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Discussion on balancing slows

Potato Doc··1 votes·428 views

This idea came to me when I was considering challenging smite and how it destroys non-mobile champs compared to mobile ones To start a comparison Its easy to see the difference between riven and nasus in mobility, while nasus gets royally wrecked by a slow since he has no mobility move, if you attempt to slow riven she can use her Q and E and it is almost as if the slow never existed

Now what if dashes in the game were based off movement speed, of course there is a cap to the distance it can go which since i realize its a bit confusing i will illustrate quickly what i mean

Lets say currently Lucien's dash goes 500 units

With the slow rework distance dashed would increase from 0 - 500 units as ms rises with its cap being 350 movement speed (where the distance in the dash stops growing) however if the movement speed were to ever fall below 350ms then it would cut the distance dashed even if the dash removes slows

So with the rework, if lucien is slowed to, lets say, 267 ms, his dash would then only go lets say 325 units (numbers arent important right now they are just examples) and if lucien ever fell to 0ms his dash would be 0 units

As an increase to this as a buff/nerf to chilling smite chilling smite slows for 25%, if the enemy champion uses a dash then the buff is doubled and refreshed

of course this doesn't take into account teleports like ezreals, flash, ect, (it could but this is just my through process right now) but it would leave alone target abilities that require targeting a champion or minion, aka poppy yasuo ect because if you can use those to escape then its a good out play and we don't want to remove that from the game. It would also not effect MS increase abilities anymore then it does now since moves like hecarims E or zileans E arent "dash" moves

3 Comments

Sightless661 votes

This has been suggested a few times before. I think it's a very blunt solution that would introduce more problems than it would address.

Two problems. A basic design tenant Riot has adopted is that when you use an ability, you know exactly what it will do. If I cast Corki's Valkyrie, I know exactly what range it will go, how fast it will go, and what will make it stop, and nothing can change those. With this, the distance I go will be heavily modified by something that will be effectively impossible for me to calculate on a moment-by-moment basis. I can't say at any given point exactly how much I am slowed or how exactly that translates into dash distance. I'll just have to guess whether or not my dash would actually work sufficiently. That's terrible to play with. It would be the single most unfun mechanic in this game, no exceptions. Even getting permakited isn't as much bullshit as this would be.

Second: slows are omnipresent in this game. Keeping someone slowed is very easy, particularly in teamfights where one tank can keep multiple people slowed for very long durations if they choose to. This will just be a reduction to the effectiveness of dashes at almost all times in almost all mid-late game fighting situations. The only classes that would be unaffected are classes that stay out of the fights avoiding damage and then using dashes to get in (primarily assassins). There are many, many, many champions that would just get completely screwed by this change that can't take it. Any champion reliant on in-fight mobility would have their playstyle destroyed completely. Effectively removing in-fight mobility is not a good goal.

it would leave alone target abilities that require targeting a champion or minion, aka poppy yasuo ect because if you can use those to escape then its a good out play

Yasuo's dash goes a specific distance no matter how far away minions are. There is no reason why it wouldn't be reduced under your set rules. Also, this being a "good out play" is very subjective. What makes this a point to draw the line? Why not reduce this range too? I don't understand your criteria.

Potato Doc1 votes

You say you know exactly how far it will go, but how do you know how far it will go? you played enough, the argument isnt entirely valid because of this, its a concept that yes will throw many people off at first but after playing with it for a while any player will get used to the concept.

One player will say to himself how slowed am I? am I severely slowed? if so I should get closer to the wall I want to jump over, but if my ms is still over 350 per say I will know my dash is fine. You say it would be unfun and guess work but any "barely made it across there" is guess work too, Thats why people flash fail over walls they thought they would get over but they didnt, I guarantee you dont know exactly how far your Valkyrie goes you guesstimate as many people would say, you know the general distance, however most people wont take that guess, they get close enough to ensure the jump will succeed. Introduce problems? yes people would have to get used to it,however introduce permanant problems? No. Obviously they wouldnt throw this all in at once, just like the new map they would slowly leak it through, give everyone a good while to get used to the new mechanic if they did introduce it and work it up until it is finally in ranked. You say being permakited isnt as much bs as the reduced dashes from slows idea, however, the one im suggesting you can get used to, permakiting is something that cannot be gotten used to. Your champions cant just suddenly gain an ability to counter it. Also if you look at kalista's passive the jump distance scales off her enhanced movement speed. So they have toyed with the idea, possibly kalista's passive was also a test for this idea. Also as an added point, oh no you missed your jump... well guess youll have to do what every other immobile champion does and either flash or walk around

also slows are not omnipresent, mordekaiser is the first one to disagree with you, and there are several other champions who say otherwise, stop generalizing.

Any champion reliant on in-fight mobility would have their playstyle destroyed completely. Effectively removing in-fight mobility is not a good goal.

Again an assumption and you never know until it is put into practice, i dont feel like i need to explain how many "knowledgeable" people around the world through history have been sure they were right... until they were proven wrong when it was put into practice, so the entire 2nd argument is thrown out the window until it is proven or disproven.

As for your comment about the dash through abilities, the counter argument is the fact that since it requires a target the usefulness to escape is limited compared to that of riven, graves, lucien, vi, and anyone else with a skill shot type dash.

Sightless661 votes

You say you know exactly how far it will go, but how do you know how far it will go?

I said that I don't know how far they will go. That's the problem. The amount I am slowed can change massively over the course of a quarter of a second, which affects my dash.

I guarantee you dont know exactly how far your Valkyrie goes you guesstimate as many people would say, you know the general distance,

No, I know how far it goes. I know exactly when I can use the ability to cross a wall or dodge an ability and when I can't. I still make mistakes of course, but that is due to trying to use an ability slightly early or trying to get a pixel-perfect dash or misclicking. It's not due to not knowing the distance. This is a much bigger deal than you're making it.

if my ms is still over 350 per say I will know my dash is fine.

And if I'm under it, it's a crapshoot (and the slow will almost certainly put me under it). It's impossible to know at any given moment how far my dash will take me. This isn't a problem that can just be ignored. The speed with which slows can change and the degree to which they can affect dashes is a massive problem with your idea.

if you look at kalista's passive the jump distance scales off her enhanced movement speed.

Enhanced Movement is the passive for boots. Her passive scales off of the level of her boots. Her movement speed doesn't affect her dash at all. She can have 1 movement speed and still move the full distance of her dash. Riot actually said in the Kalista AMA that they considered your idea for her passive, and they threw it out. It made her completely unfun to play, because her passive just stopped working most of the time. It made her less fun than just walking would.

well guess youll have to do what every other immobile champion does and either flash or walk around

This is not a solution. Immobile champions are designed around this. Mobile ones are not.

also slows are not omnipresent

Dude, don't take it so literally. Yes, slows are not technically omnipresent, but the majority of champions have them, and there are multiple items that give significant slows for significant durations (Randuin's in particular is present in virtually every game). It's very, very easy to slow someone for the major duration of a teamfight, and the fact that there are a few champions who can't doesn't change that. Every game has slows, in significant numbers, and slow can be itemized for. It is omnipresent in this game.

Again an assumption and you never know until it is put into practice, i dont feel like i need to explain how many "knowledgeable" people around the world through history have been sure they were right... until they were proven wrong when it was put into practice, so the entire 2nd argument is thrown out the window until it is proven or disproven.

No, it isn't thrown out the window. It's unproven, but open to discussion. The argument of "you could be wrong so it's not a valid complaint" isn't going to convince me of anything.

Here's how I see it: a champion is reliant on in-fight mobility. It relies on this to be useful in teamfights. In teamfights, multiple slows can easily be thrown. A champion reliant on in-fight mobility who gets slowed will be unable to use their abilities effectively.

I maintain my position. It's a bad idea. It has no goal for preserving the play patterns of mobile champions. I agree that immobile champions need some love, but just breaking every mobile champion over the knee is not the solution.

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