in the first place, but have more than enough time to type the first three letters of the item you want in the search bar.

Besides there's so many tricks to navigating the menu, like clicking an item with a same recipe part for another item. But it all comes back to actually taking the time to learn the system that's in place.

I mean I'm all for you guys using the tools while they were presented to you, that's all well and fine. But times is changing and it's time to move on and adapt. There's really no other way to go about it. You can't have your cake and eat it too, this was what riot decided to cut in order to give us a myriad of other features. In a few months you will all be bitching about the next thing and the only remnants of this will be the 4 or 5 salty forum heads who can't let it go and would care to blame everything on "if I still had items sets".

There's some things changing that I'm not thrilled about. But guess what, riot has changed them, they have a design path and a goal, and they are executing it. They've been giving a lot to the community lately as far as wish fulfillment, stop clawing at every last morsel like a bunch of needy rats.

Amasa DelanoOct 20, 20167 votes

I only play one or two main roles and champions in ranked. It didn't take that long to make a couple of pages for each, depending on the type of matchup I'm against (heavy-poke, etc). I know how to navigate the shop, but it's still much less difficult and much faster to have the items available more immediately and forgo the navigation altogether, and those extra seconds in-game can make a big difference.

VenomarOct 20, 20161 votes

They honestly don't though, you shop while you are recalling or waiting for mana or are dead or Any combination of downtime. Not in the middle of a teamfight. If you can't get in done in those 12-15 seconds then there's a bigger issue beyond the item sets.

If the bitch is QoL. Fine, fair, I guess. But people are acting like they WONT be able to shop now becuase of it or that it will somehow impact the game. Which is downright absurd as an argument.

But if the bitch is strictly QoL then call it what it is, and realize how stupid it sounds. "I don't like this because it's different and will make my LoL life inconsequentialy harder for a short period of time until I adjust in 4 or so games"

Amasa DelanoOct 20, 20166 votes

If I can take 2 seconds to shop instead of 12-15, I can use the remaining seconds to think about where the enemy jungler might be, what items I should look to build after this one, how I can avoid doing whatever it was that caused me to die in the future...

Maybe I just think slower than some people, but that extra decision-making time is really useful to me. I'll can certainly shop w/o item sets, I'll just have a little less time for actually playing the game.

YepThatsMahoganyOct 21, 20163 votes

I have over 100 item sets. This feels like a HUGE problem to me please don't do it riot ;-;

KICK OUT AT 2Oct 21, 20163 votes

I use item sets so I don't have to search through the shop for the item I want. It's just way more convenient.

win willOct 21, 20163 votes

Item set doesnt work right now. You cant add item but only blocks which is useless. They really need to fix it asap

SonicBlissOct 21, 20163 votes

I'm going to miss item sets. I have customized them a shitload so i have build paths for any situation on every champ. I've sat down for hours mapping out awesome item ideas. I don't just have one set path of items in the item sets i use, i include any items i would need whether i get underfed, countered and vice versa. It's a shame that because I'm am of minority they're removing item sets.

falldown010Oct 21, 20162 votes

well that"s quite the effort you put into it :p sadly enough riot isnt likely to change their minds

riot cycle -> make something bad -> refuse to change it -> years/months later, change their mind -> change it, and make up and excuse

Exta5yOct 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Let me start by saying this is NOT a whine thread.

Now, Riot is playing to remove item sets in season 7, this may not be an issue for you, but for some players this is a problem. Lets start by asking the question: "What does Riot gain from removing item sets?" The answer is nothing. As it stands, removing item sets would give nothing positive to players, only cause upset. I use item sets myself, because memorizing the right builds for different situations is very difficult for multiple champions. All im saying is Riot, dont make another mistake you will end up regretting, for the community and your company's sake, please dont remove Item Sets.

Your long-time fan, SummonersFowl

I dont believe its difficult to remember. Most of the time your build remains the same, just once in a while you will change one or two items

FurriesAreHotOct 20, 20167 votes

Not when you play a wide range of champions and roles.

Exta5yOct 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Not when you play a wide range of champions and roles.

Maybe you should stick to 2-3 champs and pick a specific role. First You need to update your rune page Second watch a few LoL games to understand game mechanics This is what truly is hurting you and not that they are removing the item set. Like I said before, most item set remain the same for bruiser, apc, adc, support, jungler and tanks. You only really swap out one or 2 items depending on the composition of the other team. But once again you should not be bouncing around if you truly want to climb in Rank. If its just for fun then keep at it.

FurriesAreHotOct 20, 20169 votes

So me playing the game the way I please is hurting me? First off I know how the game mechanics works, pretty sure the game mechanics dont make me play only 3 champions. I wont jsut stand around while my game style falls apart

Exta5yOct 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So me playing the game the way I please is hurting me? First off I know how the game mechanics works, pretty sure the game mechanics dont make me play only 3 champions. I wont just stand around while my game style falls apart

Look Im trying to give you some pointers. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=dubhai vs http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=SummonersFowl

You can play the game anyway you seem fit. But clearly due to your rank and closed mindedness you dont understand mechanics. Dont get me wrong I still have lots to learn, but I am clearly moving in the right direction. Now if you would have watch any Pro LoL game you would be aware that most pro players and very high elo players stick to their specific role and 3 champ pool. With a few excepts ( faker senpai). The best place to learn how to play a champ is playing a game of AI. Once you feel comfortable and are able to pulll of their combo try normal. Once you feel you have mastered that champ in normals then bring that champ into rank. Also you will need more than 2 rune pages and please for the love of Rito get 3rd tier runes and build the pages accordingly. There are many website out there that can help you.

Also I am confused but what you mean by game style falling apart. Could you explain what you mean by that.

FurriesAreHotOct 20, 201610 votes

I understand your trying to help and im greatful for your kindness, but my rank is because I dont bother playing ranked and I got the rank I have because I played ranked too early in my game time/ Im not trying to be a good player, im trying to have fun and win some norms.

Amasa DelanoOct 20, 20168 votes

I agree with a lot of the things you're saying, but don't bring a person's rank into this conversation. It's not classy. :)

rtbf76109271Oct 20, 20161 votes

Even if you do, if you play a champion so infrequently that you "forget" what items they even use.... You clearly dont know the champion well enough to have builds better than the recommended items. And can just use those recommended items.

ItsbeghdevOct 20, 20163 votes

The recommended items are absolute garbage most of the time.

aspects1Oct 21, 20162 votes

riot has fans?

50Shades0fTryndaOct 21, 20162 votes

RIOT ,let item sets live ...

Large MinivanOct 21, 20162 votes

this is exactly what happened last year. cough dq cough

RisenDarkKnightOct 22, 20162 votes

Yeah their logic on removing item sets was only about 1% of players used them, but let's be honest here, what % of players will regularly use replays? Imaqtipie and Scarra said probably about 1% and I agree with them. Most people don't have a ton of free time and would rather start another game than analyze a replay (or cut highlight clips out of it or whatever).

Sure, a decent number of people will try them out at first and dedicated players (especially plat + people probably) will use them, but definitely it's gonna be under 10% of the playerbase. And replays must be A LOT more work and 10000X more server space.

Wolftastic33Oct 20, 20161 votes

Perhaps this way they want to make the game require a little more skill, where you simply have to adapt to the current game.

RocketRelmOct 20, 20164 votes

Give me a way that this actually increases skill requirements at all, while not also counteracting Riot philosophies about 'what types of difficulty we want in our game' and 'no fighting the interface'.

RomtheguyOct 20, 20163 votes

After all, getting rid of Quality of Life things is not giving skill - it's making your life harder through unnecessary means.

It's like getting rid of Yasuo ult's indicator. Sure, you can see if the enemy is knocked up without it, but it's much better for clarity's sake to have the line pointing towards the enemy.