Garen's Spin deals less damage than before until level 16

LegenDariusGaren··6 votes·1,926 views

New Garen: Physical Damage Per Spin: 15 / 18.8 / 22.5 / 26.3 / 30 (+ 34.5 / 35.3 / 36 / 36.8 / 37.5% AD) Old Garen: Total Physical Damage: 60 / 135 / 210 / 285 / 360 (+ 210 / 240 / 270 / 300 / 330% AD)

E gets maxed at level 9, so let's see the numbers. Assume that Garen has 200 AD. At level 9, Garen has 7 spins. New Garen: (30+.375 x 200) x 7=(30+75) x 7=735 Old Garen: 360+3.3 x 200=360+660=1020

Let's look at level 15, assume 200 AD, with 9 spins. New Garen: (30+.375 x 200) x 9=105 x 9=945 Old Garen: Same as above=1020

Level 16, 200 AD, 10 spins. New Garen: 105 x 10=1050 Old Garen: 1020

Clearly, Garen does much less damage than before. Now if the target is isolated, the damage goes up by 33%. But how often do you get your target isolated? I hardly ever get my target isolated, and they are isolated for less than 1 second.

Assume Garen gets his target isolated, and they are the villain. Assume the target has 2000 hp. Then at level 16, New Garen: (105 x 10) x 1.33+0.1 x 2000=1396.5+200=1596.5

So the maximum potential damage that Garen can unleash is 1600 damage with his spin. But realistically, he doesn't isolate the target, and instead does 105 x 10+.1 x 2000= 1250 damage to the villain.

My point is that New Garen is much weaker than old Garen until level 16. In terms of numbers, [(30+37.5%AD) x X] is always less than 360+330%AD until X equals 10, where X is the number of spins.

17 Comments

Crett5 votes

Old Garen didn't have these items item 3742 item 3053

LegenDariusGaren3 votes

I think the new items are the real problem here and not just "Garen OP, Pls Nerf". Although, his ult dealing true damage could be considered really strong.

steelblacksky1 votes

ironically steraks is the best answer for being the villain to his combo including ult. 30% max hp as a shield when ataking over x amount based on level over 8 seconds? spin is 5. its like its designed to anti combo+ult so long as someone can peel or you can wallflash out after.

what really changed was the cleaver. zeds rivens everyone else who deals physical damage with abilities can now apply the shred instead of just autoattackers. that means 10 potential stacks on up to infinite targets in range for a full spin at max rank/ticks. cleaver only stacks to 6.

and you wonder why he doesn't go sunfire anymore to try to sit in the middle of a team. cleaver and spin does it better.

dmp is just useful to fill the armor space with a situational spot of movement and damage. steraks usually not so great unless heavy burst, which it was designed for.

people just don't want to be bothered having to learn to cope with guys like him is what it really boils down to.

rG Thundrag1 votes

{quoted}

Old Garen didn't have these items item 3742 item 3053

Old garen did have item 3742 it was out for quite awhile before the juggernauting.

LegenDariusGaren5 votes

What if Garen's ultimate did only true damage with his base stats, and magic damage for the rest. For example, at level 16, 525 true damage plus 40% of the targets missing health as magic damage. This would only apply to the villain. In exchange, Garen got his old spin stats, modified to include the number of spins mechanic. For example, Old Garen did 60+75% AD per spin, and he had 6 spins. Let's keep the same total numbers, but add more spins. For example, at level 15, Garen would do (360+330%AD) / 9 = 40+36.67% AD per spin, and he would spin 9 times. This way, he still can apply the villain mechanic on his spin.

Prospector Pete2 votes

The problem isn't really his spin(while it does do a ton of damage) it's his ult that can deal up to 1500 true damage(or maybe even more).

Jefftiffy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prospector Pete,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jxlkMRzA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-21T20:45:39.383+0000)

The problem isn't really his spin(while it does do a ton of damage) it's his ult that can deal up to 1500 true damage(or maybe even more).

I would say the bigger problem is he can build damage so much easier because of his new kit. And to top it off there is the true damage because Riot doesn't know that making someone oppressive while behind is at all balanced. IDC if he is strong against some random bot laner it isn't fair for him to get an advantage against someone who worked for their advantage.

Shonjl1 votes

Dont let him get near you if you are the Villian, or omg surprise surprise, don't attack him. All Garen takes is to get slowed or stunned after he wastes his Q and he will usually not be able to reach you. If you are a squishy adc and you let him casually walk up to you, you deserve to die, simple.

Villian is a beautiful new mechanic since now unstoppable fed adcs have to actually think since Garen can and will murder them if they just afk right click which they usually could before.

LegenDariusGaren1 votes

If you built Garen with item 3035 before his rework, this was easily done. You didn't need the villain mechanic to shut down fed targets. It's actually harder to do the same thing currently pre-16.

LegenDariusGaren2 votes

The problem here is also the Death Recap. It shows the full potential of Garen's ultimate. For example, if you are the villain with 4000 HP, and then drop to 500 HP. Now Garen decides to ult you, and you are actually dealt 500 true damage. However, the Death Recap shows 525+0.4 x 3500=525+1750=2275 true damage. People freak out when they see this.

Shonjl1 votes

ITs still an irrelevant number since he will never deal that much, since even when it goes true damage, it is still a % hp execute. If a Garen uses his ult when they are half health, even as Villian, it won't kill them since the missing health part of the damage isn't high enough yet.

He could deal a million damage if the enemy is at 20%, would make about as much use as if it only hit a few hundred since by that amount, the people Garen will use his ult on already only have said few hundred hp left.

Blade of Justic2 votes

New Garen: Physical Damage Per Spin: 15 / 18.8 / 22.5 / 26.3 / 30 (+ 34.5 / 35.3 / 36 / 36.8 / 37.5% AD) Old Garen: Total Physical Damage: 60 / 135 / 210 / 285 / 360 (+ 210 / 240 / 270 / 300 / 330% AD)

Is this in a recent patch or ever since the juggernaut update?

Because holy S@#$, that's a nerf.

LegenDariusGaren2 votes

The numbers for Old Garen are from Patch 5.15 and before. The numbers for New Garen are from Patch 5.16 and after.

So it would be the juggernaut update, since the numbers haven't been changed by Riot.

Blade of Justic1 votes

{quoted}

The numbers for Old Garen are from Patch 5.15 and before. The numbers for New Garen are from Patch 5.16 and after.

So it would be the juggernaut update, since the numbers haven't been changed by Riot.

Alright, had me going there for a second.

I'm actually pretty fine with the current damage. Just as long as they don't drop it further.

MisterHealYoGirl1 votes

Did you count the 10% max health true damage it does to the villain? Because that happens before level 16, which is when you started calculating it.

LegenDariusGaren2 votes

I showed it on the level 16 case. I assumed the target has 2000 hp, so slap on 200 damage to all the numbers that don't include the true damage

MisterHealYoGirl1 votes

Just wondering. Thanks!

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