Garen's ult reveals the true shaco

magic pole·Oct 7, 2015·18 votes·5,081 views

idk if this works on other champions with clones, Leblanc and Wukong, but I was just Garen on an ARAM. enemy Shaco becomes the villain and when he ults, the marker is still hovering the real shaco like a red buff would.

The clone should be an actual clone at the time of casting, i.e., if shaco was the villain before he ulted, the real shaco and his clone should both have the villain marker.

I'd argue that this should be the case for buffs too, e.g. give Leblanc's mirror image a blue buff if she had a blue buff when her passive pops...but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

tl;dr put villain marker on shaco AND his clone. the same goes for wukong, leblanc, and any other duplicating champs i may have forgotten.

37 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoirOct 7, 201515 votes

Anyone have a video of this happening in the last patch or two? I put a good amount of time into some special casing that I think fixed the Villainy marker against clones in a recent patch, so if it's still happening, I'd like to be able to see it so I can identify what part of that may not be working.

EedatOct 7, 20157 votes

The problem isn't that Villainy works on clones. Its the fact that if Shaco, for example, is the villain then when he uses his ult he will still be marked while the clone will not be. It's a free way of determining the clone from across the map without having to use any spell or summoner to mark the real Shaco

RiotRiotRepertoirOct 7, 201518 votes

I get that. I specifically special-cased the Villain debuff so that the clone inherits the visuals from Villainy, so if it's not working, I'd like to try and figure out why.

Lintu PuckOct 8, 20155 votes

I actually think it marking the true one makes sense. Villains will not escape JUSTICE!

Remlap1223Oct 8, 20152 votes

What have you done? You're supposed to say that Shaco is the most underpowered champion in the game and that he needs a million buffs to be viable again!

Baron Von BanginOct 8, 20155 votes

I never want to go back to the dark days of Shaco being viable or powerful.

DeadPuddleOct 10, 20151 votes

Shaco main here. I'm being perfectly unbiased when I say shaco is already very vulnerable to AOE damage. garen is the type of champion that's already super effective vs him. there really is no need to handicap shaco further with this 'bug'

SaixosOct 8, 20153 votes

There's also another issue with Garen's passive: The icon. When Quinn ults her icon changes to Valor, so every time she's the villain Garen can see when she ults, which is problematic since we like using it to roam. Same issue applies to Gnar to a lesser extent.

Someone else brought up Kindred when I brought up this issue as well, that Kindred may have the same issue. :c

(Please don't remove the icon changing I like it :c)

LordGeovanniOct 8, 20151 votes

do the same with yorick's ult. its real noticable when spread out which is the real champion ulted but when goruped and lots of champions around the split damage is a real help. ps buff yorick him more ghouls whats the point of capping his passive at 20% if he cant summon more than 4 ghouls anyway and summoning a new one will kill the old one. and remember this when you put on kalista's champion target passive

GubaguyOct 8, 20152 votes

you know how else you can tell a shaco from his clone? jungle buffs. ignite. the fact that the clone dies much faster. a pink ward. common sense by seeing which shaco goes where.

BetaDude40Oct 8, 20151 votes

The clone shares all current stats with Shaco when the clone is made, so it can't die faster than the normal Shaco

Pink wards do not reveal which one is the clone (though it will reveal Shaco if he Qs immediately after cloning).

Common sense isn't as helpful, since good Shaco players can really make it confusing by switching up where the real one goes (like sending the real one to the middle lane and the fake one to the turret).

GubaguyOct 8, 20152 votes

no, shaco clones ghet ITEM stats, but not runes or masteries, shaco clones also take 50% more damage (they die FASTER), and if i see a shaco running at a tower i assume its the clone every time becuase shacos ALWAYS make clones tank for them.

BetaDude40Oct 8, 20151 votes

Well, I didn't see the 50% increased damage taken thing. I guess that's so it's quicker for the enemy to pop him for knife explosion?

GubaguyOct 8, 20152 votes

or becuase having 2 lvl 18 shacos with full HP and full build can split push an entire lane in about 30 seconds, take the nexus alone, or jsut be impossibel to kill in general

LordGeovanniOct 8, 20151 votes

i dont like shaco but clones should be clone not poor knock offs it already cant have runes and masteries damage why 50% increased damage one or the other

GubaguyOct 8, 20152 votes

because then its a 5v6. also because its a CLONE, not the real deal, the idea is that you get tricked into killing it when shaco is low and you get killed in the resulting explosion.

Ra1dOct 8, 20151 votes

I just tested this out in a custom. I played shaco i got a kill on a galio and waited till garen was level 6 then hit shaco's ult. Both me and the clone were marked as villains. I would have taken a short clip but windows 10 recording feature doesn't seem to apply to league. The villain application to a clone works. Its likely it was a bug so you may have to look out for further instances of this happening.

Jump Reset JumpOct 8, 20151 votes

Just remove it.

YossarianSenseiOct 7, 201510 votes

Everything and it's mother reveals 'true shaco'

Any one of them 'hit them 3 times' Rings Baron Buff Bleed Stacks Ignite etc etc

Remlap1223Oct 8, 20153 votes

You know, as much as I can't stand Shaco, having that shit removed on his ultimate would still be less toxic than Riposte because of cooldowns and the inability to bounce hard CC back to targets.

EedatOct 7, 20155 votes

I think you guys are missing the point. OP is saying that Garen's Nemesis interaction reveals the real Shaco for free. Yes I know, bleeds, buffs, stacks, ignite, etc can reveal the real Shaco. The point is is that Garen reveals the real Shaco from across the map without having to use any abilities to tag him for completely free

Ser GarlandOct 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think you guys are missing the point. OP is saying that Garen's Nemesis interaction reveals the real Shaco for free. Yes I know, bleeds, buffs, stacks, ignite, etc can reveal the real Shaco. The point is is that Garen reveals the real Shaco from across the map without having to use any abilities to tag him for completely free

Not for free. The shack has to kill Garen's friends first. ACCURSED VILLAIN!

Hayaishi2Oct 8, 20155 votes

Can't hide from justice bro

magic poleOct 8, 20151 votes

best comment

MisterHealYoGirlOct 7, 20152 votes

Yes, it does do this. Shaco's clone is a champion (making it a viable target of all champ-target stuff, and an invalid target of Smite), but it's can't be the villain since it doesn't have the most kills in the last five minutes.

L Psy KongrooOct 7, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yes, it does do this. Shaco's clone is a champion (making it a viable target of all champ-target stuff, and an invalid target of Smite), but it's can't be the villain since it doesn't have the most kills in the last five minutes.

I played Shaco vs. Volibear the other day, and my clone would always get feared by his E as if it were a minion. If that's not some bullshit coding, I don't know what is. This can't possibly be intentional.

The Sword SaintOct 7, 20152 votes

That sounds hilarious actually.

SookoOct 8, 20151 votes

It works on Tibbers, Donger Turrets (the little ones), ghouls, and probably JitBs, LeBlanc's clone and Voidlings too. (not sure about Zac's blobs)

I'm pretty sure that Leona's E can also distinguish the real Shaco too.

I think it has to do with the clones counting as player summoned minions, so it might be intentional. (has been going on for ages too)

kaltenashesOct 8, 20151 votes

Dragon pets too?

KaeblenOct 8, 20152 votes

getting to fear or terror that dragon would be so hilarious.

but not nearly as hilarious as doing it to zac's respawn blobs.

Silents429Oct 8, 20151 votes

Why wouldn't it be intentional? Shaco clone counts as a pet like any other clones, and Voli E works on those.

TeemoJenkinsOct 7, 20151 votes

And yes this happens with Wu and LeBlanc to include buffs, bleed stacks etc etc.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 8, 20151 votes

1: This had been asked for and fixed. 2: Is it all that bad for Garen to be anti-clone like how Rek'sai is anti-stealth?

KaeblenOct 8, 20151 votes

Rek'sai is not all that good at anti-stealth, since she can't fight them while his tremor sense reveals them.

also, that isn't a cross-map ability, so it's really not a good comparison.

OyddAWqJ5rOct 8, 20151 votes

She

KaeblenOct 8, 20151 votes

thanks. I fixed it now.

magic poleOct 8, 20151 votes

apparently not, because the villain marker was only on one shaco in my game YESTERDAY.

yes it is bad, why should he get this extra power against clones (especially considering the clones are usually activated upon reaching low levels of HP, and his ult is an execute...). there are already plenty of anti-clone/stealth options available, for a cheap 100-250g. why does garen deserve to get that for free? same exact kit, with the addition of free hard-countering shaco's ultimate.

let's just arbitrarily make every champ be able to tell apart the real from clones and call it a day.