In a balancing sense, why does jinx cleave?

Count Tobi··2 votes·2,295 views

I was just curious as to why this is the case, I'm not entirely convinced this was actually a good idea, her Q isn't really even a spell, it's just a decision of whether she wants more range or more attack speed, there's no real punishment for her choosing either or.

As if to say, it's okay for me to hit further, but if that isn't beneficial enough, I can also hit faster. But I'm also ranged so what do I risk? As a ranged hero, if she gets a kill or assist she goes faster than most melees. And while perhaps this is fine because it ends a short time after and carries like Yi or really anyone with longer CC than a second may punish her, but what I'm curious is to why they made her attacks do cleave damage just because it dwells in her lore. Yes it costs 20 mana, but really how is that a problem when most items in League cater to mana-spenders, and hell the ability is so lenient that jinx will almost never buy a mana-increasing item. Tristana's makes sense because her kit revolves around being a bombardier in a way but Jinx is really there to give her stronger early game power and clear wave when she already has a very powerful attack speed buff. In my honest opinion it's really the fact that the rest of her kit is so weak that her ability to swap range stances is the only thing that makes up for it.

Her snare is decent, but who really steps into that thing either has no understanding that she is a one trick pony or that they're too focused on trying to chase her they step into it. Her w skillshot is her poke, but it does damage and slows, it's range is considerably far but not really. I don't really care about it either way because it's not too hard to dodge. Her Ult is the same thing in this case except it has a pretty big hit box, and since I don't know her cooldowns I have no arguement towards it.

I'm just concerned why it's okay for an autoattack to cleave as a ranged hero when basically you're doing melee oriented damage and you've gained addition range which makes actually no sense, to give you even more range and a cleave for a measly 20 mana, and though say you're attacking so fast you run out of mana quickly, that's rather absurd as well since late game you should be 5 shotting most champions that don't have armor stacked. Her kit to hit and run is interestingly, gimmicking and irritating that's fine. But her ability to cleave and have extra range as a sub-ability from her q is really absurd and makes you more of a hit-hit-hit hero, than a hit and run. Plus I hate the way she looks but that throws out any professionalism I had for this balancing question.

And to those of you who are Jinx mains and those of you who don't care, why are you even reading this T_T?

62 Comments

Dyonas9 votes

Slower attack speed and mana PER ROCKET isn't a trade-off to you?

Dabstar5 votes

Slower attack speed, drains mana, and takes up one of only FOUR slots for skills. Sounds reasonable to me.

Jefftiffy5 votes

Oh god the DOTA picture. You want to complain about someone having a cleave in League? There is a hero called Ancient Apparition in DOTA that denies any form of healing and also does damage over time and can execute you with the damage over time all in a global AoE skillshot ult that gets bigger the further you throw it.

Want to talk about balance and league and post a dota champ. One of the highest skill cap ones too. If you think League is unfair IDK how you do DOTA.

Jinx is kept in check by high mana costs and no real gap closer or escape.

Count Tobi2 votes

First problem is, that it isn't DOTA, it's DotA, second every hero in DotA* is stronger than every champion in league, that's just how it is. Your champions are weak, heroes are strong. Every hero is strong, every champion is selectively weak, which is why this game is so inbalanced

Ligerzz5 votes

Then go back to playing "DOTA". No one wants you here if you're just gonna compare a champions strength through 2 different games.

Count Tobi1 votes

I liked you better when you had no fingers to type with.

Major Sparkles2 votes

Well that escalated quickly.

Centuros1 votes

But he never did actually have no fingers to type with...

Senteth1 votes

Actually he has been typing with his nose this whole time.

Only Play Darius4 votes

She has no escapes, no mobility, and no stealth, her snare is easy to walk around, and her laser pistol has a long channel, making it unusable when running away. She is quite possibly the most vulnerable ADC in the game.

She is meant to be a heavy gunner that brings loads of firepower into the fight, and she does that job well.

She is my favorite ADC, she is quite fun to play, and honestly I feel that she is actually quite balanced because she has clearly defined strengths and weaknesses.

Lord Dusteon3 votes

Because her base attack speed is abysmally low (her base attack speed is .625, which is the 4th lowest attack speed value, and her attack speed per level is 1%; for comparison, Gnar has .5% and Nautilus has 1%, tying her for 2nd lowest), and her base range as a carry without any escape forces her to either have good dps (pow-pow) but be extremely vulnerable or to have good range (fishbones), waveclear, and some splash but at the cost of losing most of her DPS and using mana (which is huge early game).

RogueWill3 votes

Her Zap isn't really a poke. In lane you are safer poking with your Q (in rocket launcher) as you are poking with your W, since it has a moderate mana cost and it can be blocked easily. Her W is more of a chase tool and her E is a defensive Zoning, isn't mean for you to step on them but delay you due to be having to walk around them. The reason on her Q is to give her an opportunity early game

insaiyanbacca3 votes

oh plz if you want to compare champs to DotA's heroes just go away. these kind of things are shunned by this community

Count Tobi1 votes

I just got downvoted by a person who recognizes their own prejudice, comical.

insaiyanbacca3 votes

no im just saying this community is not overly fond of it

Jefftiffy3 votes

He wasn't comparing them but the picture he put was a DOTA hero. One that has no relation to this in the slightest.

And want to know the difference beween DOTA and league? Each champ has a general role while each hero is heavily specialized.

Dreddeth3 votes

It sounds like you've either found some aggravating Jinx players, or perhaps you happen to be bad at her yourself. Sour grapes and all that. Since your OP tells me you won't value the input of Jinx mains, let me say that I main Soraka, and I've been down in bot lane with Jinx on multiple occasions, and I don't believe you know enough of what you're talking about to be standing on your little soapbox and preaching against the fact that Fishbones deals splash damage, or declaring Jinx a "one trick pony."

Lo and behold, the three most recent of your past 5 matches feature a Jinx player prominently upstaging you in one or more ways, though it does look like that last one might have been "killstealing." Thus, your degenerate attitude is explained, though certainly not excused.

Count Tobi1 votes

Why so pretentious even the aggravating Jinx players dislike you, but I didn't downvote you, all I seek is a little honesty from the community. But all they want to do is believe they're right. And that's the problem, too much breast milk and you get used to feeding off your mom's tits, Lo and behold, a brilliantly dedicated rush of fanboys, oh help me if they downvote me like you but that wouldn't happen I support their ways of foolishness. Making me drop a tear everytime I get a comment that berates my arguement by saying something profoundly stupid, hell makes me feel stupid. Shit I could be stupid at this point

Dreddeth5 votes

You started out coherent, if quite obviously adverse to a civil discussion, but after the fourth or fifth ad hominem fallacy, I realized that anything point necessitating such childish verbal abuse could not possibly be relevant. While I'm not surprised, I'm terribly disappointed.

Count Tobi2 votes

But you've broken rule number 10. Bandwagon fallacy. Thou shalt not claim because a premise is popular, therefore it must true, are you not utilizing this piece of document because it is considered a following, is that not bandwagon in itself?

Count Tobi2 votes

And what of the burden of proof reversal?

Dreddeth1 votes

Well, I'm the one questioning your claim that Jinx is "a one trick pony," among other things. That's not so much a reversal as it is an objection to part of your statement.

Furthermore, this image macro isn't itself fallacious, it's just a handy little flash-card for the things they teach you in Contemporary Issues and Critical Thinking classes, and you would not believe the time saved by squashing it into an image macro. If you're going to call that a fallacy, then a number of other things which you likely consider truth are also, by that line of reasoning, a fallacy.

It's nostalgic to see an attempted "logic bomb," as it is popularly known, again, but I think what earns you the most credit here is the fact that you're the first person I've met who's reacted to that thing with any maturity.

5G8Nri0B542 votes

Are you asking why rockets do splash damage?

Count Tobi1 votes

I'm asking why include rockets if they're a balancing catastrophe

Lord Dusteon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Count Tobi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kpHp8RUQ,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-02-20T04:27:26.664+0000)

I'm asking why include rockets if they're a balancing catastrophe

....They aren't? If her minigun isn't up Jinx has ATROCIOUS damage; she has one great shot from her stacks, and then she sits there, slowly piddling away. Either she gets her squishy little immobile butt closer to use her minigun or she sits back and hopes the other adc is bad and doesn't press the massive DPS they have.

5G8Nri0B545 votes

They aren't.

Their DPS is godawful due to her horrendous attack speed plus the fact that each hit consumes a fair bit of mana. The splashing damage has tactical uses, and the range gives her something to do until it is safe enough to go in with the minigun.

Overall this is a clear and obvious trade-off between using minigun or rockets.

Count Tobi1 votes

Thank you so much, for a good honest opinion that has no biased at all and just some slight opinion. Bless you even if you happen not to be religious.

mvargus3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Count Tobi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kpHp8RUQ,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-02-20T04:27:26.664+0000)

I'm asking why include rockets if they're a balancing catastrophe

They aren't a balance catastrophe.

Something you obviously aren't aware of Jinx has the lowest base attack speed of all ADC champs. If she's using her rockets her attacks are painfully slow.

Yes, with her minigun she has the fastest attack speed once she has leveled her Q to level 5 and reached level 18, but that requires time and planning.

In truth the rockets are mainly for poke, initially launching an AOE attack into teamfights if the enemy is clustered and late game waveclear. Jinx should be using her minigun the majority of the time as it has a much higher DPS than the rocket launcher.

Meep Man1 votes

{quoted}

Are you asking why rockets do splash damage?

Are you asking why we eat potatos?

Zouave2 votes

"ya he's op" -einstein in conference of 1951.

Count Tobi1 votes

that gets an up-vote

Count Tobi1 votes

Slower attack speed you say, and yet that slower attack speed is a result of her Q? So you're insisting that she should have no trade-off? If she can cleave don't give her extra range, if she has extra range, don't give her cleave, there's your trade-off

MrSlowDie2 votes

so you want the minigun has longer range but the rocket has shorter range?

Count Tobi1 votes

I want cookies to have chocolate chip and muffins to have a container wrapped around it yes.

Gear Kitty5 votes

This is the only intelligent thing you've said in the whole thread, as long as the muffin doesn't lose too much to the paper cup sticking to it.

Count Tobi1 votes

I'm confused why I'm being downvoted, honestly. Is her fanbase that big?

Dyonas9 votes

I'll bite. You're being downvoted for a number of reasons. Take your pick from the following list.

  1. You're condescending.
  2. You're comparing something from a different game that nobody here cares about.
  3. You're trying to say she's unbalanced when she's probably the most balanced ADC.
  4. Nobody cares.
  5. You're either an awful troll or someone who values his opinion very highly. See number 4.
Count Tobi1 votes

Nobody even answer the questioned of how it's logical to make a ranged hero cleave just for a mana-cost. Should we make a hero that's melee and autoattacks with ranged at mana per autoattack? If so what's the point of being melee, or even a ranged who should be a risk-taker.

Solidair36 votes

you are literally describing kayle.

and jinx isn't even a balancing nightmare. she's perfectly balanced. I beat jinx up CONSTANTLY with ASHE of all carries.

Seriously, get it together man.

Centuros4 votes

Kayle is melee, and just has some sort of ranged-cleave buff for a mana cost for some reason (which she wants to have up as much as possible, because that's how things work...).

Also, it sounds like your saying her other abilities are bad, so what's the problem with her AOE making up for that? It does cause you to run out of mana really fast if you ever use your Zap!, though.

Also, what does the picture have to do with this thread?

Count Tobi1 votes

it's a balance joke

Onegarion4 votes

then you really need to learn to deliver better or stop joking around. You've accomplished nothing here, but making yourself look bad.

Count Tobi1 votes

This comment disgusts me so much, because I've already made myself look bad, and you still think I'm joking, you are so cynical it makes me feel like an amateur.

Jefftiffy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Count Tobi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kpHp8RUQ,comment-id=00080001000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-20T06:34:08.351+0000)

This comment disgusts me so much, because I've already made myself look bad, and you still think I'm joking, you are so cynical it makes me feel like an amateur.

I want to know what kind of diction are you using on forums. I can use more informed words and an expanded vocabulary too. But I don't do it on forums because it is so informal and always sounds condescending. I mean i could use expanded vocabulary if I felt like it, but this is supposed to be casual not formal.

And you yourself has made yourself look bad no one else. You have yet to admit that mana is a huge trade off for range when her normal range is low and has bad base AS.

Count Tobi1 votes

I don't know why you keep chasing down my posts just to downvote me, but for a minute there you got me to question what I'm doing with my life. All I want to do son, is make balance patches, and here you go, ruining things against for me. If it's not about DotA it's about my diction, if not my diction, some self-asserting rant that perhaps I am more ignorant than even you. And that is when i feel I've lost my way.

Major Sparkles1 votes

Go on. Sounds like you've got a lot on your chest.

Ice Weasel X7 votes

{quoted}

Go on. Sounds like you've got a lot on your chest.

Never thought I'd see those words in a Jinx thread.

Gear Kitty4 votes

/slow claps

Major Sparkles1 votes

Oh man! I'm dying here.

WarlockLaw1 votes

In a 1v1 her rockets are absolutely useless. She has much better dps against a single target with her mini gun, her rockets are for clumped enemies or for targets you don't want to be in their range (any assass in and most bruisers).

More from Gameplay

More by Count Tobi