The best part about the new Poppy W

Potato Doc·Nov 25, 2015·56 votes·6,277 views

Is the fact that you can actually outplay yasuo instead of waiting for him to out play himself.

I also hope it knocks vayne out of stealth. That would be an awesome and interesting counter to her.

74 Comments

OperationDEEZ1Nov 25, 201548 votes

"Is the fact that you can actually outplay yasuo instead of waiting for him to out play himself." Never was a truer sentence ever spoken.

HupsisNov 27, 20152 votes

New Poppy counters Yasuo. It's not really outplaying when you press one button when an enemy approaches.

Yasuo has to outplay himself for anyone to defeat him. That is true.

Overall I'm excited about the new Poppy. She'll counter all sorts of cancers: LeeSin Yasuo Fiora Rengar Riven Kalista

A Superb VillainNov 25, 201520 votes

http://25.media.tumblr.com/0e222838701bf16f39123d22a5536d0e/tumblr_mw65y6yeTf1r2ifdho1_500.gif

Poppy has come to save us all!

ShyvauniNov 29, 20151 votes

Poppy has always saved us all!

Excitidly InsaneNov 25, 201513 votes

It's gonna be a nerf to Lee.

So inb4 Lee Sin gets a buff.

MetalGearTeemuNov 25, 20151 votes

Just kick poppy away with your instant speed targeted kick, the field doesn't stop her from moving away from you.

Excitidly InsaneNov 25, 20152 votes

Well of course there are ways in theory of stopping it. From a ganking perspective it's unlikely you'll get close, she has retained her dash and can now prevent other champions dashing too her if she's reactive enough (Renekton is gonna have a hard time). As basically your only chance of getting to her is your Q (unless of course you ward hop which then leaves you without an escape and with this Poppy that isn't something I'd recommend.) even if you delay pressing the second part chances are she'll just dash away even if she blew her dash shield.

From a laning perspective I guess in a skirmish she'll be in your face making the Q-R-Q easy as if she fights you post 6 she puts herself in range. If she activates the shield before you can wait it out as the Q cast will still be available and if she does it after just wait some more o_o" . Or course, if things don't go her way she has that whack-a-mole ult that'll send you half the distance of a Twisted Fate ult back up your lane.

ShyvauniNov 29, 20151 votes

Actually as the kick has to land after the dash it should stop Lees ult entirely

Ulquiorra995Nov 26, 201511 votes

So, we should enjoy Poppy while she lasts. We all know what happens to champions who dare to stand up to Lee.

kaltenashesNov 26, 20154 votes

Sejuani enjoy while you can Poppy , one day we'll be buds [zombie-nunu-bummed]

GubaguyNov 26, 20153 votes

i look forward to a lee diving me at my tower, poping my W, and forcing him to fly face first into the tower isntead of kill me.

Excitidly InsaneNov 26, 20151 votes

Depending on your position, he'll bounce off out of range, unless you are behind your turret, even at which point he can just ward hop back.

IcyPepperNov 26, 20153 votes

at which point he can just ward hop back.

Not during her W :3

That means some tower aggro!

Excitidly InsaneNov 26, 20151 votes

Yes, but if you used the W to prevent the Q follow up he'll just bounce out of it.

IcyPepperNov 26, 20154 votes

Hm, fair point.

Guess it entirely relies on your decision making. Take the full Q damage, but trap him under tower; or prevent the Q entirely, allowing him to escape easily?

Man, that's actually pretty neat. I love decision making, rather than a cure-all button.

ShyvauniNov 29, 20151 votes

Nope just w the q second cast, e into wall or tower. I fail to see how taking the full q is better especially as after the E your q will do max damage thanks to the stun on wall effect.

IcyPepperNov 30, 20151 votes

Because positioning?

Using E on someone onto a wall or tower only works if they are between you and said wall and tower. If you're the one in the middle, it's not going to happen.

Taking the full Q brings them into melee range, and the MS boost (and the slight cc on them) should give you a shot on positioning yourself so they're between you and said tower/wall. Otherwise, they won't get into melee range if you activate W too early.

ShyvauniNov 29, 20151 votes

Not if you E him inyo tower or nearby wall during the quarter second knockup.

CriomhthannNov 26, 20152 votes

This doesn't mean Lee Sin will get a buff, it means Poppy will get a nerf. The moment they realize it interrupts Lee Sin, they are going to remove the ability from the game.

DessemNov 26, 20155 votes

"Because Poppy's W shield was only situationally useful against Dashes, and not all champions have Dashes, we've changed her W functionality to instead slow people who enter by 50% and dealing damage. This is a buff because now it affects more targets instead of only affecting Dash-based champions! :D"

Meanwhile, high-fives around the office, as Lee Sin and Yasuo are saved.

charcharmunroNov 25, 20159 votes

Shh. Can you hear that? It's the sound of Riven mains crying toxic tears.

Jeddy017Nov 25, 20155 votes

Best part about the rework,a giant "FUCK YOU" to those annoying champs who dash all over the map.

OperationDEEZ1Nov 25, 20156 votes

LeeSin item 3070

MelledoneusNov 26, 20159 votes

Ekko gets ulted

Ults back in "I'm BACK BITCHES!"

OshletNov 26, 20152 votes

What about...

Kalista

spavinedNov 26, 20151 votes

im wondering that too, someone get on it!!!

OrangesilkNov 27, 20154 votes

It's worth it to build AP Poppy just so the Kallista unconsciously tries to hop away and gets slammed for a LOT of damage.

YCitizenSnipsYNov 28, 20151 votes

I think it only stops one use of Kalista's passive.

ShyvauniNov 29, 20151 votes

Yes but then your primed to e kallista into wall for stun.

kaltenashesNov 26, 20152 votes

i didnt understand what that skill do, does it cancel dashes like lucian's e, vayne's q,riven's q (is it considered dash?) ?

Robert SmithNov 26, 20155 votes

Like a Veigar cage it stops dashes and does damage too I believe

LarasoNov 26, 20152 votes

Her W literally fixes almost every issue I have with all of my most hated champs, champs that include Fizz , Fizz , Fizz , and Fizz .

Might take her mid lane just because FUCK YOU FIZZ

My Waifu VanillaNov 26, 20156 votes

It will only stop his Q. It doesn't do anything to his E most likely since it is not a dash but a targeted gap closer most likely.

IronwallJacksonNov 26, 20153 votes

Dude, I'm pretty sure non-blink gap-closers all count as dashes. That said, Fizz can go over Azir's wall, presumably because of the intangibility, so there's a good chance he can E inside of Poppy's E.

BottleCapsterNov 26, 20152 votes

Poppy's W does not stop intangibility, so Fizz's E should be unaffected.

LarasoNov 26, 20152 votes

OK well this only further fuels the flames of my rage

Fuck fizz

DocShockerNov 26, 20151 votes

Sadly, Poppy W won't mess with Yasuo as much as you might hope. Like most abilities, it only procs once per champ. So if you were to say, block a Yas dashing to a minion, he'll take damage and get a very slight CC, but he can just instantly start dashing again. It only blocks and damages once per W on each champ.

Still, it is better than nothing. It could catch some aggressive players off-guard.

Potato DocNov 27, 20152 votes

If this is true, riot needs to change this immediately. If yasuo can have an almost 0 CD dash, poppy's W should also be able to cancel every single dash made in it during its duration, the range is small, and the CC is almost negligible, plus the damage isn't that high.

JustMyBassCannonNov 27, 20151 votes

That wouldn't be consistent with most effects in the game, though. There are very few effects that can repeatedly affect the same target, and the ones that can do that are balanced for it.

230 damage plus a knockup is enough one time, regardless of how much you might hate Yasuo.

Potato DocNov 27, 20151 votes

Veigar's stun can apply multiple times Azir ult can apply multiple times, just the damage is applied only once

Im using those as examples because they are closest to what poppy's ability is. It is totally in line and consistent with what riot has done

JustMyBassCannonNov 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Veigar's stun can apply multiple times

No, it cannot. I've tried this countless times, and it hasn't double-stunned since before Season 1 (and that was a bug).

Azir ult can apply multiple times, just the damage is applied only once

That's not his ultimate applying multiple times, that's his wall stopping multiple dashes. And the main difference is that it doesn't deal damage and CC every time you hit the wall with a dash. It just stops your dash.

Im using those as examples because they are closest to what poppy's ability is. It is totally in line and consistent with what riot has done

Might want to do your homework there.

Potato DocNov 28, 20151 votes

Already did my homework Yes veigar stun can apply multiple times, both if you stand in the radius long enough, or move out and then move back in. There is a timer however and if you pass through the wall between a set amount of time the stun wont work, Its like yasuo's dash or udyrs stun, it just doesnt show. Riot doesnt feel like it needs to be fixed because it only works if you are initially stunned and then hit the wall again right before it goes away. It happened to my brother on hecarim 2 days ago.

Also pointing out another abilties that can apply multiple times, Karthus wall can apply multiple times. Nautilus's E can apply multiple times. Anivia's Q can apply twice

couple of champions with super short but multiple application abilities: Rumble Anivia Akali Kennen (He can stun twice super quickly but the 2nd duration is shortened) Lee sin (stun at the beginning and end of ult, plus knock back in the middle)

While most of these arent quite as applicable as the veigar stun, or even more so the Azir wall, since they arent quite the same effect, its easy enough to see riot has a ton of "reapply" mechanics to the game. Its totally not contrary to what they do. Plus there are harder and more oppressive counters out there then yasuo or riven having to wait till poppy's W is down.

As for Azir of course it stops doing damage after the first time, never implied poppys damage would apply more then once.

Maybe you should do your homework instead/ stop implying things ;)

JustMyBassCannonNov 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Already did my homework Yes veigar stun can apply multiple times, both if you stand in the radius long enough, or move out and then move back in. There is a timer however and if you pass through the wall between a set amount of time the stun wont work, Its like yasuo's dash or udyrs stun, it just doesnt show. Riot doesnt feel like it needs to be fixed because it only works if you are initially stunned and then hit the wall again right before it goes away. It happened to my brother on hecarim 2 days ago.

Then it's a bug, because I have intentionally tried it myself many times in the past, and I've also had many situations where, after being hit by the stun, I crossed the entire Event Horizon and didn't get stunned by either side a second time. They specifically meant for it to only affect once per target per cast.

Also pointing out another abilties that can apply multiple times, Karthus wall can apply multiple times.

It's not supposed to, and I haven't had it reapply since they made that change

Nautilus's E can apply multiple times.

Yes, and it's supposed to hit multiple times.

Anivia's Q can apply twice

Yes, and it's supposed to be able to do that.

couple of champions with super short but multiple application abilities: Rumble Anivia Akali Kennen (He can stun twice super quickly but the 2nd duration is shortened) Lee sin (stun at the beginning and end of ult, plus knock back in the middle)

All of them are supposed to do that though. Their kits are specifically balanced around being able to re-apply Electro Harpoon, Flash Frost (which you mentioned twice), Marks of the Storm...I haven't ever seen Akali's mark stack on the same target, but I won't say it can't as I haven't tested it. And Lee Sin? It roots the target for a quarter-second before the knockback, which acts like a stun for the duration as all knockbacks do.

While most of these arent quite as applicable as the veigar stun, or even more so the Azir wall, since they arent quite the same effect, its easy enough to see riot has a ton of "reapply" mechanics to the game. Its totally not contrary to what they do. Plus there are harder and more oppressive counters out there then yasuo or riven having to wait till poppy's W is down.

You're comparing apples to oranges and then trying to say it's not inconsistent to make an orange pie in the same way you'd make an apple pie.

I did not say that being able to stack an effect is inconsistent with the system. I said that specifically doing that with Poppy's W would be inconsistent compared to other area control spells.

You don't get knocked up by Wukong's ultimate twice. You don't get re-taunted by Galio's ultimate if you remove the taunt. You don't get re-stunned by Viktor's gravity field. You only get knocked up once by Zac's ultimate. You aren't supposed to be re-stunned by Veigar or re-slowed by Karthus.

And that's not saying there aren't some area control spells that will re-apply, but those champions and abilities are balanced around being able to re-proc it.

As for Azir of course it stops doing damage after the first time, never implied poppys damage would apply more then once.

Except the damage of Azir's wall is attached to the knockback, not the dash block. With Poppy, the dash block and damage are attached to the same effect. It's the same problem Sona had when her ultimate dealt damage over time; if you reduced the duration with Tenacity or straight-up Cleansed it, damage was lost.

Maybe you should do your homework instead/ stop implying things ;)

Reusing that taunt might work if you actually were in a more informed position.

Potato DocNov 29, 20151 votes

You don't get knocked up by Wukong's ultimate twice. You don't get re-taunted by Galio's ultimate if you remove the taunt. You don't get re-stunned by Viktor's gravity field. You only get knocked up once by Zac's ultimate. You aren't supposed to be re-stunned by Veigar or re-slowed by Karthus.

Lots of these are pretty lack luster counter examples since

If wukongs ult knocked you up twice or more then only those with flashes or those who never got hit would be able to escape it

Actually Galio's ult would constantly reapply the taunt, however this caused a problem because with enough tenacity you could escape the circle even if you were taunted. The change to one single taunt that cant be mitigated by tenacity was to help this inconsistency, but allow people to still QSS

Viktors G-field reapplies a slow three times as a counter and on the 3rd you get stunned, the amount of time between the end of the stun and the end of the gravitation field isnt long enough for that to work

Zac's ultimate yet again would cause only those who flash/dont get hit to avoid it, its reasonable to keep it to only one knock back

The last ones riot doesnt want to happen but it does, so I guess that is the only valid argument you placed so far

The major difference is YOU CHOOSE to dash instead of the enemy placing the CC on you. That is why it is reasonable for poppy to stop any and all dashes. Because the aura only lasts so long, it however is up to her opponent on whether the CC is applied to her opponent. Plus flashes can put her opponent out of the area so they can dash. She can however be clever and cast it during their dash to cancel it which is still her opponents fault for trying to dash on to her.

JustMyBassCannonNov 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Lots of these are pretty lack luster counter examples since

If wukongs ult knocked you up twice or more then only those with flashes or those who never got hit would be able to escape it

It doesn't knock you up twice if you get tapped once, blink out and he catches up again. There, did I enunciate it clearly enough?

Actually Galio's ult would constantly reapply the taunt, however this caused a problem because with enough tenacity you could escape the circle even if you were taunted. The change to one single taunt that cant be mitigated by tenacity was to help this inconsistency, but allow people to still QSS

Galio's ultimate actually applies a taunt if you walk into the radius after the initial taunt. And they got rid of Tenacity affecting the taunt, but you can still remove it with QSS or similar effects, and it can't re-taunt you (though it will still hurt, so it's a bad idea to just walk back in).

Viktors G-field reapplies a slow three times as a counter and on the 3rd you get stunned, the amount of time between the end of the stun and the end of the gravitation field isnt long enough for that to work

Those stacks happen every half-second, and the field lasts 3 seconds. If you cleanse it or have enough CC reduction, though, you won't get re-stacked by it. They specifically fixed that after some Gangplank players found out that he could get double-stunned if he tried to W out of it.

Zac's ultimate yet again would cause only those who flash/dont get hit to avoid it, its reasonable to keep it to only one knock back

The last ones riot doesnt want to happen but it does, so I guess that is the only valid argument you placed so far

That was my entire argument. If they make it so it can apply multiple times, it's balanced around that. This is what I've said from the start.

The major difference is YOU CHOOSE to dash instead of the enemy placing the CC on you. That is why it is reasonable for poppy to stop any and all dashes. Because the aura only lasts so long, it however is up to her opponent on whether the CC is applied to her opponent. Plus flashes can put her opponent out of the area so they can dash. She can however be clever and cast it during their dash to cancel it which is still her opponents fault for trying to dash on to her.

Kind of like how it's your choice if you walk into Veigar's E, or stay in Viktor's W, or a number of those others are kind of "your choice" whether or not they activate. It's not really much of a choice, more a gauge of your reactions to a specific situation.

Potato DocNov 29, 20151 votes

You dont choose to be CC'ed by their abilities. It just does it. By having patience you can avoid any CC by poppy from her W Like veigar as you stated you choose to walk into it (not always but most of the time). You choose to be stunned and be on the edge, or stay in the inner circle. A fair trade off, but the stun duration on veigar's stun is much longer. Viktors G-Field comes up so quickly unless you have a dash or blink you dont choose to be inside it. Your argument is assuming everyone is Faker, and even Faker gets stunned or locked up by those abilities

Your argument for Galio it used to be that you couldnt use QSS on it because you would just get re-taunted however I already went over why they changed that. I do remember the double stun with viktor, never really had an issue with it. I could see why Riot would change that but at that point it is the persons choice to stay in the area. Still in this case a person could attempt to flash or dash out to avoid a second stun if it was still in game, which would cause them to avoid the second stun. Only problem would be the duration of the stun, when compared to poppy's W the CC is around .25 enough to stop a dash, but not game breaking by any means

Going to what you said about being balanced around an ability hitting multiple times, its funny how you think .25 second stuns that requires YOU to make the decision of using your ability or not, and if you do use the ability having it stopped, isnt balanced if it applies more then once.

What makes this move so great is slows are so tough against champions like udyr and singed who dont have a single dash and rely on small MS buffs to get around. Does the enemy team have an ashe? Well its not my choice if shes able to perma slow me if she caught me out and with the amount of MS ADC get these days its so hard to turn on an Ashe as an Udyr without flash. Its just one example (not including how easy it is for mages to buy ryalis). When compared to slows against non-dash melee champs without a means of cleansing the slow in their kit (garen and olaf are examples of this) this argument you put up is so silly. You have poppy whos aura, which is only 400 distance around her and only lasts for what im seeing as 2.5 maybe 3 seconds, and requires you to use a dash, which if you wait the 2.5 or 3 seconds, or to flash out, and it only affects dashes not flashes blinks or untargettables or unstoppables, it seems more then fair, plus most champions don't even have more then 1 dash in a time period, the champion pool it targets is even more limited at this point, but riven and yasuo can negate slows through dashes. Seems more then fair to have those dashes entirely cancelled out for what is a short time period,

Going back to the original argument of it not being consistent with what riot has done, this is absolute bogus if you actually know the history of this game. Yasuo's ult? Totally inconsistent with how all others work, they still did it. Double passive on the passive? Absolutely inconsistent with how all previous passives worked before. Inconsistent, why does QSS cleanse suppress but cleanse doesnt? Probably the only thing riot has been consistent about is their rework of Ryze every season, but that is because this game changes, its evolving, its what games do. At the very least Riot should try it.

JustMyBassCannonNov 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You dont choose to be CC'ed by their abilities. It just does it. By having patience you can avoid any CC by poppy from her W Like veigar as you stated you choose to walk into it (not always but most of the time). You choose to be stunned and be on the edge, or stay in the inner circle. A fair trade off, but the stun duration on veigar's stun is much longer. Viktors G-Field comes up so quickly unless you have a dash or blink you dont choose to be inside it. Your argument is assuming everyone is Faker, and even Faker gets stunned or locked up by those abilities

Is it so wrong to assume people can react within half a second? I mean, I have 260ms reflexes and that's considered slower than the average gamer. I've grown up on video games and my natural reflexes are slower than average.

Your argument for Galio it used to be that you couldn't use QSS on it because you would just get re-taunted however I already went over why they changed that.

Galio's taunt affects any champion that walks into the radius of the taunt even after it starts channeling. However, you can't walk in, QSS it, walk out, walk back in and get taunted again. That was the example.

I do remember the double stun with viktor, never really had an issue with it. I could see why Riot would change that but at that point it is the persons choice to stay in the area. Still in this case a person could attempt to flash or dash out to avoid a second stun if it was still in game, which would cause them to avoid the second stun. Only problem would be the duration of the stun, when compared to poppy's W the CC is around .25 enough to stop a dash, but not game breaking by any means

Going to what you said about being balanced around an ability hitting multiple times, its funny how you think .25 second stuns that requires YOU to make the decision of using your ability or not, and if you do use the ability having it stopped, isnt balanced if it applies more then once.

What makes this move so great is slows are so tough against champions like udyr and singed who dont have a single dash and rely on small MS buffs to get around. Does the enemy team have an ashe? Well its not my choice if shes able to perma slow me if she caught me out and with the amount of MS ADC get these days its so hard to turn on an Ashe as an Udyr without flash. Its just one example (not including how easy it is for mages to buy ryalis). When compared to slows against non-dash melee champs without a means of cleansing the slow in their kit (garen and olaf are examples of this) this argument you put up is so silly. You have poppy whos aura, which is only 400 distance around her and only lasts for what im seeing as 2.5 maybe 3 seconds, and requires you to use a dash, which if you wait the 2.5 or 3 seconds, or to flash out, and it only affects dashes not flashes blinks or untargettables or unstoppables, it seems more then fair, plus most champions don't even have more then 1 dash in a time period, the champion pool it targets is even more limited at this point, but riven and yasuo can negate slows through dashes. Seems more then fair to have those dashes entirely cancelled out for what is a short time period,

Do you always compare apples to giraffes?

Udyr or Singed vs. Ashe is evened out by many things--CC reduction, slow reduction, both champions have higher base MS and innate MS steroids--that allow them to overcome this problem in solo situations, not to mention that team fights generally make it easier for them.

Riven or Yasuo getting multi-pinged by Poppy's W is not something they can counter. They have 3 options. (1) Never go anywhere near Poppy if they can avoid her (good luck if you're top lane). (2) Wait out the duration of her W (only works in 1v1 situations). (3) Flash (5 minute cooldown).

Going back to the original argument of it not being consistent with what riot has done, this is absolute bogus if you actually know the history of this game. Yasuo's ult? Totally inconsistent with how all others work, they still did it. Double passive on the passive? Absolutely inconsistent with how all previous passives worked before.

Riot has made abilities that require a target to be under specific effects before you can use them (ex. Twitch's E), so it's not actually their first time doing that. It's not even the first conditional ultimate, as Katarina's requires you to be in range before you can cast it (unlike similar AoE channels that let you use it at any time). Double passive on the passive slot? Sure, it's the first explicit double-passive, but it's not the first passive to have multiple effects, nor the first champion to have multiple passives.

Inconsistent, why does QSS cleanse suppress but cleanse doesnt?

Because they specifically made it so Cleanse can't remove Suppression. Otherwise, if an enemy ever picked a suppression, you could auto-counter them without any real cost.

Probably the only thing riot has been consistent about is their rework of Ryze every season, but that is because this game changes, its evolving, its what games do. At the very least Riot should try it.

There's a significant difference between inconsistency and differing implementation. All of the things you called "inconsistent" are actually consistent with their past design principles applied in a different way.

Potato DocDec 1, 20151 votes

Is it so wrong to assume people can react within half a second? I mean, I have 260ms reflexes and that's considered slower than the average gamer. I've grown up on video games and my natural reflexes are slower than average.

Actually it is, go watch challenger level play and you still see people with slow reaction speeds and incorrect reactions. Took me about 30 seconds to find a video of a super high tier player who has slow reaction time through google. Even nami's ult which looks painfully slow when you aren't playing causes people grief in trying to avoid it. If we expected people to correctly react within a half second at every single point in the game, skill shot speeds would be in the 5000's to allow people to actually hit them. The only people with always half second reaction times are scripters... and faker (i joke on this one)

If you still think it is fine to assume everyone can always do .5 second decisions and make them right im done with this argument.

Do you always compare apples to giraffes? Do you always make humongous and erroneous comparisons to try and lower peoples validity? The argument isnt apples to giraffes its more akin to zebras and horses, similar but not entirely.

Udyr or Singed vs. Ashe is evened out by many things--CC reduction, slow reduction, both champions have higher base MS and innate MS steroids--that allow them to overcome this problem in solo situations, not to mention that team fights generally make it easier for them.

The jokes you make are funny XD, team fights for singed and udyrs, oh wait... You clearly dont understand how those champions are supposed to be played. Ever see Pro play? Very few udyr or singed and for a very good reason. They are better split pushers not team fighters. They specialize in putting pressure around the map, meanwhile in Pro play you see almost every game is based around team fights. An example of this was the master singed player himself SilSol. Would have games where he would go 0/12 yet his team would dominate. Why is that? Because he was putting pressure on the map and his team acted accordingly, He almost never played with his team, expecting his team to make the appropriate plays. There are many most examples but I think this one suffices

As for the fact that the "many" things you said like CC reduction allow them to over come this problem in solo situations then obviously your elo is showing. For an udyr to escape an Ashe with them being on equal grounds in kills, without being poked into oblivion, the udyr has to have mad thinking skill. And thats just escaping, not including trying to get a kill. Anyone who plays udyr a lot knows the rage when they face an Ashe its just that bad. In higher elo its even worse.

Riven or Yasuo getting multi-pinged by Poppy's W is not something they can counter. They have 3 options. (1) Never go anywhere near Poppy if they can avoid her (good luck if you're top lane). (2) Wait out the duration of her W (only works in 1v1 situations). (3) Flash (5 minute cooldown).

Do you always assume when the choice is up to you on if you waste your dash or play it smart that its a counter?. You also assume this game is entirely 1v1's if it was then your argument would be more valid but...

Here ill change your list for you 1.) Never go near poppy until they baited the W out 2.) Wait out the duration of her W. They do have other abilities that they can use, and both have massive AD steroids that they can use for auto attacks, much like when their abilities are on CD they can and will be able to do something if they think calmly about it. 3.)Flash(5 min cd unless you include riven with boots of lucidity/mastery to lower SS CD which both riven and yas can get) 4.) you realize yasuo only has 1 ability that is countered, unsure if poppy's ult can be stopped by windwall, but you realize your ult and Q still work. Plus on the 3rd Q it knocks her up allowing you to escape or deal more damage. 5.) Realize this is a team game and both Yasuo and RIven excel at team fights given they follow up their team, they shouldnt be aiming for 1v1's if they are just that afraid of poppy. Just like how a Fiora is just obliterated by a Renekton this isnt out of the ordinary with having champions just oozing full of counters to other champions.

Riot has made abilities that require a target to be under specific effects before you can use them (ex. Twitch's E), so it's not actually their first time doing that. It's not even the first conditional ultimate, as Katarina's requires you to be in range before you can cast it (unlike similar AoE channels that let you use it at any time)

You used to be able to use Twitch's E and Kat's ult whenever you wanted, the only reason they limited it, (same reason azir can only get 1 ability at lv 1, and zilean cant take his time warp at lv 1) is to prevent people from accidentally using it when it would just hit nothing/do nothing. When comparing it to nunu which takes time to build damage and can be used for an ambush, or maokai who can use it without others nearby to avoid damage from a skill shot or for allies too, it makes sense because the only thing those 2 abilities do (twitch and kat) are damage and twitches is instant, and kat's is consistent damage. Also neither of those "conditions" are "the opponent is CC'ed" and neither is a very specific form of CC, and neither isnt possible to be up at any time like how yasuo requires 2 of his Q before hand to knock up or have another ally nearby that has a form of knock up. There are more examples I could give but yet again I feel like this is enough.

Double passive on the passive slot? Sure, it's the first explicit double-passive, but it's not the first passive to have multiple effects, nor the first champion to have multiple passives.

Never said other champions didnt have multiple passives from other abilities, but starting the game at lv 1 with a possible 3 passives is pretty big in terms of power. Not only that the passives included for Yasuo are huge as is by themselves. When compared to other passives that are much more lack luster early game Its surprising they allow it.

Because they specifically made it so Cleanse can't remove Suppression. Otherwise, if an enemy ever picked a suppression, you could auto-counter them without any real cost.

So im going to relate this to CoD MW2 heartbeat monitor and the perk ninja. I would take HBM on that game only to force my opponents to use ninja. Did I need it? Not at all, but it caused a conundrum for my enemies, do they take ninja and not be seen? Or take a more useful perk and not be seen. In this game it would be the same thing. Do you pick a suppression so the enemy has to take cleanse and lose out on either a.) flash, or b.) ignite/exhaust/whatever else they want. Do they take cleanse in the game? Or just wait out till QSS is able to be bought? In all honesty its just easier to pick up item 3139 , which any bruiser or adc can build early without too much repercussion. You might think otherwise but in the end its a bit silly cleanse doesn't do that. Before grievous wounds was re-released many complained about how OP it was and that it was at no real cost to counter people like mundo and swain, but we still see people choosing LDR instead, why? Because it just isn't as useful when comparing 4 other champions to 1, there is a trade off, and you act like there wouldn't be. There totally is.

There's a significant difference between inconsistency and differing implementation. All of the things you called "inconsistent" are actually consistent with their past design principles applied in a different way.

It is easy to say now looking back that it is applied differently, but at the time they came out they were radical changes. I don't know another champion that stuns at the beginning and at the end of a knock back like lee sin, or like how he has two abilities for each normal ability, that requires you to use the first ability to allow you to use the 2nd ability. Nidalee was a huge inconsistency when league first came out with being able to change form from a ranged to a melee with different ability timers and skills. There are tons of other champions who are "inconsistent" with the normal build patterns. Talking abilities, Bard, enough said. If I have to explain how just about every part of his kit is so radically different from others and how they introduced new patters of use then I deem this argument over. However, Instead of calling it inconsistent though we call it innovative because this game evolves, it changes, it has to. We can and should implement new ideas such as multiple application of CC when its under the decision making of the enemy not the user. Following in line with your previous quote this is just being "consistent with their past design principles", being innovative.

ShyvauniNov 29, 20151 votes

Veigars stun can proc twice and is not a bug there is a time delay between the 1st and second stun

JustMyBassCannonNov 29, 20151 votes

Event Horizon can only stun a unit once per cast. A unit will not be stunned twice if they walk through the perimeter again after recovering from an initial stun.

Spell shields will block the stun and provide immunity to stuns from the same instance of Event Horizon.

It is not supposed to stun twice per instance, and so far, your only evidence is saying "Yeah it does!" Get a video and prove it, and then if you do, submit it to the bug forums.