Why the Sterak's nerf isn't so bad

TehNACHO··2 votes·665 views

So Sterak's Gage got nerfed, -100 HP from what it was originally. Oh no, Fighters are fucked, ADCs are still going to abuse the anti-burst, yada yada now let's think of this with math and logic.

First, Armor Penetration. This may sound really off point but just stick with me here. I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge by now but if you need a refresher, Flat Penetration is stronger against enemies with little armor and % Penetration is stronger against enemies with a lot of Armor. I graphed this out if you need a visual representation (Green is Flat Penetration, Red is "AD", Blue is % Penetration, and the x axis is enemy Armor). What I want to point out with this example is that this applies to all stats. If you have low base Movement Speed, a Flat MS buff or slow has dramatically greater effect than a % change, and vice versa if you have high base Movement Speed. If you have little health, a Flat HP buff is rather substantial to you.

You should be able to tell where this is going. ADCs do not build that much health, and if they do build Sterak's Gage, it tends to just be Sterak's Gage. On the other hand, Health Fighters often stack nothing but Health items when they can. Can you tell me then, between the 2500 HP Marksman or the 5000+ HP Juggernaut, who's going to notice the Flat HP loss the most.

And I mean I get that some Health Fighters will be effected. However, the three "Official" Juggernauts that regularly use Sterak's anyway (DariusIllaoiMordekaiser) already have sub 50% win rates, and according to champion.gg, are well below average in overall categories (which yes, includes other factors like Damage Dealt and KDA instead of just factoring win rate) for their lane with the exception of Darius who is just straight down the middle of top lane's overall performance. Quite frankly, this simply looks like that if HP Fighters using Sterak's are underperforming, the problem lies in the champions themselves instead of within Sterak's. Hell I'd argue this is a good thing since that means they more rightfully deserve compensatory buffs to deal with the loss to their already underperforming power budgets/gives them less of a balance crutch on their kit since their itemization isn't as powerful.

So what does this mean?

The Sterak's nerf is doing its job in hurting the squishy ADCs abusing them over the HP Juggernauts that the item is intended for. Furthermore, as the Juggernauts who use Sterak's anyway are underperforming even before the nerf, and since the nerf to Sterak's shaves off the top of their power budgets, this opens up the door to fair compensatory buffs without accidentally going overboard (for example if their kits AND their items are too powerful). All in all, good things in general from Sterak's.

Of course this more or less means the complaining about Sterak's should turn into complaining about the weak Juggernauts that happen to use Sterak's, but hey, at least we'd be complaining about the right things then.

11 Comments

Critmaster Garen2 votes
  • 100 steraks
  • 100 veterans scars
  • 100 dead mans

"oh no, they wont miss that 100 health. theyre stacking health anyways" yea, guess what, if you keep this shit going long enough it becomes noticable.

i have two questions about this nerf

  1. why didnt they do something that made more sense? make the item melee only. change the shield scaling to bonus hp. put a health threshold on it. make the shield only 50% for ranged champs. any of the dozens of options they had to tune the item to be the same for juggs and tanks while being weaker for champions who became too safe with it

  2. if they really wanted to go through with the nerf, then why no compensation buffs to the champions the item is intended for? increase their health/lvl to get 100 health back at lvl 18.

the 100 health nerf is a half assed attempt at fixing abuse cases

TehNACHO1 votes
  1. The big elephant in the room when it comes to the melee restrictions is Graves, one of the more naturally bulky and "Fighter like" Marksman who we really shouldn't shun but is likewise effected by those two nerfs you suggested. I should note though that the bonus HP change and health threshold change follow similar ideals to what I was trying to point out with the "high stat low stat" comparisons.

  2. Were you here when Meddler was talking about Udyr's nerfs? Perhaps it's a similar case of "we know there's a problem here. Let's start slow with the changes instead of trying to carpet bomb everything."

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

  1. The big elephant in the room when it comes to the melee restrictions is Graves, one of the more naturally bulky and "Fighter like" Marksman who we really shouldn't shun but is likewise effected by those two nerfs you suggested. I should note though that the bonus HP change and health threshold change follow similar ideals to what I was trying to point out with the "high stat low stat" comparisons.

  2. Were you here when Meddler was talking about Udyr's nerfs? Perhaps it's a similar case of "we know there's a problem here. Let's start slow with the changes instead of trying to carpet bomb everything."

well, yea.

fuckin graves is one of the worst abusers when it comes to steraks. especially with his bonus resitances and knockback his new kit was never designed with the thought in mind to also use bruiser items. the thing just synergizes too well with him.

TehNACHO1 votes

Yeah.

.

Saying that doesn't really lead to more conversation.

RocketRelm2 votes

I think why everyone's mad is less the nerfs and more that these are the WRONG nerfs. Giving it some kind of scaling on HP (like Cinderhulk), or making the shield apply X% of your Base HP and 3X% your Bonus HP such that tanks get proportionally more, would have done more to curb the issue.

TehNACHO1 votes

3 times your bonus HP is a tad too much, and I think would simply create the balance crutch that is a way too strong item all Health Fighters would need to be rebalanced around (^ ^')

Also I think you should rephrase what you're saying. You never actually say anything about how the nerfs are the wrong nerfs, all your post is about is the missing compensatory buffs to go along with it.

Cherysse1 votes

I hope you are right and they receive compensatory buffs, because so far they need them, I just hope they don't end up overbuffed.

can you see my custom item? I've made an icon for it! http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/buOIBEzA-the-phoenixs-talon-icon-made-by-me-3

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin_data/qd31zm/ThePhoenixTalon.jpg

[slayer-jinx-wink]

LilxPaprika1 votes

It needed a change not a nerf. making an item less expensive isn't a nerf imo. for example I think IE got buffed from the old one. Its more affordable now less struggle to build. BF sword easier to get first item now. price needs to have an adjustment reflecting the change. Its not the right way to nerf the item imo. just make the shield scale more with hp, and a lot less base shield, like the old cinderhulk. It should be a later item like atmas used to be.

X8ViEhkPS01 votes

I think Riot needs to decide if they should even allow Juggernauts to exist in their game first before they edit itemization. Yes it is a cool fantasy, but I don't think it is healthy for the game.

Unless they end up doing ludicrous amounts of damage while being unkillable (juggernaut patch), they end up failing to do anything. Which is the case now where there are other champions building the items they would like while having much more success.

This problem leads to one of two things the itemization is over tuned which leads to non class abuse cases. Exactly the reason that Sterak's Gauge is getting nerfed. Or the class being way over tuned, this was the case on the juggernaut patch.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Actually, the part you're not mentioning is the change in gold efficiency focus associated with the Sterak's changes:

By swapping out the Ruby Crystal in the recipe for a Long Sword, Sterak's components now give 25 AD. The completed item gives 25% additional base AD. That means that, for the item to not lose stats on completion, you'd need 100 base AD.

In general, ADCs only get to 100 base AD by level 17 to 18, if at all - for example, Quinn caps at 95 AD. Juggernauts, on the other hand, get 100 base AD by level 10-12.

TehNACHO1 votes

Good point, nice catching that.

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