Is there anything about Tryndamere that needs the slightest amount of skills?
I wonder.
I wonder.
Aside from being a squishy melee with no hard cc and only one form mobility and the only survivability he has is on a 2 minute cooldown and only lasts a few seconds?
What are you even talking about?
What are you even talking about?
- He has a hard cc that can be used even if the player has no "skill" to right click on a target.
A slow is not hard cc
1.) You might want to educate yourself before taking part in these conversations. Slow is not a hard CC, it is a soft CC. 2.) He is definitely on the lower side of mobility when you look at mobility creep. His E is terrible for mobility if it isnt used to clear a wall, or you dont have minions to hit immediately afterwards. 3.) His heal is also directly tied to his damage. if he is using his "most powerful self heal" then he is significantly weaker because of it.
What are you even talking about?
- He has a hard cc that can be used even if the player has no "skill" to right click on a target.
- Only form of mobility that cannot be escaped since it is one of the biggest dash in the entire game and it reduces its own cooldown to zero if Trynd hits anything. Oh and it just goes through terrains because why not.
- He has top3 most powerful self-healing in the game and he is immortal. That is 2 from the begin with. Squishy you say, yet noone builds anything else then offensive items on him because, well, immortals don't need protection. His immortality has such a low cooldown he can ult in every single fight then just tp home. By the time he walks back to lane it is up again. Also, it lasts enough to finish a teamfight during it.
- Nothing you said was an answer to my question.
1: it isnt hard cc. and its only impactful if the enemy is facing awya 2:He has one way in, and then no way out. Cc him after he dashes and he cant do anytrhing. 3:that healing doesnt matter when he instantly dies anyway. His R is 5 seconds only. A stun will let your team easily back away from him and wait out the ultimate. 4:
Aside from being a squishy melee with no hard cc and only one form mobility and the only survivability he has is on a 2 minute cooldown and only lasts a few seconds?
Squishy Melee: Kiteable and has a hard time actually getting to people in fights no hard cc: Cant lock people down well for gank assist. One form of mobility: He can only enter or leave a fight, not both. Ultimate cd/duration:Once every few minutes he can be unkillable. Simply disengage and re-engage 30 seconds later.
I get mentioning his weak parts , but don't mention his dash and ult as weak abilities , His E is one of the best dashes in the game and it gets a lower CD every time he crits , his Ultimate is literally one of the best ultimates in the game , it's 5 damn seconds.
He takes an equivalent amount of skill to many others that people insist are higher skill cap. Most of the right-clickers tend to be very close to one another in regards to skill floor. His splitpush-centric style might even require slightly above average map awareness compared to the average right-clicker.
[{quoted}](name=Hemulen Magi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjsPaT4f,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2020-02-21T00:48:42.084+0000)
He takes an equivalent amount of skill to many others that people insist are higher skill cap. Most of the right-clickers tend to be very close to one another in regards to skill floor. His splitpush-centric style might even require slightly above average map awareness compared to the average right-clicker.
This. I find him much harder than most right clickers and any good trynd has really good map and macro knowledge. It's always good watching trynd YouTubers for that reason imo
playing tryndamere sometimes feels like playing with extra weights. his kit contains almost nothing compared to other champions. he is walking bulk of stats. his w animation is sometimes slow af, and most players don't even try to juke his w buy turning around anyway. his ult often just an escape tool. he has obnoxious splitpushing and dive potential but thats it i guess.
At low elo, no, at high elo where people know how to itemize and counter pick and actually play, yes
Orb walking in step with your opponent is an absolute necessity on trynd. I find it far more difficult than attack moving on a ranged champion.
Using your e properly. You have to kind of guess where your opponent is and e on where they're going to be while also sliding through them to not only get the damage but be in a place to auto after.
Reaction time and knowledge of when to ult. Keeping track of opponents abilities and damage to know exactly when you have to ult to maximize it. This plays into tower aggro and tower diving which good tryndameres are amazing at. Like the ones who turn to take a tower shot right before their ult goes off to survive.
I actually find trynd difficult imo. And matchup knowledge is super important. Kind of like playing Jax.
So, whilst I think that there are things that are difficult about Trynd, I think that most of your post is... not really hitting on them. Orb walking applies to every AA-based melee champion. Even on someone like Yi who CAN stick without orb walking you lose a lot of damage in doing so. Tryndamere's slow and very low CD E mean that this is less of a concern for him as he only needs to get like 2 AAs off between Es later on in the game.
Match-up knowledge applies to every champion. It is particularly important in top lane, but not really moreso for Trynd than other champions. The fundamental way you approach every lane is the same. You do not have to make significant changes to runes, items or max order. Camille maxes all 3 abilities first depending on match-up (W only to 3 points), has keystones she takes in single specific match-ups (Phase Rush into Nasus, Comet into Teemo) as well as needing to change between Grasp, Conqueror and Press the Attack depending on other match-ups and has almost wholly different playstyles in different lanes. I regard that as match-up knowledge being a "minor increase to difficulty" since it's not like you're totally boned even if you don't do all of this.
The only thing I think you touched on that is true is optimising his ult. I also think that Trynd has a heavy macro burden and map awareness requirement. I think that a lot of his macro is fairly unique to him due to his unique mechanics as a splitpusher (read: ult) and that he can be difficult to play into certain team compositions. There's also things like denying your opponent CS with W when they are not in a position to punish you that offer more subtle skill expression. I do not think that his ult particularly has a "reaction time" difficulty that is more significant than any champion with a dash or untargetability.
So, whilst I think that there are things that are difficult about Trynd, I think that most of your post is... not really hitting on them. Orb walking applies to every AA-based melee champion. Even on someone like Yi who CAN stick without orb walking you lose a lot of damage in doing so. Tryndamere's slow and very low CD E mean that this is less of a concern for him as he only needs to get like 2 AAs off between Es later on in the game.
Match-up knowledge applies to every champion. It is particularly important in top lane, but not really moreso for Trynd than other champions. The fundamental way you approach every lane is the same. You do not have to make significant changes to runes, items or max order. Camille maxes all 3 abilities first depending on match-up (W only to 3 points), has keystones she takes in single specific match-ups (Phase Rush into Nasus, Comet into Teemo) as well as needing to change between Grasp, Conqueror and Press the Attack depending on other match-ups and has almost wholly different playstyles in different lanes. I regard that as match-up knowledge being a "minor increase to difficulty" since it's not like you're totally boned even if you don't do all of this.
The only thing I think you touched on that is true is optimising his ult. I also think that Trynd has a heavy macro burden and map awareness requirement. I think that a lot of his macro is fairly unique to him due to his unique mechanics as a splitpusher (read: ult) and that he can be difficult to play into certain team compositions. There's also things like denying your opponent CS with W when they are not in a position to punish you that offer more subtle skill expression. I do not think that his ult particularly has a "reaction time" difficulty that is more significant than any champion with a dash or untargetability.
I think matchup knowledge is more of a top Lane thing than anything else. And at least to me I notice it alot on champs like Jax and trynd. I don't ever feel as reliant on Windows and matchup knowledge in mid or bot.
And yeah I know melee orbwalking applies to more champs but that was my point. I find orbwalking on melee much harder than range.
I still also think tryndameres e is really hard to use effectively.
For the most part the "effective use" of Tryndamere's E is just spinning straight through your opponent without hugely overstepping them. There's definitely skill expression there but I don't think it's even beginning to touch the top 50% of difficult abilities.
I wonder.
Getting 3 crits in a row with 20% crit is skill!
It is a fun and interesting lane :D