Rioters dont speak alot because

Chess1·Jun 15, 2017·120 votes·3,339 views

ANYTHING they say will be used against them later at any point in time so they have to be EXTREMELY careful when they respond to feedback.

103 Comments

DunkinNoobsJun 16, 201713 votes

"We don't want to buff Sej and thrust her right back into the spotlight."

Cue the crying of 10,000 Lee Sin whiners.

NiceTryViJun 16, 20173 votes

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot Lee Sin has never been in the spotlight for 4 years. Oh wait, its the opposite. People want Lee nerfed because hes oppressive and prevents diversity in the jungle.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 16, 20172 votes

There are still people claiming lee sin doesn't shape the meta. Tho lee sin basically makes it impossible for champs like heca, amumu and others to even be viable as junglers as long as he exists. Unless they are grossely overpowered i might add.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 15, 201712 votes

I agree that Riot has a pretty unfair burden placed on them by the community.

What do you think is a reasonable solution to that? Is there something that you think could help fix it?

Nightingales SkyJun 15, 20177 votes

{quoted}

I agree that Riot has a pretty unfair burden placed on them by the community.

What do you think is a reasonable solution to that? Is there something that you think could help fix it?

One of the biggest issues is the disconnection between the playerbase and Riot. There have been times when Riot has listened to the playerbase and changed certain things to appease them even though it went against what Riot wanted to do and the community hailed it. On the flip side there are many more occasions were Riot flat out didn't listen, ignored the playerbase, or pretty much dropped communication.

Yes, the community is like a pack of wild dogs barking whatever comes to mind first. However, there are plenty of forums and posts with intelligent request, suggestions, and even so far down to it, the math for buffs/nerfs.

One example I can think of is right before they released 'Lunar Princess' Diana there was a petition signed by hundreds of players begging them to delay it and fix the skin. A majority of Diana players did not like the skin and gave ideas, concepts, art, etc. to Riot. However, they copped out by saying it was too late in the development stage to change anything and pushed it out anyways. This angered and felt like a knife in the back to everyone suggesting anything with a rational argument.

On the flip side I remember seeing a lot of post about dynamic queue and how everyone was just attacking instead of suggesting anything that could help the problem. My two cents; Riot needs to come back and start communicating more often again.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 15, 20178 votes

So, I don't disagree with that, but I think Riot has a decent reason NOT to.

Did you see this thread? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/mg1RWfwL-meddler-we-dont-know-yet-if-ancient-coin-is-weak-or-if-frost-queen-is-overpowered

I see a pretty decent argument, as a Rioter, that it's better not to speak when that's how the community reacts.

My question was more about the boards than about Riot. Obviously, Riot could spend more time in boards. But what can we do to make that something they are interested in?

AirKingNeoJun 16, 20172 votes

To be fair, what the Rioter said is something most consider very stupid because it's fairly obvious Coin sucks. If they say something that dumb, obviously someone should point it out. If no one points it out, no one learns.

doodlebob666Jun 16, 20172 votes

that quote was never said it was a miss read that for some reason got upvoted

ModKnightsKemplarJun 16, 20175 votes

Indeed, DOODLEBOB666 is correct. That's what I mean.

A Rioter never said that, and here you are calling them dumb for a quote that isn't even real...

I don't blame them for avoiding the sub-board, with that being the case.

AirKingNeoJun 16, 20171 votes

Hey, I had no idea if it was said or not. Assume it was said for the purpose of what I said.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 16, 20176 votes

...

but that's exactly the reason that Riot doesn't want to talk here. People just assume that any dirt said about them is true, and they love to hate on them for it. That drives them away from boards.

OldDirtayJun 16, 20172 votes

if riot isnt responding here because of what they think, someone thinks about them.....

we have a SERIOUS problem

if its some made up line then you dont respond to it, if its a quote from you guys posted from a bunch of different people and its got plenty of upvotes to be noticed there is no reason you shouldnt be in there

frankly this blanket excuse is 2nd grade-ish "we didnt answer any of the threads about how dynamic que will mess up match quality or skew rankings etc (insert any example you would like) because we felt that jimmy believed that we'd go to the moon and we didnt (insert any OTHER example here that is not the first)"

thats dumb, we should be acting like adults and not...not doing our job.....because....almost anything, esp not how someone feels about something thats not even true...

do i really have to say this stuff? has it gotten to the point we have to literally start from the ground/2nd grade up?

Sraeg2013Jun 16, 20171 votes

So instead of correcting a glaring mistake or misinformation they'd rather bunker themselves in the basement and let the misguided hate flow?

That's just childish.

I don't agree with Meddler on a lot of things, but he did the right thing to speak up.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 16, 20171 votes

He did. And, to be clear, I'm NOT saying that bunkering up is the best response.

I AM saying that I understand it. It's not fun to continually expose yourself to being mis-representing and hated on when you are just trying to help. There's nothing chlidish about that; that's just human nature. People don't regularly put themselves in places where they feel like they aren't helping AND they are getting hated on. Do you regularly do that?

We can do better, as a sub-board, at making the environment better. If we do that, I staunchly believe that will cause Riot to post here more often. You can hate on that if you want, but it doesn't change the reality. If we make it easier for them to post, they will post more. That's a pretty solid cause-effect if you ask me.

Sraeg2013Jun 16, 20172 votes

Can we really do better though?

Frankly I don't know what this whole "Warden" shtick is about, but I assume some kind of low-tier subboard-specific moderation, no?

First thing would be to weed out all shitposts and properly "reward" people for them. Ya'know, threads like:

"Champion X is broken/OP/etc." "Title"

To show those low-lives they add nothing of substance increasing overall quality of discussions. I believe that would require a change in "guidelines" which is, in fact, Riot's responsibility. Sadly.

Beginning with the forum basics instead of trying to change who people are. You can have at the latter, but the former is easier to do and has longer lasting effects.

The sad part is the moderation would rather ban people for cleavage/innuendo images in Memes & Games than to clean up the joke that Gameplay & Balance is.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 16, 20171 votes

Well, it isn't exactly low-level. We are the new mods for the boards. And there will be updated guidelines posted soon, actually, as part of the change in management. Keep an eye out for those, and feel free to leave more feedback about those on our intro thread here.

Sraeg2013Jun 16, 20173 votes

Iyada, uso, masaka!

Does that mean we will actually get half-decent moderators who actually know, understand and adhere to the forum's rules?

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/097/927/ea2.gif

ModKnightsKemplarJun 16, 20172 votes

That's the goal! Please call us out if you feel we aren't living up to that! Just report the stuff that doesn't adhere to the rules, and we should take care of it! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

TwitchInMyPantsJun 16, 20178 votes

{quoted}

So, I don't disagree with that, but I think Riot has a decent reason NOT to.

Did you see this thread? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/mg1RWfwL-meddler-we-dont-know-yet-if-ancient-coin-is-weak-or-if-frost-queen-is-overpowered

I see a pretty decent argument, as a Rioter, that it's better not to speak when that's how the community reacts.

My question was more about the boards than about Riot. Obviously, Riot could spend more time in boards. But what can we do to make that something they are interested in?

Out of the tons of threads Janna x Rubick has made maybe 2 have been positive towards Riot. The dude is a total detractor, he's looking for blood in the water all the time. And he's downvoted like crazy for his erratic response. I don't think the fact that a game with MILLIONS of players should be shutting down communication because of a vocal minority that even the board lurkers that like to complain don't even agree with.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 16, 20173 votes

Well, I won't comment on anyone in particular, but I can tell you that I agree. No one person should have the power to ruin a good thing for everyone else.

I can tell you that all of the Gameplay Wardens agree with you there, and we are going to do our best to turn that around. I'm not asking for everyone to be positive to Riot all the time, but I think you can be respectful and still deliver constructive criticism. We're going to try to be point-runners on that one around here. If you have any specific ideas about how to accomplish that, feel free to let me know (or make a new thread about it!).

Chess1Jun 15, 20171 votes

Not really its jsut unfortunate that One word mistake can ruin a rioters perspective

DreadlocksJun 15, 20174 votes

I think if Riot communicated more often then the issue wouldnt be as bad. Sure you are going to have people taking things out of context, thats part of the way they chose to communicate. They use to have those 10-15 min videos talking about each patch. Patch Roundup Table? Or something.

Another thing i dislike, is that in a recent out-cry from not only Rengar players, but many others, saying that Rengar's issues were NOT fixed with the rework and to readdress him. When we finally got a response it was, "we have nothing planned for the future as of now." and the guy even stated that they see the posts, they read the comments, and they all collaborate before posting.. So you mean to tell me after all that time they watched and read, the best they could give us is "we got nothing"?

If Riot isn't trying to please the playerbase by fixing a broken champion, then what is the point? You had people who loved playing old Rengar, and people who hated vsing it, now you have people that dislike playing the rework, but also still hate playing it... Why can't they just admit they messed up and revisit liek they did with Kog and Malz?

Chess1Jun 15, 20173 votes

there isnt unlimited rioters then can mostly work on one champ at a time.the reason they had nothing planned for rengar is because it came out the blue THEY thought he was fine what you want them to make good kit changes within 1 week?

TwitchInMyPantsJun 16, 20173 votes

{quoted}

there isnt unlimited rioters then can mostly work on one champ at a time.the reason they had nothing planned for rengar is because it came out the blue THEY thought he was fine what you want them to make good kit changes within 1 week?

It didn't come out of the blue at all though, it's been ongoing for a long time. The rework happened ages ago and while the initial responders are just overreacting, a lot of complaints about Rengar have been consistent. I don't agree that he's unplayable but his rework actually made his kit more toxic and forced his base power level on his skills down. Like most old Rengar mains would rather just have a little more damage or base stats instead of ignoring cc.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 16, 20171 votes

I think if Riot communicated more often then the issue wouldnt be as bad.

Communicate more ?? What do u mean ? Meddler already create 2-3 thread each Weak. playtester team at least once per patch...

Another thing i dislike, is that in a recent out-cry from not only Rengar players, but many others, saying that Rengar's issues were NOT fixed with the rework and to readdress him. When we finally got a response it was,

And ? u had ur response. Just wait. Rengar mains acted like spoiled brats... and obviously it dosn't help. And won't make riot more communicate

DreadlocksJun 16, 20172 votes

To the boards? Also, spoiled brats? How ignorant are u? They've worked on so many champions because they failed on them or they needed tweaks. Reksai, kindred, malz, kog, and to an extent hiemer. Now theyre looking into leblanc and even asking for the communities opinion on yasuo and why hes banned so much, why hes fun to play not not fun to vs etc. BUT NONE of these efforts of riot have been aimed at Rengar and we are acting like spoiled brats? My god open your eyes.

GULAG 4 UJun 15, 20174 votes

Truthfully? There really isn't. All gaming communities have this "bitchy" characteristic to it. It's worse on some (Hearthstone and league subreddit notably). Even though these forums are really really whiny, it's not as bad as other places. The fix would simply to be riot actively criticizing the ideas of the community, but why bother when you can simply ignore?

JunkοJun 16, 20175 votes

This wouldn't be a problem if they didn't say they are going to do stuff they have no 100% intentions of doing. Like listening to feedback on kit updates from mains, they said they will, but they just shafted the mains aside and did what they thought was right, and turns out they didn't know better than people who decided most of their time playing LoL to those champions.

Sraeg2013Jun 16, 20173 votes

For example before MYMU completely nobody called what 3-sphere throw will do. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/bAdlmuhI-as-of-419-pbe-syndras-mymu-is-poised-to-make-her-worse-and-unhealthy

Riot completely didn't scrap that Syndra change a few months later, because it was utterly missed and unbalanceable.

KarfussJun 16, 20174 votes

I would agree, if Riot previously had better communication on issues in the past and has since withdrawn itself.

That has never been the case. They never really spoke a lot, except with the occasional 'play with Riot' or forum games.

Nightingales SkyJun 15, 20173 votes

Not really. Yes, there are a lot of trolls out there, but, I rarely saw the playerbase actually use soemthing they said so against them it would cause them to go radio silent. Riot, has and always will have a problem with communication. They use to be pretty good at it but over the years they pretty much stopped with the RED post altogether.

Chess1Jun 15, 201734 votes

Rengar

SlythionJun 15, 201716 votes

Dynamic Queue

shudders

Doctor JarvisJun 15, 201744 votes

Ao Shin

Chess1Jun 15, 201711 votes

DreadlocksJun 15, 20177 votes

Yeah a big "we got nothing but we can clearly see hundreds of you hate it, suck it up, ur fucked"

No one has given us any of the slightest hope of even addressing the concerns.

LeetriJun 15, 201724 votes

No matter what they do hundreds will still dislike Rengar. The old Rengar was hated by thousands if not millions because he wasn't fun to play against, which is why he was reworked. Can't please everyone, sadly.

DreadlocksJun 15, 20174 votes

I could say the same thing about MANY MANY other champions and they havnt been touched either. OR at the very least, turned into something they are not. i.e changing class. And since wen is losing fun lol.

Won't even go into how he can still 1-shot in an extremely gimicky way.

SlythionJun 16, 20176 votes

Old Rengar was an unbalanceable champion that would burst people in .3 champions

MANY MANY other champions and they havnt been touched either

most of the assassin rework was to "touch" champions like this as well, not sure how you can make any sort of argument about Riot not addressing champions with similar problems...

The only think I do agree with you on is how bullshit it is that Riot just made Rengar into a diver/bruiser without giving a fuck about the community's opinion.

SwarovskoJun 16, 20175 votes

"Q: nice meme" I hope that Rioter got fired for that. The level of unprofessionalism is beyond my understanding.

Sir FuzziJun 15, 20173 votes

They have a lot of people who have a lot of demeanors. Of course, there's the column A and column B thing; if you sate column A, B complains. Sate B, A complains. Yanno?

But on the other hand, snarky replies don't help. You can't have one person saying 'we hear it all!' while other people just say 'nah, it isn't changing.' No, they're not required to explain themselves, or required to do anything really. But they can't possibly expect good results from answers that shut down discussion.

Mister SupportJun 16, 20172 votes

Hearing something does NOT mean doing that thing. If the idea is bad then there's no reason to follow through with it.

General Esdeath Jun 16, 20173 votes

I agree, also where did you get that icon?

Chess1Jun 16, 20172 votes

da fuk idk this is the chaos icon im using currently

General Esdeath Jun 16, 20173 votes

I thought so, it says place holder.

Dragon MasterJun 16, 20173 votes

Dragon Master Swain comes to mind. Still salty about that.

Chess1Jun 16, 20172 votes

Didnt they say its shelved and isa possibility?

GayFluffyUnicornJun 16, 20172 votes

Well sure it is possible but swain doesn't get any skin until his VGU which will be around 2045.

themachampJun 16, 20173 votes

{quoted}

ANYTHING they say will be used against them later at any point in time so they have to be EXTREMELY careful when they respond to feedback.

ummmmmm...you could use that argument for almost any profession that has to interact with customers, players,etc. That really isn't a valid excuse to pussy out lol.