Dont tell me that shields weakness is that there temporary

Chess1·Mar 22, 2017·6 votes·1,270 views

E with 37% cdr( )is 5 cd the ability lasts 4 seconds ........... E with 37% cdr(same items as karma)is 5 cd and the shield lasts ........... for 6 seconds????? although much less of a problem is the same as lulu much more of an issue but his is the same except it can go as low as 4 cd. However it only lasts 2 seconds cd looks really high but if you max it can be a 6 second cd and lasts 5 seconds but, is limited to only magic damage

Why is this a problem?Well first off shields(from enchanters) are not having their intended weakness What makes this even worse though is all of these shields have an added benefit to them How to fix it?Either remove abundance of cdr to supports(however would feel unfair as their predecessors all have cdr options)or nerf the champions themselves.

23 Comments

PhDs NutsMar 22, 20171 votes

lol the longest you listed is 6 seconds.

Nautilus That's cute

Chess1Mar 22, 20171 votes

Yea but he doesent buy item 3107 item 3504 item 3190 item 3174

Inuyasha99999Mar 22, 20171 votes

he can

Chess1Mar 22, 20171 votes

shhhhhhh dont let them know secret op

RalanrMar 22, 20171 votes

He still uses shields. And would get hurt more by shield nerfs.

Chess1Mar 22, 20171 votes

? how i meant to nerf shield supports mb

RabblerouserMar 22, 20171 votes

item 3070 Taric

Chess1Mar 22, 20171 votes

i wish he was stronger 2 :(

Taliyah RocksMar 22, 20171 votes

Sure, lategame most shields can be kept up permanently.

But early, they cost quite a chunk of mana, and must be used preemptively when you want to block poke and small trades, otherwise their potential is wasted.

Also unlike heals, their value is lost when not depleted.

Chess1Mar 22, 20171 votes

Lulu and Karma both only cost 60 mana at lvl 1 Remember these supports now have a mana regen stat so with one mana item and two of the support items cost dont matter at all Also they have the potential to heal the target item 3504 item 3174 however i mostly agree on the early game part , but these supports can warp the late game with just item 2301 item 3190

RabblerouserMar 22, 20171 votes

That's assuming shields are the only thing they do. They're also gated by mana. Karma in particular used to be infamous for being mana-thirsty. I used to play with Karmas that would literally snipe blue buff and cheekily say "I need dis".

Lulu doesn't build Athene's. She goes a more Janna-like build. Karma MIGHT build Athene's but I haven't seen it in a while. They mostly follow the same as others.

I'm not sure if Lulu's ult works with heal items. Also, Karma can't heal others, only herself with her ulted tether. Athene's and Ardent work with her shields, though.

EDIT: Actualy, Lulu's ult is worded weirdly for EXACTLY THAT REASON. It does not work with Redemption/Ardent/Forbidden's heal passive! It's technically not a heal apparently.

Chess1Mar 22, 20171 votes

the problem is , thats not the only thing they do Why? they have insanley powerful shields and godlike ultimates(besides karma but her ult gives herm ore power early game)plus good poke(not janna)

Into The AetherMar 22, 20171 votes

It's still the case that the weakness is being temporary. Not windowed, which is what you're talking about, but temporary.

If you heal someone for 100HP, then 5 seconds later heal them again, that's 200HP. Then again 5 seconds later, thats 300HP.

Shield someone for 100HP, then 5 seconds later another 100HP, it's never going to exceed 100HP in shielding. The shield has to be interacted with to do something.

Chess1Mar 22, 20171 votes

item 3504 item 3174 Also Lulu Janna also have heals Karma your right about her I think shields have way higher value above heals(unless you consider item 3072 )simply because they have a keystone mastery AND have item choices(while still having great stats)But heals only have one item item 3065 HOWEVER the biggest reason is grievous wounds

Into The AetherMar 22, 20172 votes

The masteries and support items that boost shields also boost healing.

Windspeakers, Runic Armor, every support item with passive +bonus shielding also provides bonus healing, Ardent Censer and Athene's passives work with heals.

And on top of that, as you noted, Spirit Visage actually only boosts one. Heals.

Grievous Wounds does only work on the one, yeah. That sorta serves to help differentiate them more. Heals can get an in-combat reduction, but stack up into legitimate sustain outside of combat. Shields don't do much of anything outside of combat, but can't be straight up item countered in combat.

I don't think nerfing support in general is that great of a concept. It's still the least popular role. It's still the role thats hardest to have a decisive impact with, and should legitimately, flat out, screw you over and decide your game as often as any of the other four.

Maybe Ivern's a problem, his win rate's a little high in the jungle, but I dunno if that's entirely based on his shields. Plus he's the odd duck, since even if it is the shield, he's adding it in from an unusual spot on the team, letting you reach different thresholds than other setups would.

Chess1Mar 22, 20171 votes

Forgot that heals work with them sustain out of combat isn't an issue when your teammates get lifesteal however it does help the midlaner Maybe they can tone down the items? i think locket redemption is a must on most supports and then knights vow is somewhat a must as one of your slots as a supp tank My issue also is that all supports can take bond of stone to make them also have healing however windspeakers armor is probably valued higher

Chess1Mar 22, 20171 votes

also heals generally have a longer cooldown

RabblerouserMar 22, 20171 votes

While item 3174 does have high CDR and a supporty passive, it's less likely to be seen on anyone other than Sona since you need damage for those charges.

Lulu and Janna "heals" are gated by their ults, though... and they usually save those for peeling off divers. These champs whole IDENTITIES are to be c***blocks. Lulu may be a little over the top, I'll admit... but it's not really her shields that are the problem. She's just overloaded.

I'm... not really sure if Lulu's ult works with the item 3114 items' heal/shield empowering.

The typical build for shield supports goes item 3107 rush for 10% item 3301 's finished item which gives 10% item 3190 NO cdr item 3504 10% Boots and last item situational which COULD lift them up to 40-45% based on masteries

Suffice to say... IT TAKES TIME TO GET ALL THIS and hardly speaks to their effectiveness given by the time you've built this much CDR, one side or the other's already probably established enough of a foothold to chew through shields anyways.

Don't just think of end-game, but thinks you can do early to sway the endgame in your favor when Janna still has only ~10% CDR. If your Xin/Draven/w.e get fed enough to chew through the shield, they still have to wait out the entire CD before they put another one up. By then, they'll have used Janna 'nado, slow, ult... Lulu Polymorph, slow, ult to try and peel you off.

RabblerouserMar 22, 20171 votes

Add to this Janna isn't really an additive member to the team since she does negligible damage. She's multiplicative. If her AD is bad, she can't "multiply" his power right, if you catch my drift. :V

You can't peel through stupid.

EDIT: Sorry, I just realized, most of my posts are from my perspective with Janna.

Chess1Mar 22, 20171 votes

So 5% cd from masteries(most go windspeakers)ancient coin complete and forbidden idol.That is 23% cdr that is alot of cdr for just 1650 g and take 250 off of that because you start with 500 g and you got 1400 23% cdr.forrbidden idol and ancient coin block the need for mana cost problems and now you have a almost ended early game late game monster of a support.