Why are there no new support masteries?

Durfain·Oct 23, 2016·60 votes·3,844 views

Rito, you're adding lots of new masteries in S7 which I think is great. Obviously the ferocity tree should be fully geared to damage but there's a support keystone in both cunning and resolve so there should be at least some filler support masteries. In particular, a lot of people really miss the additional experience when close to nearby allies mastery around in Season 5. Why not add this mastery into the cunning tree instead of the (even more) damage masteries being added?

75 Comments

yoshi2790Oct 23, 201611 votes

There is an awesome new item, as support player I'm statisfied.

DarkRitualOct 23, 201616 votes

Untill you look at your CDR as a tank support. They are planning to fix that, but nothing's hit PBE yet.

5000000000000000Oct 23, 20162 votes

They are? That's good to hear.

DarkRitualOct 23, 20161 votes

Yeah. I think right now it's a matter of deciding what items may need to be changed to give cdr without being too gold efficient for other tanks.

ProfDrDeathOct 23, 20161 votes

My money is on item 3800 . Potentially the new Knight's Vow.

Big LincolnOct 24, 20161 votes

but i like that item on my tanks >:(

Knight DevoutOct 24, 20161 votes

I think they aren't that happy when tanks can build item that benefit the whole team. One of the reason why Locket is a "cheap" item at 2500 gold is to prevent tanks from buying it and double-dipping on the AoE shield.

I guess the reason behind is that if those items are too good fed tanks give too much power to their team, too, making it a lot harder for the opposing team to recover from a single lost lane. There are some exceptions with The Black Cleaver, but at least that weapon requires you to engage and is usually not built on champions that cannot deal a lot of AoE physical damage.

RainbowIceeOct 24, 20161 votes

till carries abuse it and then riot nerfs it till no one wants to use it anymore.

SkiasOct 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There is an awesome new item, as support player I'm statisfied.

Eh, not that excited about Redemption. If it is strong, it'll get nerfed. I can definitely see 5500 range being problematic.

SpecterVonBarenOct 23, 20166 votes

Fresh Blood and Greenfather's Gift look like they're intended for poke supports.

OdinakosOct 24, 20163 votes

Also people tend to forget the new shield keystone. All in supports gonna love it, especially Leona.

Spaceman5pffOct 24, 20161 votes

Depending on the range of detection for "nearby enemies" Leona could easily waste it when ulting, though, getting a shield for maybe only one person.

Not saying it would be bad, just being realistic.

OdinakosOct 24, 20161 votes

What? No never, thats not realistic at all. Leona will opt Courage of Collosus 90% of the time. It does not matter if she "wastes"(aka getting a smaller advandage compared to other keystones) for teamfights, she is gaining a huge advandage on laning. She will basically force all ins harder, as the enemy lose the option to kite her back. The snowball potential and effect becomes even better, to the point she might see significant more presence at pro scene.

The only reason Leo wont opt for CoC is if she gets countered and assumes the peeling role. And even then, it depends on team comps.

Spaceman5pffOct 24, 20161 votes

Okay, seriously though.

My comment was not even 3 full lines of text and you failed to read half of the last line.

CoC will be GREAT on Leona. I was just stating as a reminder that due to detection range, Leo may not get a huge shield if she uses her ult before diving in.

I specifically stated "I am not saying it is bad" I did not say she would waste the keystone.

What I said is, it could be very easy for her to get a shield worth just one champion when going in for a team fight.

The strawmanning is SO real jesus.

AbyssphereOct 23, 20166 votes

The new mastery that gives on-hit damage when leaving bush is really good for supports. Unfortunately, it is in competition with Bandit.

MEMEME670Oct 23, 20161 votes

This.

And honestly it competing with bandit is fine. 3% max hp is really good damage, so I think if you're playing aggro and are ranged you'll be taking this, and if not, bandit

SpecterVonBarenOct 23, 20165 votes

It's not max HP, it's CURRENT HP.

ShadragonOct 23, 20162 votes

AKA "Worthless" Outside of Kindred memes in custom games, there is not one instance of a %Current HP damage effect being useful. Every single useful ability and item with that damage type is paired a flat minimum damage, and it's always the flat minimum damage that makes the ability strong. It's an entirely worthless damage type that can't even accomplish what it's intended to do.

Of course this is a non-keystone mastery we're talking about, so it has to be awful.

SpecterVonBarenOct 24, 20165 votes

It's not worthless but it's certainly not worth giving up Bandit for.

Supreme Senpai69Oct 24, 20161 votes

^. It's how you get your gold.

Athenes LuluOct 23, 20166 votes

CoC isn't a "support mastery"? If you are a designated non-shielding ~~high DPS~~ mage support, you don't even need a "support" mastery...

Also, unless they are shit, anything that adds more gold/exp/vision would heavily outshadow existing choices, pigeonholing and forcing supports to take those.... yeah no.

Or learn to catch up on experience on your own as support; it is your sole responsibility to keep up.

AirKingNeoOct 23, 20165 votes

Supports are in a fine spot. Why would they need buffs?

EDIT: Oh no, the support players are mad because they don't understand that supports are supposed to be weaker than laners.

DarkRitualOct 23, 201617 votes

Ranged champions are in a fine spot, why do they need more masteries that benefit them?

AirKingNeoOct 23, 20167 votes

Not sure. Like Battle Trance looked fine but then you realize ranged champions will permakite.

XicashinaOct 23, 20164 votes

I'm not sure what your experience with support is but supports have been in a bad spot for a long time we are consistently 4-5 levels behind everyone else late game which in addition to our lack of gold makes us nigh useless as anything but cc/utility bots.

The interesting thing is that I believe that the support meta is incredibly balanced right now and very few champions are dumpstered (which might be what you are referring to as "in a fine spot").

The issue that I believe is most problematic for support however is that in a losing lane the support is utterly crushed. There is the issue were you need to let the AD catch up in levels so you want to leave them to farm and get full xp but your roaming is severely weakened as you are so behind.

Anyways just my 2 cents.

AirKingNeoOct 23, 20161 votes

Supports are supposed to lack gold compared to everyone.

You aren't 4-5 levels behind normally.

PrinceOfFunOct 23, 20162 votes

I know, right? It's like these people don't realize thats CC and utility are all supports are supposed to do. they're supposed to be behind everyone else. And hey, I'm a support main myself.

ElikainOct 23, 20166 votes

It's perfectly understandable that supports will never have comparable gold to the rest of the farming champions so they need clever ways to get it. There are already items like FQC, Medalion, Face of the Mountain that serve the purpose for all 3 types of supports.

But being behind levels is having your power level brought down twofold.

Spaceman5pffOct 24, 20162 votes

I RARELY play support, but when I do, I am not 4-5 levels behind. MAYBE 2 levels. And that would be me feeling very far behind.

I roam, don't take CS, I ward and I destroy enemy vision. I usually play Thresh Annie for support. And I will repeat, I am almost never more than 2 levels behind.

Either you are blowing it way out of proportion, or you are god-awful at support.

XicashinaOct 24, 20161 votes

I apologize I should have made myself more clear I was talking about late game when I was saying 4-5 levels behind which is not blown out of proportions at all, I have found myself to be lv 13 quite commonly when my lanners start hitting 18 and the issue comes in that at that point of the game there is next to know point of me being in a lane as I am eternally roaming and warding the jungle. As such I commonly only catch up when I start taking waves upon the rest of my team hitting full build.

Spaceman5pffOct 24, 20161 votes

Gotcha. I was also talking about lategame, no need to clarify.

I have a rule i play by for lategame when it comes to warding. The way it goes is: -I think I need to put a ward somewhere: A) Am I safe going there? B) Will I be able to come to the aid of my team quickly enough during the trip?

If both A and B result in a yes, I go ward it. This keeps me close to where all of the experience is, and it keeps me from getting caught out and dying. As a result, I have vision where I need it (using I rather than we since people hardly ever look at wards other people place, with the exception of an ADC for the first 10 minutes of the game after which even they don't look anymore)

When I am playing jungle, I tend to go for more distant warding spots, since I am a more combat capable champion and can more than likely handle myself as a jungler if I run into someone.

I think too many support players live by the idea that their carries should stick with them for protection. This results in underleveled supports and dead carries.

Rather, the support should be sticking with SOMEBODY at all times, preferably a carry. Supports enable carries. Carries do not enable supports. Holding the latter point of view is a self-important mindset that is harmful to your support play. This is ESPECIALLY true for Enchanters Bard Janna Nami Soraka Sona and Protectors Braum TahmKench Taric Thresh

The only supports who can really hold their own running off alone to do vision things are high damage / mage supports Annie Karma Lulu Morgana Zyra most of whom can get quick CC out to make their escape, or have some combo of CC and speed.

XicashinaOct 24, 20161 votes

I agree with this almost entirely the only thing I have a slight issue with is the B I do believe that it is important to be near the center of the team constantly but certain warding positions only stay open for a small duration and I feel like it is far more useful to consider what the likelihood of a fight breaking out is if you are going to go more than 10 seconds away from your team rather than constantly leashing yourself to your carries.

One more point as someone who primarily plays enchanters with the occasional damage support thrown in, and the rare protector (Thresh and Taric <3, f u Braum) I find like it would be better to separate the quality of peel slightly differently.

Janna , Bard , Nami , Karma and Lulu are more the enchanters with good peal ( I would consider the last two enchanters despite there slightly higher damage stats.)

I found most damage mages ( to be fair I have next to no experience with Zyra or instead I am more comfortable on ( Annie or Lux )to be quite easy to catch out. (Although lux is weird as she can use a spell to facecheck any bushes so because of that she doesn't get caught too easily)

I then would say that the rest of the enchanters such as Soraka or Sona to have limited peel

And the protectors (I like that name haven't heard it before used to just calling them the tanky sups) are super easy to get caught out and rely more on surviving as long as they can until there team could collapse if they are caught out.

Ariel the CruelOct 23, 20164 votes

Supports have 2 keystones and a sightstone already. Now it's tome to cater to our ADC overloards some more. ;p

DarkRitualOct 23, 20163 votes

Yeah, they don't have enough mutiplicative scalings yet! THEY NEED MORE!

Irelia BotOct 23, 20164 votes

fighters don't have multiplicative scaling like marksmen do

I demand we get Atma's back Riot. With 2% of total health as AD

DarkRitualOct 23, 20161 votes

I mean, you still have the same options from masteries. I don't see a world where Atmas can exist in the same world as Cinderhulk and Nunu.

Ariel the CruelOct 24, 20162 votes

item 3748 yo.

ShadragonOct 24, 20161 votes

It's not Cinderhulk Nunu you should be scared of. It's Cinderhulk Sion and his disgusting AD ratios.

MarshbouyOct 23, 20162 votes

Does CoC just not count as a support mastery?

Bootleg GayOct 23, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Does CoC just not count as a support mastery?

I mean, I figure it works best on tanky disruptors. Alistar, Leona, or Malphite would be go to champions.

I can see this being used as a support mastery, but on specific kinds. Sona might be able you get use out of it, honestly, with the right ult.

Legacy HydralphaOct 23, 20164 votes

CoC, as I see it, definitely works best on tanky disruptors, as you said. It doesn't just have to be a support either; Nautilus, Sion, and Rek'Sai can all use the mastery well. The user doesn't need multiple forms of hard CC, just one to get the shield off.

5000000000000000Oct 23, 20163 votes

Even Ashe can get the shield. It wouldn't be useful, but she can get it.

Spaceman5pffOct 24, 20161 votes

I guess Sona could get use for it a few times a game, but Windspeakers and Thunderlords are each much better options when it comes to reliable usage, especially in lane where sona is oh so powerful.

Bootleg GayOct 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I guess Sona could get use for it a few times a game, but Windspeakers and Thunderlords are each much better options when it comes to reliable usage, especially in lane where sona is oh so powerful.

I mean, as a more defensive build.

Honestly, just realized that Diana might actually get really strong. That instant knock up and shield, combined with her actual shield, could turn her into the new Ekko. I'm not saying it's gonna be broken, but I'll let you all know, you heard it here first.

DurfainOct 23, 20162 votes

Yes it does - perhaps I should have worded it better. I meant the new intermediate (or filler) masteries that Riot is adding to the trees where there was huge opportunity to add more supportive masteries where there's already ample damage options. Instead, we get more damage options for some reason.

DarkRitualOct 23, 20162 votes

Ward vision radius increased by 2/4/6/8/10% Stealth Ward (sightstone and trinkets would be affected) limit increased by 1. Stealth Wards health increased by 1. 25% more (unshared) experience when killing wards.

These sorts of things would be pretty good ideas to start with.

ElikainOct 24, 20161 votes

Some supports could use a bit of damage, honestly. Adding more utility to the trees might be enticing for everyone to take them and i guess that depends on what type of utility we're talking about here. Adding more damage/stats/utility in our items also had a negative effect - FQC being a go to for mid laners, for example.

OdinakosOct 24, 20161 votes

Dont think so. Ap supports can opt into damage items if they snowball hard. Zyra already forgoes most of support build if she is ahead, same as brand. And they can be oppresive. You could see Annie, Morg and the likes do the same.

ElikainOct 24, 20161 votes

Zyra Morgana and Brand are a completely different class of supports that not many of the supports share. They are support mages. Which means what they offer is utility but not in a way that "supports" your team - it's just general CC.

Their mage qualities are the reason why they work as supports. They apply CC and deal high base damage, which makes enemies easier to kill. They also scale pretty well with any AP. You could go full AP with them, with the exception of Sightstone and Frost Queen's Claim and become the second mage in your team.

For example, Full AP Janna might have better supporting abilities however, she'd need to also support her spammy nature and higher damage abilities (through raw AP builds) usually take a lot of mana to maintain. Morgana, for example, only needs to his Q or R to net a kill (usually) while Janna would have to cast 3 or 4 skills to do exactly the same thing.

OdinakosOct 24, 20161 votes

Janna was the worst example you could give as she is pure defensive support with little offensive capabilities. Even so full AP janna has huge shields and decent utility ap scalings. If she had damage as well, she would be broken(according to some even more). Sona on the other hand can play as a supplement ap if she opts to (lich bane etc).

Defensive supports just cant have both good damage damage and utility, gotta chose. And most still do respectable amounts of damage if they opt into it. Not something spectacular, but still significant contribution.