I'll admit I've mostly been playing off-meta Junglers lately (
) but the utility of say a 
, 
or even a 
seem to heavily outweigh the raw stats that are jungle upgrades. Especially the tank one, why spend an early 2k gold on a bit of HP when i can just rush for a faster jungle clear?
AHeroNamedHawke6 votes"a bit of hp"
You know Juggernaut gives more hp than Sunfire right?
Knight Devout3 votesAnd tenacity. And cdr.
Plus, it's ok not to rush jungle item enchantments, is just there to make the machete slot efficient.
Just imagine how orrible would be to stick for the whole game with a subpar item.
.
.
.
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AHeroNamedHawke1 votesAnd tenacity. And cdr.
Plus, it's ok not to rush jungle item enchantments, is just there to make the machete slot efficient.
Just imagine how orrible would be to stick for the whole game with a subpar item. . . . .
The item pays for itself after 6 wards and then saves you money on them for the rest of the game
I wouldn't call that bad by any stretch
Knight Devout2 votesMachete pays itself with the bonus gold you get from jungling. Let's remove the upgrades then?
Nah, let's keep the support being the 5 item gimped players, they are so happy that teambuilder is overflowing with them! Or is it?
FyshinaTux2 votesIf you ever watch pro play, it's not just the supports... well, until full build everyone... >.>
yea that argument is going nowhere... :(
#Whycan'tsupportsget6items?D:
Knight Devout1 votesExactly. At this point,remove machete and upgrades. You want the jungle? You pay the price.
#NoFunPolice
AHeroNamedHawke1 votesExactly. At this point,remove machete and upgrades. You want the jungle? You pay the price.
#NoFunPolice
Jungle and support arent remotely comparable in this case
Are you legitimately retarded
Knight Devout1 votes/ignore
AHeroNamedHawke1 votes/ignore
What a compelling argument
And I have played the role at a much higher level than you, not as much of course but enough to understand it
Knight Devout1 votesYet you left it to play mid. To be more accurate, to play resourceless assassins/hypercarries mid.
K , thanks for your contribution. Oh, wait you didn't. You just said "supports are fine, sightstone is good, people complaining that support isn't equally fun are whining" and called it a day.
AHeroNamedHawke2 votesYet you left it to play mid. To be more accurate, to play resourceless assassins/hypercarries mid.
K , thanks for your contribution. Oh, wait you didn't. You just said "supports are fine, sightstone is good, people complaining that support isn't equally fun are whining" and called it a day.
Supports have been getting tons of attention for over a year now, have gold income slightly below if not on par with jungling and don't even have to farm for it, and got plenty of itemization choices for every support you would want to play on top of all the standard itemization for each role.
The whining about support has gotten to the point of blind ignorance; one item doesn't give you massive combat stats, instead giving huge gold generation, and suddenly it's awful
Pack it in
Oh, and I'm a top laner buddy. But guess what? Fighters don't get any items, so I play assassins instead.
Knight Devout1 votesSo you don't play fighters and supports for the same reason? That they don't have items?
And on PBE the gold jungle has been costantly increased since the start of the preseason.
AHeroNamedHawke1 votesSo you don't play fighters and supports for the same reason? That they don't have items?
And on PBE the gold jungle has been costantly increased since the start of the preseason.
I don't play supports because I don't enjoy supporting
I don't play fighters because they're garbage and I can't win
I had over 700 Darius games last season, but this season I'm told I'm not allowed to play him anymore
And jungle gold wasn't increased repeatedly, they dropped the gold of every camp and then gave their items gold gen to prevent poaching
Keep up the top notch game knowledge
Knight Devout1 votesSo what? Junglers all pick machete, so the gold has been increased. Unless you try to jungle without smite.
Which you don't. The fact you need machete to get the gold is irrelevant. Oh, maybe is relevant to your zed when you go to poach raptors.
In short, you don't play support and fighters because you don't enjoy them (i.e. they are not fun), but refuse to acknowledge the problem (which means, people find support not fun, and the sightstone/support itemization is part of the problem).
AHeroNamedHawke1 votesSo what? Junglers all pick machete, so the gold has been increased. Unless you try to jungle without smite.
JUNGLE MOBS GIVE LESS GOLD AND MACHETE GIVES MORE
NET GAIN OF 0
Fucking christ I am done with you
Elphrihaim1 votes[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kAsvIcAr,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2014-12-18T00:59:29.481+0000)
JUNGLE MOBS GIVE LESS GOLD AND MACHETE GIVES MORE
NET GAIN OF 0
Fucking christ I am done with you
Well, actually, they decreased the large mob gold by X...
And then base Machete grants you Xg per mob...
But then upgraded Machete gives you >Xg per mob.
They HAVE increased the amount of gold in the jungle for the jungler, though not by much.
AHeroNamedHawke1 votesWell, actually, they decreased the large mob gold by X...
And then base Machete grants you Xg per mob...
But then upgraded Machete gives you >Xg per mob.
They HAVE increased the amount of gold in the jungle for the jungler, though not by much.
Yes they finally got that 1 increase
A bit different than "constantly increased gold all preseason"
The effort to draw a parallel between jungle and support items is giving me brain damage
AHeroNamedHawke1 votesMachete pays itself with the bonus gold you get from jungling. Let's remove the upgrades then?
Nah, let's keep the support being the 5 item gimped players, they are so happy that teambuilder is overflowing with them! Or is it?
....you're going to be placing wards the entire game either way
Do you prefer paying for every ward for 40 minutes AND not having a 6th inventory slot because you need wards?
Not to mention how ridiculous that comparison is to begin with, seeing as jungle camps have 100 second respawn timers and there are only 6 large mobs in the jungle
Paying off the machete with its passive would take 2 full clears and 7 mob clears, as the buffs have 5 minute respawn timers instead of 100 seconds
Meanwhile sightstone is "place 6 wards in 10 minutes congratz you are gold efficient"
Knight Devout1 votesThat doesn't solve nothing at all. Being cost efficient is trivial when the cost is just 800 gold and the only usefulness is warding. Doran items are cost efficient. So , don't sell them, right?
Do you prefer paying for every ward for 40 minutes AND not having a 6th inventory slot because you need wards?
No, I prefer having wards AND having a 6th slot. But what do you know, zero support games in your match history ;)
Duke Anax2 votesThat's why I lliked the S4 Golem Spirit. You could get a sixth item without sacrificing all your warding.
AHeroNamedHawke1 votesThat doesn't solve nothing at all. Being cost efficient is trivial when the cost is just 800 gold and the only usefulness is warding. Doran items are cost efficient. So , don't sell them, right?
No, I prefer having wards AND having a 6th slot. But what do you know, zero support games in your match history ;)
K and where do you plan on putting them exactly? Having a sightstone equivalent item with high combat stats would just be overpowered
And Im sorry I forgot teambuilder is a measure of game balance
How many times have you played support in high diamond again?
Knight Devout1 votesAs I said, there are a lot of ways to implement sightstone changes and keep it support specific.
At least I play the role.
Hillowrym3 votesIt's not about gold efficiency, it's about the inventory space.
AHeroNamedHawke2 votesIt's not about gold efficiency, it's about the inventory space.
And you'll be buying wards with or without sightstone
We can always go back to s2 boots 1 + philo + hog + wards at 45 minutes if you guys would prefer
Knight Devout1 votessigh then you come on with retarded post "OMG RITO WHY LONG QUEUE WITHOUT SUPPORTS, TEAMBUILDER IS TRASH!". Why in heaven should a 5v5 game have 10 people having fun instead of 8! The boldness of the request.
Meep Man1 votes
Ruby Sightstone needs a bigger reason to be bought than just a little bit of bonus health.
AHeroNamedHawke1 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kAsvIcAr,comment-id=0000000000000002,timestamp=2014-12-17T22:17:32.858+0000)
Why? There isnt anything wrong with it and supports already have plenty of itemization to choose from
Other classes need their items looked at, support has gotten more than enough attention
Zen Fury1 votes[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kAsvIcAr,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-17T10:58:37.409+0000)
The item pays for itself after 6 wards and then saves you money on them for the rest of the game
I wouldn't call that bad by any stretch
So do you see anyone buying one besides the support and rarely the jungler, in spite of the fact that EVERYONE should be placing at least 6 wards per game?
No, you don't. Why? Because it is outclassed by every other item that people need to build for the rest of the game.
Out of all the positions in the game, only supports are forced to buy and KEEP a sub-par item if they hope to utilize what little gold they do get efficiently. Most of the time supports never even upgrade the sightstone (or do it very late game) since the gold is much more useful being applied to items that do something useful, like providing Armor, MR, or AP.
Sightstone needs upgrade paths like the jungle items.
AHeroNamedHawke1 votes[{quoted}](name=Zen Fury,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kAsvIcAr,comment-id=0000000000000003,timestamp=2014-12-18T00:33:36.634+0000)
So do you see anyone buying one besides the support and rarely the jungler, in spite of the fact that EVERYONE should be placing at least 6 wards per game?
No, you don't. Why? Because it is outclassed by every other item that people need to build for the rest of the game.
Out of all the positions in the game, only supports are forced to buy and KEEP a sub-par item if they hope to utilize what little gold they do get efficiently. Most of the time supports never even upgrade the sightstone (or do it very late game) since the gold is much more useful being applied to items that do something useful, like providing Armor, MR, or AP.
Sightstone needs upgrade paths like the jungle items.
gj
Now every single person on the team buys a sightstone with no drawbacks, vision gets out of control and they nerf it
You won the game
The Oasis1 votesI do upgrade it eventually, but that doesn't help the fact that right now it takes 20 years to kill camps with tanks.
AHeroNamedHawke1 votesI do upgrade it eventually, but that doesn't help the fact that right now it takes 20 years to kill camps with tanks.
By the time you get a Sunfire you should have the base damage to blow through camps anyway
2600g after your 750 jungle item is a fairly large investment
AtheosisX2 votesIf you play a tank jungler there is no reason to upgrade fully early on. Juggernaut sucks.
Cale0171 votesUntil you realize that a Kayle with a stacked Devourer's can melt people even faster in the late game, that a Trundle with Warrior's has an insane damage output coupled with his ult, that a Shyvana who's been good about stacking her Devourer can 2v1 in the mid game, a Mundo with Juggernaut... it's a Mundo with 500 more health, that doesn't warrant an explanation. In fact, two of the people that you just listed off are actually pretty decent junglers all things considered, one of them is strictly designed for it right now after 4.21's buff to her W, and another of your list USED to be a jungler.
Lulu's not a jungler. That's just... weird.
And Cho'gath? To be quite honest I haven't seen a jungle Cho'Gath in so long I don't know whether he'd do better with a Magus or a Juggernaut, but I'm going to assume Juggernaut. Which if you're building a tank is sort of a nice thing to have.
Erberor1 votesWell, I've been experimenting with the Devourer on Cho with some AS, and it's been working out pretty nicely, though I do miss out on a fair chunk of health. Of course, my clear speed goes through the roof...
Cho does pretty well in jungle. I think. Maybe.
TheI3igDaddy1 votesYou think? His passive is all about sustain, and his E gives him a free magic damage cleave every auto-attack. Those two factors alone make him a fit jungler, along with his Q and W also being AOE to dump on the razorback and wolf camps. You really don't even need pots after your first B, you just heal it all back.
And yes, Devourer is good on Cho, you just have to rush some defense item after it so he can still be a brick.
HexTechBomber1 votesJuggernaut also gives you some tenacity dude so you don't have to worry bout building MR boots for the tenacity from that, you can get the Movespeed 3 Boots that give Slow Reduction by 25%! Or boots movement 5!
Durzaka1 votesThe jungler enchants are so incredibly cost efficient that you would be out of your mind to not upgrade it as your first purchase.
ExiledTyrant1 votesI just wish there was one more bump up for the enchantments. Each one feels like it could be subbed for one of the 3k+ items later on for more utility or damage.