The Annie Buff

okamiyasha95·Aug 31, 2018·6 votes·6,937 views

The auto attack range is cool and all, but I think they should have at least buffed her Q range and buffed her E damage reduction. She’s weak against a lot of mid laners due to being out ranged and out-damaged in a lot of trades. Auto attack range is not helpful for her against these other laners that are able to get more range out and do more damage. Other laners have her new AA range with their abilities so she will always lose trades against those laners. Meaning she would have to get in their range to get poked with their abilities for little reward. Like Syndra Q'ing Annie and Annie only being able to auto attack her. It's pretty pointless. Her E just seems like it doesn't work. Like it's 100 degrees outside and the wind is 80 degrees. You can feel it, but it really doesn't help. I don't know if it's just me but I usually only use my E to get my passive proc off and hope I can mitigate a good amount of damage in a trade to survive an all in from assassins and burst mages.

34 Comments

SomeOneButNoOneAug 31, 20182 votes

If annie's Q would be 625 range, she would become broken tier. The only way for that to happen is for her Q to be remade into a skill shot.

okamiyasha95Sep 1, 20181 votes

But in this day and age, everything is broken and anything not broken is underbalanced. LuL. Even if she would be broken tier, she would still be weaker than a lot of champs i.e. Brand who's W range is 900, Ahri who's Q has a range of 880, Lux who's E range is 1000. The list could go on. Buffing Annie's Q range would only allow her lane more decently against a lot of other mid laners.

InfernapeSep 1, 20183 votes

None of those spells are point and click. They are all skillshots. They can be missed/dodged.

okamiyasha95Sep 1, 20181 votes

Doesn't matter. They still outrange Annie. In most cases, most mid laners have more than one ability that out-ranges Annie's Q. At best, Annie can have the advantage in the lane with her auto and Q range once the enemy abilities are on cooldown for enemies that have one ability that out-ranges her Q and AA range like. Normally, she gets hit first and gets out-traded by a lot of the other mages and mid laners. Therefore, she's left to just Q farm and hope she does enough damage to get a kill after a flash all in.

ParoeAug 31, 20181 votes

old AA range - she was nerfed randomly because "Why should a mage out-range most marksmen?".

This change will dramatically increase her effectiveness in the support role, and make her laning a lot safer too.

okamiyasha95Aug 31, 20181 votes

It actually doesn't make her safer in the laning. Unless she's going up against a champ with short ability ranges. I just played her. The buff to her attack range only allows her to proc her runes off and get like 2 hits in against champions that she got the buff for in the first place, but those champs can still hit her with their abilities. The buff only allows her to freely poke champs with relatively short range i.e. Yasuo, Katarina, Brand, etc. But a lot of the other champs still make it seem like she didn't get a buff i.e. Lux, Talon, Syndra, Ekko, etc.

As far as her support role, I can see that. Now that she has longer AA range, depending on the matchup, she can get free hits in safer, but who would pick Annie over other supports when those other supports can do the same thing better i.e. Sona, Lux, Lulu, Soraka, Zyra, Brand, etc.?

Before you complain about Annie out ranging Marksmen, what about Xerath, Velkoz, Syndra, Lux, Taliyah, Ahri, Malzahar, kennen, Ziggs, Heimer, Orianna, Karthus, and Cass? Mages are supposed to be on par with Marksmen in the range department and damage department. One is AD and the other is AP. It's called balance. All I want a buff on her Q range and a revert of her AA range. That way, she can be more viable in the lanes she's intended to be in. Right now, she's on the shorter end of the stick because almost every meta mid laner, throughout multiple seasons, can get free abilities on her all game. Unless opponents completely underestimate her and misposition, Annie has to flash in order to get in range to use her abilities. It has become a meme. That is not healthy for any mage with ranged abilities.

ParoeAug 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It actually doesn't make her safer in the laning. Unless she's going up against a champ with short ability ranges. I just played her. The buff to her attack range only allows her to proc her runes off and get like 2 hits in against champions that she got the buff for in the first place, but those champs can still hit her with their abilities. The buff only allows her to freely poke champs with relatively short range i.e. Yasuo, Katarina, Brand, etc. But a lot of the other champs still make it seem like she didn't get a buff i.e. Lux, Talon, Syndra, Ekko, etc.

As far as her support role, I can see that. Now that she has longer AA range, depending on the matchup, she can get free hits in safer, but who would pick Annie over other supports when those other supports can do the same thing better i.e. Sona, Lux, Lulu, Soraka, Zyra, Brand, etc.?

Before you complain about Annie out ranging Marksmen, what about Xerath, Velkoz, Syndra, Lux, Taliyah, Ahri, Malzahar, kennen, Ziggs, Heimer, Orianna, Karthus, and Cass? Mages are supposed to be on par with Marksmen in the range department and damage department. One is AD and the other is AP. It's called balance. All I want a buff on her Q range and a revert of her AA range. That way, she can be more viable in the lanes she's intended to be in. Right now, she's on the shorter end of the stick because almost every meta mid laner, throughout multiple seasons, can get free abilities on her all game. Unless opponents completely underestimate her and misposition, Annie has to flash in order to get in range to use her abilities. It has become a meme. That is not healthy for any mage with ranged abilities.

Outranging a marksman means basic attack range. None of the mages you mentioned have more than 550AA range as far as i recall, and im pretty sure most of them have 500-525 except kennen, who is a marksman.

okamiyasha95Aug 31, 20181 votes

Kennen is officially a mage, but people play as a marksmen because he's played in the top lane most of the time against bruisers and tanks and people build hybrid builds on him. I'm in my client and I'm looking at the Mage champion roster. Those mages don't out-range marksmen with AAs. That's my point. Adding range to her AA is not the right direction in moving her into a more viable spot. I said revert the AA range back to how it was before the buff and just increase her Q range is all I'm asking. I can't even get decent trades out with and I'm forced to farm til my team rotates mid because I can't all in anyone with a brain without using flash ignite. Fuq pokes. I need decent trades or at least the ability to farm without getting poked to death.

Lunar LunacyAug 31, 20181 votes

The Q range should match the range of her auto in my opinion but hey, whatever, when she engages she usually just flashes in anyway

okamiyasha95Aug 31, 20181 votes

I'm just tired of trying to Q farm and getting the living shid poked out of me because I gotta be all in the range of a lot of other champion's abilities. I guess Riot was taking the fact that if she can all in without flashing, then she could possibly be broken and uninteractive with her passive stacks at 3 or 4. But, then again, I with only her Q and AA range increases, she would still have to step all the way up to get the rest of her abilities out. By then, her stun would wear off and she'd be in free poke range.

Daddy AntsAug 31, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I'm just tired of trying to Q farm and getting the living shid poked out of me because I gotta be all in the range of a lot of other champion's abilities. I guess Riot was taking the fact that if she can all in without flashing, then she could possibly be broken and uninteractive with her passive stacks at 3 or 4. But, then again, I with only her Q and AA range increases, she would still have to step all the way up to get the rest of her abilities out. By then, her stun would wear off and she'd be in free poke range.

Run the sustain build.

Inspiration secondary with Biscuits and Time Warp Tonic.

item 2033 starting item.

hhaavviikkAug 31, 20181 votes

or how about we rework her, instant aoe CC high damage nuke with no counterplay is not fine

ParoeAug 31, 20183 votes

{quoted}

or how about we rework her, instant aoe CC high damage nuke with no counterplay is not fine

Sure. If you get her good mobility.

Or do you forget that champions without mobility should have more power than champions with mobility?

hhaavviikkAug 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Sure. If you get her good mobility.

Or do you forget that champions without mobility should have more power than champions with mobility?

oh so if a champion has no mobility that's ground enough to give them something that lacks any form of counterplay? that's news to me

ParoeAug 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

oh so if a champion has no mobility that's ground enough to give them something that lacks any form of counterplay? that's news to me

Really, stop crying. "No counterplay"? Shes got a visible stun indicator; if she flash ults you... well thats a flash ult. Annie is also a champion who can easily be beaten with some MR. Youre against her and doing poorly? Get a banshees veil and avoid taking her harass.

hhaavviikkAug 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Really, stop crying. "No counterplay"? Shes got a visible stun indicator; if she flash ults you... well thats a flash ult. Annie is also a champion who can easily be beaten with some MR. Youre against her and doing poorly? Get a banshees veil and avoid taking her harass.

there being a visible stun indicator doesn't change the fact it has no counterplay, the only way to avoid annie her flash ult is to look into the future.

it doesn't matter how strong or weak annie is, her AOE instant CC lacks counterplay, that is a simple fact

okamiyasha95Sep 1, 20182 votes

Being able to see her stun means that you can avoid trading with her. If she holds it too long, she either creates too much lane pressure or risks losing cs and wave control. In most cases, she stops holding it and Q's a minion or cannon creep to get the farm/exp or to control the wave which allows the enemy laner to continue to apply their pressure. She doesn't have constant CC and if she does, then she will run out of mana really quickly. MR is her counter. Even on AD champs, if you build Hexdrinker, she automatically becomes sufficiently weaker. item 3102 item 3001 item 3139 item 3211 item 3156 item 3111 are just some of the items that take all her burst damage away.

LynXerfAug 31, 20181 votes

Annie can be really oppressive when she is in a good state so I'd much rather see any buffs on the conservative side. Once she is ahead you cannot go anywhere near her because she has the highest burst of any champion in this entire game, IIRC. If she loads up her passive she can stun on a q or ult and then make 1 step to get in range during the stun and unload her full kit immediately - boom.

Little buffs like this can help more than you'd expect. Being able to get 1 or 2 more autos in at a trade is pretty huge - especially at higher ELO. This will also help her in the support role to a good degree.

okamiyasha95Sep 1, 20181 votes

I don't think you all understand how many mid laners out range Annie even with her auto attack range. Try looking up some of the other mid laners and compare their ranges abilities and all to Annie's. I can understand the auto pokes in higher elo (After a trade with abilities, da da da), but in order to get in range to auto attack OR use her Q, she has to get in range of her enemy's abilities. Even then, she still doesn't reach them.

LynXerfSep 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you all understand how many mid laners out range Annie even with her auto attack range. Try looking up some of the other mid laners and compare their ranges abilities and all to Annie's. I can understand the auto pokes in higher elo (After a trade with abilities, da da da), but in order to get in range to auto attack OR use her Q, she has to get in range of her enemy's abilities. Even then, she still doesn't reach them.

I understand it just fine, thank you. And not once did I even suggest she matches the range of other mid laners. However, inevitably while CSing there will be some trades where range overlaps and Annie is strong in this area - as long as she hasn't been chunked too much beforehand.

My point is - when in range, Annie is absolutely devastating. This gives a slight boost to some trading around CS, but not much more. And I don't want to see much more because she's a dangerous champion to buff. When strong, give her a protobelt and she has access to oneshots without needing any skillshots.

okamiyasha95Sep 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I understand it just fine, thank you. And not once did I even suggest she matches the range of other mid laners. However, inevitably while CSing there will be some trades where range overlaps and Annie is strong in this area - as long as she hasn't been chunked too much beforehand.

My point is - when in range, Annie is absolutely devastating. This gives a slight boost to some trading around CS, but not much more. And I don't want to see much more because she's a dangerous champion to buff. When strong, give her a protobelt and she has access to oneshots without needing any skillshots.

You did not. But your responses suggested that you think her range is fine and her AA range buff is okay to. My assumption might be wrong, but I made my statement to point out the fact that most mid laners won't even need to get into AA range against her to poke effectively or farm effeciently. The matter of the fact is, unless the enemy just underestimates Annie completely or has bad mechanics and constantly gets poked down by Annie's Q, she has to rely on her ult and most times flash to one shot anybody and she has to have items. After she uses her ult and her flash, Annie is almost useless. in lane and out of lane. The exception is a good roam. Even with protobelt, it's easy to miss ult. i don't know the exact numbers on the dash rnage, so I won't agree nor disagree with you. If you're scared of Annie gaining a little more range, I don't know what to tell you. Brand, Lux, Veigar, Ahri, Anivia, LeBlanc, and Ekko all do the same things except they do it better. All I'm asking is to even the playing field. Increase her Q range and decrease her Auto range that way she can trade normally and nobody would have to worry about her AA pokes in between.

LynXerfSep 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You did not.

Your assumption/perception. Typical league player attitude well done.

okamiyasha95Sep 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Your assumption/perception. Typical league player attitude well done.

Ok. We established that people make assumptions. That wasn't the focal point of my response. Are you going to stay on topic or are you going to try and pry at anything you dislike? I only used me making an assumption to clarify where I was coming from in the argument. Not to make an additional argument. Explain to me how increasing Annie's Q range will make her more of a problem than Brand, Lux, Vel'koz, Leblanc, Syndra, Taliyah and other mid lane mages without using skillshots as a reason. If her not having any skillshots is your reasoning, then you are saying, champions with skillshots should be stronger than champions with no skillshots. That is what Ghostcrawler said. Look where the game is now and look where he is now. If skillshots or statistics are going to be your argument, then you are not discussing on how to balance out Annie.

LynXerfSep 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ok. We established that people make assumptions. That wasn't the focal point of my response. Are you going to stay on topic or are you going to try and pry at anything you dislike? I only used me making an assumption to clarify where I was coming from in the argument. Not to make an additional argument. Explain to me how increasing Annie's Q range will make her more of a problem than Brand, Lux, Vel'koz, Leblanc, Syndra, Taliyah and other mid lane mages without using skillshots as a reason. If her not having any skillshots is your reasoning, then you are saying, champions with skillshots should be stronger than champions with no skillshots. That is what Ghostcrawler said. Look where the game is now and look where he is now. If skillshots or statistics are going to be your argument, then you are not discussing on how to balance out Annie.

You clearly didn't get the vibe from my previous post. I'm not contributing further purely because of your attitude. Be gone with you if you think you can talk to people like crap, make silly assumptions and then talk about a matter.

ankoanko19Aug 31, 20181 votes

Annie has already spiked back to a 51% wr so I feel like the range buff was gucci https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Annie/Middle/

okamiyasha95Sep 1, 20181 votes

Well the win rate is more of 52 percent in the mid lane with a whopping pick rate of 2.55. Meaning, the only people who play Annie, are people who main her or play a lot of her. Generally speaking, they know how to play Annie really well. Furthermore, she's around the middle the list of win rates in accordance to the mid lane. There are a good number of mages on that perform better and an even shorter amount that perform worse and the other mid laners are either AD or they are off pick champs. She's been like that for awhile now. Her kit is safe, but it does not give her the power she needs to have kill potential outside of flashing in for a kill. She's just a Q farmer.

ankoanko19Sep 1, 20181 votes

So she should have a 10% pickrate and 53% wr aswell?

okamiyasha95Sep 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So she should have a 10% pickrate and 53% wr aswell?

What? She doesn't have anywhere near a pick rate of 10 percent according to the stat website you gave me. Her pick rate according to your website says she has a pick rate of 2.55. I'm not saying if she had a higher pick rate anything. I'm simply pointing out the fact that she has a considerably low pick rate. The buff to her AA range only brought her up to the level of gameplay she should have been at. It wasn't a buff. Therefore, she is not doing any better than before the so called buffs.

When did you start arguing over stats and stopped arguing over what makes a champion feel balanced? Stats do not balance champions. Stats only represent the trends and patterns of that time. This is why the game is a clown fiesta and not getting anywhere good in terms of feeling fun to play for the last few patches. You keep zoning in on the stats. Using stats as a means to tell me the level of balance or if a champ is broken does not work. Nobody says "Oh my gosh! Zoe does 5000 damage on her q and 10000 damage on her passive!!!" Nobody says "Oh my gosh! Brand has a 52 percent win rate so he's broken!!!" They say "Oh my gosh! Brand's W is annoying to deal with,""Brand does too much damage for a support," "Brand does too much damage!" or "Zoe does too much damage," "If you get hit with Zoe's bubble, you might as well be dead," "Zoe can miss everything and still one shot me!"

Move away from stats and talk about how you, with your experiences, feel about the champ when you play her and play against her and discuss from that point of view. Not from, oh this website says she has a win rate of 52 so she must be balanced because a 50 percent win rate represents balance. Because win rates don't mean jack squat in terms of balancing. A champ can have a win rate of 40 and still be considered OP and a champ can a win rate of 54 and still be balanced. trying to get every champ down to a win rate of 50 will only hurt the game in the long run. It punishes players from ever mastering a champ and it is punishes players from trying to climb with a champ. There will always be a handful of champs that performs better than the rest. That's why the ban system is in place.

ChalizardSep 4, 20181 votes

Do not buff Annie, please. Her power should be that she is extremly easy to play and she should remain a friendly newbie champion, just like Garen should have. I still remember days when Leblanc Ahri Annie were dominating mid and it was the worst meta for midlane ever.

okamiyasha95Sep 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Do not buff Annie, please. Her power should be that she is extremly easy to play and she should remain a friendly newbie champion, just like Garen should have. I still remember days when were dominating mid and it was the worst meta for midlane ever.

I wasn't there for that time. Annie will always be newbie friendly and easy to use because her kit is easy to use. It's all point and click and it let's you farm pretty easily.

ChalizardSep 5, 20181 votes

That is my point, I am not a fan of making champions like garen and Annie strong in every division.

okamiyasha95Sep 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That is my point, I am not a fan of making champions like garen and Annie strong in every division.

If that is the case, then why not argue to remove them from PvP and only have them playable as practice champs or in customs? Champions that are easy to use are just as important and playable as every other champ. Easy to play champs should not be weaker than harder to play champs. Easy to play champs not only stress mechanical basics when you play them, but they stress mechanical basics when you play against them. If you can't handle the basic champions, then maybe you should start playing them to understand how easy to beat they really are and how mechanical good you think you are. it's just more about how you're team is able to deal with them rather than how easy it is for you to deal with them. But even when you lane against them, they are easy to beat. Albeit you don't get countered.

RequiemsfireSep 4, 20181 votes

Annie is balanced around her ability range which is relatively short compared to other mages, on top of that she lacks any form of mobility and lacks options, she's still good in the chaos of team fights or for getting a good initiation, the aa range gives her some extra ability to harass(especially as support) or farm better which I think is really good overall in bring in this champion some love especially since a lot of midlaners completely outrange her or have tools to mitigate her damage enough to make it difficult to trade back.

okamiyasha95Sep 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Annie is balanced around her ability range which is relatively short compared to other mages, on top of that she lacks any form of mobility and lacks options, she's still good in the chaos of team fights or for getting a good initiation, the aa range gives her some extra ability to harass(especially as support) or farm better which I think is really good overall in bring in this champion some love especially since a lot of midlaners completely outrange her or have tools to mitigate her damage enough to make it difficult to trade back.

I'd rather have her Q range a buff. Even if she decided to poke with her Q, she'd run out of mana really fast and her farming would suffer. Reverting the AA will also keep her range shorter thus making Annie support, which shouldn't even be a thing when you have Brand support, not that good in the laning phase. Increasing the range on her Q will open up more trading and all in opportunities for her. She'd still be short in the attack department. Her short range is what compensates for her burst dmg, but in response to being poked out by a lot of other mid laners, I just think Riot could've made a better decision. By increasing her AA range, you attempt to balance out her weaknesses, but it overtunes her. Now she can build AA items and constantly poke a lot of the champions she should not be able to poke for free on top of her Q poke. Against certain matchups, she goes from being a counter to being a complete lane dominator. By only increasing her Q range and reverting the AA range, she not only keeps the same tempo against those matchups where she counters and only her Q is useful in poking those champs, but she also is able to touch other laners that outrange her. The reason for the buff was to address the complete weakness Annie has against other laners that have higher range against her in their abilities. Sure she's an easy to play champ, but I'm saying buff her Q range. I'm not saying buff all her abilities and AA range. She'll still have the short range. She'd just put out a little more damage than the AA damage.