Skarner and Rammus Early Jungle

ImperatorVult·Dec 29, 2014·9 votes·1,438 views

Rammus especially, and lately Skarner had been favorites of mine until the jungle changes.

Rammus I have had to abandon completely, I am so far behind due to long clear times and constant returning to base because even small minion camps are huge obsticals. Rammus was a common pick before but after first week of jungle changes I have not seen him once. I assume people have had to make same choice.

I have loved skarner since the changes that made him more of a disruptive tank, and a late game terror. Pre jungle changes, he fit in well, and would start to stand out usually around lvl12 building from there. With the new jungle it has made early skarner a complete hell. Ganks even with your ult are huge risks because of how little dmg you do and usually end up getting killed. I usually stop becoming cannonfodder around lvl16 now which really hurts me and my team.

14 Comments

ThePlasticSporkDec 29, 20143 votes

Skarner's clear is fine. I've cleared the whole jungle 2-3 times as Skarner before my first back before, with some health to spare.

Skarner's damage is hardly the focus of his ganks. The fucking guy can grab you and pull you a pretty damn significant distance with his ult, nevermind his strong slow and movement speed on top of that. If his laner does any kind of significant damage and Skarner gets his ult in on you, the chances of you surviving are NOT high at all.

Even if I were to concede that Skarner's early game is very weak, that's because his late game is incredibly strong. His damage for a tank with just a triforce is pretty high, and he's incredibly bulky and fast and if he has flash up then the enemy ADC has to play INSANELY cautiously to not get flash grabbed so Skarner's team autowins the teamfight. The sad reality is that early game will always be preferable to late game simply because the early game is guaranteed to happen and in that sense snowballing is an inherently more reliable strategy than surviving until late game. But that's a question of game design rather than any flaw with Skarner himself.

If you want an early jungle hell, you should try any of the assassin junglers that used to be strong. Kha'Zix has a hella hard time early game, as does Diana.

MessaigaDec 29, 20143 votes

I find myself playing Skarner all the time, snowballing a majority of the time and if not snowballing at least contributing to my team with utility. Here's what I've found produces very reliable results:

Early Jungle Path is Gromp -> Blue -> Wolves -> Red -> Krugs -> Razorbeaks -> 1st recall. Alternatively you could start at Krugs, for safety (depends on which side you are starting at) but you'll clear slower because of it.

I prefer Stalker's Blade over Trailblazer, but either one works on him. I may just find myself ganking a lot (after my first clear) so that's why I've been getting it more.

Masteries should be 9/21/0 or if you want to be really specific with masteries you can put some points into the utility tree (for me I go 7/14/9).

Runes should be something like Flat AD marks, flat armor seals, 6 flat CDR glyphs + 3 of whatever you prefer, and for quints you can take movement speed or attack speed (I prefer attack speed).

For skill order, get your W at level 2 and rank your Q to rank 2 at level 3 rather than getting your E, you will clear faster and have more health because of it. Save your E for level 4.

By the time you clear your jungle for the first time, you should end up with about 150-300 HP. And remember when clearing Razorbeaks, clear the little ones first because they deal more damage (and are easier to kill).

L7xLoTekDec 30, 20142 votes

I personally like to look at the state of the game once I finish blue to see if I should just farm or go straight to red and then gank.

I did not know that about the chickens tho. Interesting.

TheKingDodoDec 29, 20142 votes

blue side start feels really weak for anyone without sustain and in need of mana D: it works for udyr because of his turtle and him benefiting from gromp. Otherwise red-side start is much much safer for everyone. you get auto-stuns from krugs, and/or heals from red. I think they should just shift the damages so that the blue side camps do slightly less damage to help the mana hungry doods. I shifted to red side as soon as I realize starting blueside usually slows your clear and gives you less health after.

VisigothDec 30, 20142 votes

I feel like most jungles really puts on sunglasses TANKED in the new jungle

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHHHHH. But seriously yeah most tank junglers are screwed especially when champions like Lee Sin, Kha'Zix or Pantheon will have better clear than Skarner or Rammus and still WAY better ganks and (other than Pantheon since 4.21) can do drag WAY easier and often alone.

cough Udyr cough

junglerboy16Dec 30, 20142 votes

they are buffing Skarner's mana costs on his Q, so that could help his mana sustain a little, but they need to buff the base damage on it by something like 2 per rank of physical and magical damage both, like 20/32/44/56/68 up from 18/28/38/48/58. They nerfed his Q damage a lot after changing his passive, which is understandable, because he was strong then when his clear speed wasn't too heavily effected by it, but now that every camp has so much more health, he really doesn't do as well.

P.S. Do you build trinity force on Skarner? because I tend to have more success if I buy rangers into trinity rather than finish my jungle item first. Iceborn gauntlet is an ok alternative to Trinity for skarner, but the AOE damage doesn't help him as much as trinity forces damage most of the time in my experience.

CursedByLightDec 30, 20143 votes

Skarner has the highest base AD in the game. Building trinity is a necessity.

OldypantsDec 30, 20142 votes

Skarner is actually at a pretty good spot atm. Save your E when you are ganking for the enemy's gap closer to be used, rush for warrior enchantment and sheen as fast as possible and remember to focus the little chickens before the big one. If you think you need to carry harder, go for trinity and if not, go for the gauntlet. I've also found Righteous Glory to work really well with Skarner.

DanLikesBaconDec 30, 20141 votes

I have had absolutely no problems on rammus whatsoever in terms of jungling. I go 0/21/9 and get the mastery for biscuits and go 4.5% movespeed 9 armor on runes. For clear path i go Krugs (SMITE) -> Red -> Blue -> (Wolves/back/gank based on hp). Try it in a custom and see how much hp u get, additionally when you get a leash plus the biscuit mastery you are much healthier early game on rammus.

I am an avid Rammus main and i have to say at the end of Season 4 he was stupidly broken and the nerfs he got recently + the bad clear are reasonable because this helps stall his amazing late game. Before Rammus had it easy in the jungle and all he needed to do was buy homegaurds mobi (which i still do) but he had it easier cause the jungle wasn't strong at all.

Just do that first clear and after that you want to heavily prioritize ganking/camping because thats Rammus' job whether people like it or not.

CursedByLightDec 30, 20141 votes

As with Skarner you should be able to inflict a considerable amount of cc if using item 3706 . After that your early ganks should consist of peel if he decides he can't run. After that the most you have to do is put your trust in the lane that you're ganking for damage. I always find that I can't be as effective ganking bot lane early. Usually the bot lane you are ganking won't have enough mobility and you won't get as decent of a gank, due to the fact that you probably took the support's stun and many shots to the face, possibly dying due to the lack of tank items. Most of the time I am only effective if I take full armor runes if I hope to gank bot lane. Long story short don't gank bot lane if you aren't prepared with armor and the appopriate boots.

MahnigguhDec 30, 20141 votes

So here is how i rammus...yeah its dumb but i have decent clears with it. i take flat armor marks seals quints and cd glyphs then i go full defensive masteries. THen my first item is a cloth armor and some pots. I take my w first. after my first aa i hit w and mobs kill themselves... samethign with adcs :)

Robert SmithDec 30, 20141 votes

What I do with rammus is build the purple jungle item but not fully upgraded. Then I get Mobile Boots+Home guards because I had to return to base more often to heal. So with the boots and his Q I went back into the jungle so quickly it is as if I never left. Plus I like making race car noises when I do this.

VenowolfDec 30, 20141 votes

His W need some change's to make feel more like a unostoppable tank:

60/70/80/90/100 (+ 8/9/10/11/12 % TOTAL of Skarner health) and also make's some kind of tenacity buff. some like this: While the shield persists, Skarner gains 15% of tenacity.

I'l agree with the increase of the duration of his passive stun ,turn into 0.75/1/1.25 feels better, now that everyone have acces to the tenacity elixir the stun duration need some review IMO.

MessaigaDec 31, 20141 votes

Skarner's already got buffs coming off of PBE, and he really doesn't need to be tankier. Basically, most people build him tank because he doesn't really have much support for many other builds (Low scaling on his Q and E make damage builds mostly pointless, lack of good offensive itemization he can make use of outside of sheen-based items). In contrast, the damage items that do work on him are very strong (mainly talking about item 3025 and item 3078 ).

Iceborn Gauntlet grants Skarner some tank stats, fixes his mana problems, gives him a bit of damage, and makes him nearly impossible to escape if you lack hard CC or a long-range (talking the length of a Vi Q or so) dash. He's also the best user of Trinity Force in the game, since he can proc spellblade every time it is off cooldown and has the highest base attack damage at level 18 in the game.