Since Doran's Shield has a unique passive for blocking dat 8 hit single damage

BeatzBoyFTW·Feb 6, 2015·34 votes·3,420 views

Let's give it's lifesteal being Unique Passive then. It's only fair for the tanky champs.

56 Comments

BastionKrossFeb 6, 201513 votes

Tanks build item 1054 Marksmen build item 1055

Which item do you think is going to get the better treatment?

B3ERFeb 6, 20157 votes

Nerf ADC's? Riot?!! HAHAHAhahahahaha...... Oooooh, that was a good joke. Thank you.

Icy AuronFeb 6, 20153 votes

In my opinion, the entirety of all three Doran's item should be unique passives. Encouraging people to get multiples of them is extremely detrimental.

Leti the YetiFeb 6, 20152 votes

item 1056 only doran item ive stacked

Champion SkinFeb 6, 20151 votes

Well actually Doran's rings are pretty good to stack as you can get 2-3 of them and then build into more damage/ap heavy items first and skip the whole mana regen item for a while at least (that is if you CS well)

Icy AuronFeb 6, 20151 votes

This is exactly my point. Please don't take what I'm about to say as an attack, it was just a perfect example of what I wanted to hit on.

Why must you be relevant at all points of the game? If I have a weak early/mid game for a godlike late game, I'm ok with, and actively encourage this. One Doran's Ring is enough to hold you over for the start of the game, and I think is a GOOD idea. No other single item does what it can do, and it gets the game started faster. Getting a second one, however, is slowing you down from getting a base item. Sure, you're ahead for the next few minutes, but once you fall off, you fall off hard (assuming this small boost to your early game starts the snowballing process hard). It encourages people to focus WAY too much on the early game, which is bad for the game, imo.

Sir ArmaMalumFeb 6, 20152 votes

We'd rewind back to Season 3, where people stacked 3 or 4 dorans before making any other purchase and the game didn't actually 'start' until 10 minutes in because everyone would just play safe and do the farm game. As much as I liked Season 3's balance compared to now, this is a part of it I won't miss.

junglerboy16Feb 6, 20158 votes

kind of like how people stack 3 or so item 1055 right now...

BallisticMouseFeb 6, 20152 votes

To be fair only people who fall behind buy a 2nd or 3rd Doran's Blade but the fact that it does happen is still there...

junglerboy16Feb 6, 20153 votes

I actually tend to see it in the opposite situation, where somebody gets ahead, and then uses the extreme efficiency of the item so that they can snowball really hard through the mid game and crush the enemy out before late game roles around and the early gold investment catches up on them.

qetzelFeb 6, 20151 votes

I think that it should be noted that, if behind, building two or three Shields is not a good plan.

Magma Lux MidFeb 7, 20151 votes

True, but shield and 2 blades on bruisers can be helpful if behind. Though it would be better for shield + sunfire/randuins vs AD, hexdrinker/cowl vs AP.

FyzzexFeb 6, 20153 votes

I personally like going double dorans on champs that need time to scale to help with their early game(ie. jax) since it also gives me some nice sustain and tank stats

TsundayFeb 6, 20151 votes

No there are 2 reasons to go double dorans:

A) you're behind

B) you're cocky enough to believe that by building a second dorans you will wreck your lane and make up for that money in kills afterwards.

Lucian for example can build this way in both cases.

Champion SkinFeb 6, 20151 votes

Well if you have the inventory space for it and know that you can hold on to that doran's blade for quite some time while building your other items it will likely be worth the extra sustain and fighting power as it will likely at least enable you to get some more CS because of the extra sustain and AD

Sir ArmaMalumFeb 6, 20151 votes

If you fall behind yes, but S3 had people stacking Dorans even if they were ahead

junglerboy16Feb 6, 20153 votes

I only see people who are snowballing stack Dorans. If behind, it doesn't really help too much, but if ahead, the sheer gold efficiency of the stats makes you snowball like a maniac.

Sir ArmaMalumFeb 6, 20153 votes

Personally I rarely if ever see that, because while yes Dorans is gold efficient (as that is their shtick) there are enough low gold build items like Vamp Scepter and Pickaxe that can take priority.

Granted there are different factors that can contribute to that like average Jungler pressure (as far as ganks go) and popular lane sustain champs that affect how often someone goes back, so I can definitely say experiences can differ easily. As far as my experience goes however, most lanes do not go back often, so getting that pre-emptive boost means much less.

junglerboy16Feb 6, 20154 votes

Yeah, usually I see it on super snowball type champs like Jax Fiora Rengar Riven etc. It doesn't work all the time and isn't game breaking, but I almost never see somebody who is behind buy more because unless it is enough to slingshot past their weakness, it sets them further behind.

PatMcGroynFeb 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I only see people who are snowballing stack Dorans. If behind, it doesn't really help too much, but if ahead, the sheer gold efficiency of the stats makes you snowball like a maniac.

I generally see the opposite, when people die early in bot lane and don't have money for a Pickaxe, I generally see the 2'nd Dorans pickup.

Sailor MintFeb 6, 20152 votes

If you're behind as an ADC you buy a second Doran's Blade. If you're behind as a tanky melee, you buy a tier 1 defensive item (Cloth / Ruby Crystal / Mantle) and use it on an item in your core build.

Since Doran's Shield Block is applied before Armor and %Reduction, a second Doran's Shield would always be worse than a Cloth Armor.

RogueWillFeb 6, 20152 votes

why not just make so you can only build a doran item (similar to how the support gold generator items work). It supposed to be an started item afterall.

marshal the pyroFeb 6, 20153 votes

{quoted}

why not just make so you can only build a doran item (similar to how the support gold generator items work). It supposed to be an started item afterall.

because riot seems to be fine with doran's stacking because in aram it is usually the recommended start.

RogueWillFeb 6, 20152 votes

the make an aram version of it that can be stacked. We have similar version of other itmes for dominion and twisted treeline. Makign one for aram isn't that hard considering it has a few items that only works on aram already.

RisurinFeb 7, 20152 votes

1st thats the point. dblades are supposed to be stackable... thats literally was some suggested early game buy you could see when they changed BT and made IE first the go-to.

2nd negating 8 damage/ hit is a lot more impactful early game then 3% lifesteal.... early game an ADC will have ~85AD with dblade a tank will have ~40armor 40 armor is about 30% physical damage reduction.

85-8 -30% is 53.9 damage. ~~-8 from doran~~ -4 from masteries =49.9

3% lifesteal off 49.9 damage = 1.497 hp healed per hit

so 12 damage blocked for every 1.497 hp heald, and the shield also gives +6hp/5

with 1 dshield and masteries you arent too far from blocking ~9x more damage then a single dblade will heal for in this situation. the shield doesnt even give any resistance aside from the block, so you would have more effective hp with buying cloth armor then an additional shield, whereas getting more dblades, will helping for the early game, delay the completition of stronger items.

EDIT : Math if mastery work before mitigation, roughtly similar results (ty to GunbladeKnight)

Doran's shield, and I think the masteries as well, block damage before armor. So (85-12)*.7 = 51.1 damage per auto. 3% lifesteal on that is about 1.5, so roughly the same.

Magma Lux MidFeb 7, 20151 votes

Doran's shield, and I think the masteries as well, block damage before armor. So (85-12)*.7 = 51.1 damage per auto. 3% lifesteal on that is about 1.5, so roughly the same.

RisurinFeb 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Doran's shield, and I think the masteries as well, block damage before armor. So (85-12)*.7 = 51.1 damage per auto. 3% lifesteal on that is about 1.5, so roughly the same.

re-reading the mastery description, it sound like this is a possibility, but i would like some reliable source about this. my bad on shield. but as you said, results are pretty close, so my point stand.

el PepE hanDs Feb 6, 20151 votes

It would be kinda retarded if you could stack them

Knight DevoutFeb 6, 20156 votes

Back in season 4 you could stack Doran like no tomorrow. I remember someone in high elo playing ADC Rengar, with 4 Doran's he killed a Twitch with a completed Botrk just due to how stat efficient 4 dorans were.

AetherKingdomFeb 6, 20151 votes

I remember than Video. He also had a Janna shielding him for like + 30 AD .

BallisticMouseFeb 6, 20151 votes

The Twitch or the Rengar?

AetherKingdomFeb 6, 20151 votes

The Rengar

1st HanarSpectreFeb 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Devout,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juhctqtr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-02-06T13:18:04.409+0000)

Back in season 4 you could stack Doran like no tomorrow. I remember someone in high elo playing ADC Rengar, with 4 Doran's he killed a Twitch with a completed Botrk just due to how stat efficient 4 dorans were.

That has nothing to do with dorans, That's just Rengar, a high burst champion killing the second squishiest unit in the game.

Knight DevoutFeb 7, 20151 votes

quite a bit health, quite a bit of AD, and 20 health on hit. It would have been effective on any champion able to autoattack.

Magma Lux MidFeb 7, 20151 votes

Ryan Choi? I thought it was 4 doran's + vamp scepter full build.

Jesus is SaviorFeb 6, 20151 votes

Except the reason Riot even made the change from flat lifesteal to % lifesteal is so people could stack dorans and not need to rush a vamp scepter.

AetherKingdomFeb 6, 20152 votes

Actually, stacking dorans is less efficient now

Jesus is SaviorFeb 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually, stacking dorans is less efficient now

early-game nerf, late-game buff

AetherKingdomFeb 7, 20151 votes

And dorans are totally kept until late game.

Magma Lux MidFeb 7, 20151 votes

Usually they're kept until you have 5 items, or you can sell one to buy a BF sword mid-late game or complete your BT.

Jesus is SaviorFeb 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And dorans are totally kept until late game.

You can go item 1055 -> -> item 3031 -> item 3046 -> item 3035 if you want to (with item 3006 thrown in whenever), leaving item 3072 as one of your last items.

Riot made the change so people can do stuff like that, instead of rushing item 1053 every game and then leaving it in their inventory forever.

Magma Lux MidFeb 7, 20151 votes

If I'm behind, I'll usually run double doran's vamp scepter and then go into IE when I can farm up.

theragingnerdFeb 7, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=UdyrWwYi Jg ONLY,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juhctqtr,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-02-06T17:47:21.757+0000)

Except the reason Riot even made the change from flat lifesteal to % lifesteal is so people could stack dorans and not need to rush a vamp scepter.

it was a nerf

bradFeb 6, 20151 votes

if dorans shield wasnt unique it would be fucking broken

imagine 32 damage block, 400 hp, and however much regen, for like 1600 gold

Magma Lux MidFeb 7, 20152 votes

And then they still do ~200 damage per attack because you're not stacking any resistances to help that hp. If they could stack, 2 would be good for the early game, but then you'd want to build actual items after that.

bradFeb 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And then they still do ~200 damage per attack because you're not stacking any resistances to help that hp. If they could stack, 2 would be good for the early game, but then you'd want to build actual items after that.

you're literally a dumbass

im not talking about stacking dorans shields 40 minutes into the game, the same way the op isnt talking about stacking dorans blades 40 minutes into the game

Magma Lux MidFeb 7, 20151 votes

Actually, I'm talking about 10 minutes into the game. At 40 minutes into the game, they'll do ~500 per attack, 1250 per crit if you stacked those doran's. That's why you usually only do 2, maybe 3 doran's if you're desperate.

bradFeb 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually, I'm talking about 10 minutes into the game. At 40 minutes into the game, they'll do ~500 per attack, 1250 per crit if you stacked those doran's. That's why you usually only do 2, maybe 3 doran's if you're desperate.

idk if u have ever played league but the "tanky champs" that the op is talking about usually dont do 200 damage per auto attack at 10 minutes in, nor do they crit for 1250 at 40 minutes into the game

Miku Lv99Feb 7, 20151 votes

No. Doran's blades shouldn't be nerfed. They already suck bad enough at scaling into endgame. ADCs need an item like it they can get more of when they're losing lane too hard. Would you rather your ADC just keep feeding the entire rest of the laning phase when he gets behind?

theragingnerdFeb 7, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miku Lv99,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juhctqtr,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-02-07T00:25:05.817+0000)

No. Doran's blades shouldn't be nerfed. They already suck bad enough at scaling into endgame. ADCs need an item like it they can get more of when they're losing lane too hard. Would you rather your ADC just keep feeding the entire rest of the laning phase when he gets behind?

well then all the bad players wouldn't play adc