... so lets nerf every other build and force people to use Runic Echo as the only viable option by nerfing his BASE VALUES
Udyr Turtle Stance (W) shield value lowered to 60/95/130/165/200 from 60/100/140/180/220 Phoenix Stance (R) proc damage lowered to 40/75/110/145/180 from 40/80/120/160/200
RiotMeddler17 votesRiot logic:
Udyr's too strong when using a range of different builds. Runic Echoes is also too strong on a range of champions. Let's therefore nerf both a small amount and reassess, rather than trying to get everything done with one bigger cut that won't address both issues.
Dreadlocks1 votesI'm just kinda surprised you are going after his R instead of his E or passive... Being an Udyr player myself, i dont think his R damage is something to brag about, however his MS is.
Tyrone Lannister10 votesRekt
Karma Deified1 votesEver consider health scaling w/%health restore(replacing life steal) on turtle to make each stance unique?
blfUvZ8Ybu1 votesRiot logic:
Udyr's too strong when using a range of different builds. Runic Echoes is also too strong on a range of champions. Let's therefore nerf both a small amount and reassess, rather than trying to get everything done with one bigger cut that won't address both issues.
Meddler you don't make empty comments.
You pay attention to Azir's topics.
You pay attention to game balance.
blfUvZ8Ybu1 votesRiot logic:
Udyr's too strong when using a range of different builds. Runic Echoes is also too strong on a range of champions. Let's therefore nerf both a small amount and reassess, rather than trying to get everything done with one bigger cut that won't address both issues.
Shortly you overnerfed Azir.You can not deny.Until his rework you must be buff him.
Critmaster Garen2 votesRiot logic:
Udyr's too strong when using a range of different builds. Runic Echoes is also too strong on a range of champions. Let's therefore nerf both a small amount and reassess, rather than trying to get everything done with one bigger cut that won't address both issues.
so. can you please give us a reasonable answer what youre doing with steraks? because you had like a dozen different options to tune the item to be less effective on either squishies or marksmen than juggs. everything from changing the way the shield scales, to putting a health threshold on it like warmorgs, or making it a melee only item.
a health nerf will either accomplish the following.
a) nothing, as adc and other squishies will still buy it to negate burst. b) they return to g.a. or banshees as defensive item, which effectively only leaves brusiers and juggs nerfed.
why didnt you do something that made more sense in this situation?
edit.: also, jaurims fist needs a look. the item makes us farm stats we already payed for, which is silly. usually items with stats that have to be farmed end up to be very cost effective. in case of jaurims it merely returns our investment.
TehNACHO4 votes"As the only viable option"
Do you even Udyr my boy?
Karma Deified2 votesHe clearly doesn't.
MisterHealYoGirl2 votesUdyr is viable with every single jungle enchantment, to one degree or another.
Quepha2 votesIt's 20 off of the skills only when they're maxed, that isn't a huge deal with Udyr plus Udyr's winrate was still super high before people started building echoes on him.
The phoenix stance nerf is like 1/8th of an auto attack lost per proc, the turtle stance nerf is like 1/8th of an auto soaked per cast and is still exactly the same power until you would actually start maxing turtle at level 5, it's really not big and runic echoes definitely suffered a larger nerf.
Apocyliptic1 votesIt's not the only option, and after this nerf, he won't be RELAINT on the item, trust me. Personally, I like the devourer build better anyway, because of how HARD the runic Echos build falls off damage wise later.
I've always wanted Tiger Stance Udyr to be Viable anyhow... as an Udyr main, you simply never go it because of the lack of waveclear, but maybe this will open Udyr up to Tiger Stance as well because his pheonix stance won't be just so objectively better.
Look, at the end of the day, I just wanna play my champion again. If nerfing his base values is what's required, I'm fine with it. He won't be gutted from it, or at least I hope not.
Keevalroy1 votesRunic Echoes was the problem from the beginning...I'm just glad they actually hit the item before more of its users got hit.
I'm not putting Udyr with her because he's still strong with it despite the nerfs, as are other Runic junglers. Not to say she's weak, would just prefer a revert.
adjoth1 votesA strong item does not mean you should change the champion, nor the item itself. This is just one of the many obvious dangers of non-meta build that have no solution. Like when AP 
can ult you for 1K true damage. Best thing that could happen is put a short CD on the item, which just make more issues for more meta AP juggler's which still run OOM really easily in the jungle. To make matters worst 
is still a item that very much exist which has the same affect. To remedy this issue all AP scaling Mages would need to have a second look at which is a nightmare. Point is balancing Meta and non-meta builds is a nightmare.
