Unpopular Opinion: Simple Kits Cause More Imbalance Than Overloaded Kits

Frosted Tips·Aug 9, 2018·13 votes·2,212 views

Simple kits cause so much change purely because they can abuse things because they are stat checking other champions. These cause items and runes to be balanced manly towards the point that simple champions can't abuse them. Like remember when devourer existed and how all simple champions that abused got the item nerfed and eventual removed from the game. Some champions include, Master Yi, Pre-Rework Warwick, and Xin Zhao before his minor update.

Loaded kits rarely lead to item and rune nerfs mainly just champion nerfs which IMO is better to do than to consistently change both and effecting the whole game that much more.

45 Comments

Critmaster GarenAug 9, 201813 votes

i call bullshit on this.

champions with complex or overloaded kits often entirely overtake lanes and dictate who is even playable anymore.

champions like Gnar Camille Chogath Gangplank have in the past entirely decided who is even allowed to play top lane. you could either pick these champions, someone of the 3 champions who directly counter them, or fuck off.

champions like Azir Zed Ryze have done the same in mid lane

remember how Thresh set a new baseline of what supports have to be able to do to compete with him when he was released?

both, champions with simple kits and champions with complex kits can be either healthy or unhealthy.

HaIlMonitorAug 9, 20182 votes

He does have a point though with items. I dont rembember a time an item got nerfed because of any of those champs you listed. But Lucian, Ezreal, and MF have gotten items from every class nerfed except maybe tank items at one point or another.

Killer of Night9Aug 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

He does have a point though with items. I dont rembember a time an item got nerfed because of any of those champs you listed. But Lucian, Ezreal, and MF have gotten items from every class nerfed except maybe tank items at one point or another.

item 3022 Gnar

Frosted TipsAug 9, 20183 votes

Chogath complex???

Camille After little bit of time she is now extremely well balanced same goes for Gangplank .

Azir IMO is pretty simple.

Ryze sure fine he is relatively complex and unhealthy, but even when he was super simple he wasn't healthy. The idea of machine gun mage doesn't work yet Riot keeps trying to push it.

Thresh is actually what made people want to play support. He offers a lot and has been nerfed over the years for that. The reason you may seem him as breaking the game is because he can be played with nearly any comp because he is so versatile. He is also super fun to play and that causes his playrate to be high. He rarely has felt obsurb because he requires a lot of knowledge and desicion making.

Janna is a perfect example of what's wrong with oversimplification she is so good at one thing she is always a good pick. She has been the cause of so many other supports rise and falls because no one can do what she does without even having to think that they have to be so overturned to be better than her. She is strong when all other similar support are weak and she is the strongest when they ate strong.

Zoe would have been a good example for a loaded kit that causes imbalance. But then again she shouldn't have ever have been made.

r43b1llAug 9, 20181 votes

Wdym? GP abuses the ever living fuck out of grasp.

Frosted TipsAug 9, 20181 votes

I mean yeah if you just sit back and don't play aggressive on him like yeah he can abuse stuff being a passive laner is the only way GP can abuse anything.

Void KaijuAug 9, 20182 votes

Did you just list chogath, one of the simplest kits in the game, as an overloaded kit? Also you missed renekton, who was referred to by some people as the gatekeeper for toplane, in your list of top meta controlling champs. (And don't tell me he doesn't count as overloaded when you put chogaht up there.)

When Cho defined the meta it wasn't because he was overloaded or complex. It was because he was overtuned. He doesn't do much and if the numbers on what few things he does are too high he is op. It's the same with to recently, udyr controlling the jungle meta in previous seasons, etc.

Critmaster GarenAug 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Did you just list chogath, one of the simplest kits in the game, as an overloaded kit?

hes a tank juggernaut. thats a retarded combo that shouldnt exist.

compex? no. overloaded? yes.

Void KaijuAug 10, 20181 votes

You're....a garen main. Another juggernaut who can get absurdly tanky and is far more mobile and hard to lock down.

The idea that a combo of traits shouldn't exist restricts the potential for fun and interesting champions to exist in the game.

I like Cho. I will admit that he needs work to improve his kit because the update that gave him unlimited ult stacks (a good change) also made him too swingy in terms of how powerful he is when ahead, and how weak when behind. I liked when he was a weird mage bruiser guy who got roa and some tank items.

But he also has a lot that people can do to mitigate or entirely avoid his damage, and he becomes such a big target when ahead that if he dodges all your cc to get on you or your carry then it's on you and your team for not being able to land a spell on something wider than a turret. You haven't actually given any evidence as to your claim.

Let me counter your point with an equally undefended one: garen is a tank juggernaut who punishes you for trying to get a lead by killing his allies.That shouldn't exist.

Critmaster GarenAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Let me counter your point with an equally undefended one: garen is a tank juggernaut who punishes you for trying to get a lead by killing his allies.That shouldn't exist.

when im talking about cho as a tank juggernaut, im talking about a tank with aoe cc and disruption of one, with juggernaut base damage.

the main factor that distinguishes those two classes is utility vs. damage. a tank is a beefy initiator and disruptor who is loaded with aoe cc to peel for allies and/or engage fights. a juggernaut is a slow but beefy carry who doesnt bring a lot of utility to the game, but has high kill pressure in return.

its basically the difference between what Mordekaiser is right now, and what Chogath was before his buffs.

the addition of scaling % health damage to chogath e is what ticked me off. because it completely breaks the rules of both classes to just give him the best of everything. i never had an issue with his ultimate, personally.

and no, garen isnt comparable to that mistake. because garen still remains in his class restriction of juggernauts. hes a beefy damage dealer with his only "mobility" a slight movement speed buff, which is infact still less than Shyvana w or Udyr e. even amongst juggernauts hes not exceptionally mobile. he doesnt have aoe knockups, aoe silences and aoe slows in one kit, while still enjoying the head on melee power of a juggernaut at the same time.

the problems im having with cho is that they literally just slapped juggernaut base damage onto a a tank, instead of improving the reliability of his cc and making him a better tank.

thats why he is overloaded. hes like a version of Mordekaiser with an aoe knockup, aoe silence and spamable aoe slow.

Void KaijuAug 10, 20181 votes

Part of why they haven't done that is because Cho has always had more of a weird specialist playstyle that falls halfway between tank and ap juggernaut. They wanted to conserve that playstyle. He doesn't fit cleanly into any "class" and I don't necessarily think he should. He wants to be a big, bulky disruptor with some consistent damage after he get in.

I do think his e is too strong. It's first max in pretty much every single situation due to the amount of damage it provides. Part of that is because his other two spells have decent baseline effectiveness and simply cost too much for him to max, because overuse of them runs him totally oom.

Cho'Gath doesn't really bring much utility. He has an easily avoided knockup (also his only form of engage aside from righteous glory, which imo is a problem item in its own right) and then a very reliable silence (the latter is probably his most effective tool). His kit is really hard to touch because it does so little that a powershift will just need to make one of his other aspects too strong (like where should the power from his e go? His passive sustain? )

I think you're also really underestimating the damage tanks are packing on average. A sej or maokai has enough up front pain to take a squishy out of the fight and far more reliable engage to hold a bigger target down while their team beats them down. Cho doesn't do that nearly as well, and that's why the power is more in his personal damage when he gets on somebody.

I agree Cho is a mess (hell, I've been working on a vgu for him if you look at my post history. His current kit is super hard to balance due to how few ways there are to touch it) but I think you're being a little too harsh in your judgement

Critmaster GarenAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Part of why they haven't done that is because Cho has always had more of a weird specialist playstyle that falls halfway between tank and ap juggernaut. They wanted to conserve that playstyle. He doesn't fit cleanly into any "class" and I don't necessarily think he should. He wants to be a big, bulky disruptor with some consistent damage after he get in.

I do think his e is too strong. It's first max in pretty much every single situation due to the amount of damage it provides. Part of that is because his other two spells have decent baseline effectiveness and simply cost too much for him to max, because overuse of them runs him totally oom.

Cho'Gath doesn't really bring much utility. He has an easily avoided knockup (also his only form of engage aside from righteous glory, which imo is a problem item in its own right) and then a very reliable silence (the latter is probably his most effective tool). His kit is really hard to touch because it does so little that a powershift will just need to make one of his other aspects too strong (like where should the power from his e go? His passive sustain? )

I think you're also really underestimating the damage tanks are packing on average. A sej or maokai has enough up front pain to take a squishy out of the fight and far more reliable engage to hold a bigger target down while their team beats them down. Cho doesn't do that nearly as well, and that's why the power is more in his personal damage when he gets on somebody.

I agree Cho is a mess (hell, I've been working on a vgu for him if you look at my post history. His current kit is super hard to balance due to how few ways there are to touch it) but I think you're being a little too harsh in your judgement

youre saying chogath doesnt bring a lot of utility, but compare him to Sion who falls into the definition of a vaguard.

sion doesnt have much more than an easily dodgable knockup either, and a stun on his ult.

chos kit in utility is as strong as that of sion who is generally regarded as one of riots best reworks and one of the most fairly designed champions in this game.

but on top of that, cho also brings unproportionally high base damage.

the mistake riot made was to pack the % damage onto his e, instead of being content with adding the slow and maybe putting the e on a shorter cooldown, to make cho a better tank.

the idea of giving a champion the utility of a full tank kit and giving him juggernaut base damage at the same time is quite frankly insane.

Void KaijuAug 10, 20182 votes

Sion! I love playing him. But he's got far more impactful lockdown than chogath, with. Plenty of damage to his name, to boot. A Sion who lands his e will get the knockup on the slowed target almost certainly. With his ultimate he can easily lock down a single target for 4ish seconds using his basic rotation, and stick to them long enough to tag them again. I played him recently, got ahead, and got so tanky that I survived log enough to engage a fight with my ult THEN ult again before I died. I locked down the enemy engage for so long that my team had killed their backline and turned on them shortly thereafter. They had a shyvana and a Xin. As chogath I would have had no hope of beating the two of them unless j was absurdly ahead due to not being able to prevent them from sticking to me with my q alone. I wouldn't have been able to protect my backline from them either. They could not kite my Sion engage. They could not safely dive my backline as long as I was alive. Sion does bring a lot of cc to the table that Cho does not.

Their utility is in no way equivalent. If you went and took some time to play both of them into a number of matchups you will quickly see where cho'gaths shortcomings lie. In the ADC is dead meta he was strong because kiting and range were his natural counters, and melees hate getting botrk for some reason (that item destroys him since he likes to stack health for more ult damage) They don't bring the same things to the table, and they don't have the same weaknesses, aside from the general weaknesses of bulky champs. Sion can mitigate a HUGE amount of damage with his w while demanding attention because if you don't cc his q in a fight he will fuck your team up. Cho can't mitigate damage to himself. He relies solely on his huge health pool and on hopefully killing his target before that health pool is burnt out. It does make him a stat check though ecause of people simply don't have enough damage he will plow through them.

I dont really think the e damage is an issue. An adaptive helm will cut that heavily and the Mr it grants reduces all the damage in his kit except his ult. It only reaches problem levels when he's got over 10 stacks, which won't be till pretty late and if he's ahead and rotating on the map properly.

Meep ManAug 9, 20181 votes

I'd say I'd prefer a complex champion to be OP than a simple champion though.

Azir is OP? He at least leaves you room to play around him a little bit, even if he is strong when he executes his kit perfectly, which skilled players can consistently do.

Garen is OP? Every scenario is going to play out the exact same way and no matter what you do, unless you hard counter him, he is going to outstat and kill you.

Critmaster GarenAug 9, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Ol Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ju0MZFdd,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2018-08-09T23:27:23.112+0000)

I'd say I'd prefer a complex champion to be OP than a simple champion though.

is OP? He at least leaves you room to play around him a little bit, even if he is strong when he executes his kit perfectly, which skilled players can consistently do.

is OP? Every scenario is going to play out the exact same way and no matter what you do, unless you hard counter him, he is going to outstat and kill you.

after this comment, i kindof had to look up your account and your rank. and now it doesnt surprise me.

no point in arguing with you. i could try and explain it to you, but you probably wouldnt udnerstand anyway, since youre playing an entirely different game down there.

Meep ManAug 9, 20181 votes

Ah, the casual elitist. Yeah, there's nothing either of us will gain from this discussion. You're "big brain" would truly be too much for me to understand. A truly real life Eldritch God to a mere mortal such as I.

Critmaster GarenAug 9, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Ol Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ju0MZFdd,comment-id=0001000300000000,timestamp=2018-08-09T23:31:38.251+0000)

Ah, the casual elitist.

or just people who have played enough and learned enough about the game to reach higher divisions.

people who are sitting in lower divisions are sitting there because they have spent less time learning about the game, champions and mechanics than people who already made it to higher divisions.

maybe at least youll take this much from this argument.

Meep ManAug 9, 20181 votes

I've been playing for 5 years now haha. Maybe there are players who would rather play with their friends and play more casual strategies with them yes? I don't exactly spam Ranked.

However, you're dismissal of my ability to understand the game is pretty easily a sign of a... casual elitist. Plus, I mean, it's clear you're upset I insulted your 1-Trick.

Critmaster GarenAug 9, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Ol Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ju0MZFdd,comment-id=000100030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-09T23:39:47.037+0000)

I've been playing for 5 years now haha. Maybe there are players who would rather play with their friends and play more casual strategies with them yes? I don't exactly spam Ranked.

However, you're dismissal of my ability to understand the game is pretty easily a sign of a... casual elitist. Plus, I mean, it's clear you're upset I insulted your 1-Trick.

5 years and you didnt make it out of silver 5. that doesnt do you any credit.

also, if youre playing casual, then what makes you qualified to have an opinion about game balance and how competitive champions are.

like there are so many silver and gold "experts" on these forums who know whats best for the game, its incredible.

Meep ManAug 9, 20181 votes

Why is your account Level 12? Are you smurfing to come down here to show us silvers how to play?

Critmaster GarenAug 9, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Ol Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ju0MZFdd,comment-id=00010003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-09T23:44:39.893+0000)

Why is your account Level 12?

because its a smurph that i had for 7 years.

Meep ManAug 9, 20181 votes

What's your real account then?

Critmaster GarenAug 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Ol Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ju0MZFdd,comment-id=0001000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-09T23:46:01.734+0000)

What's your real account then?

nope. not going to tell people so they start anoying me on my actual account.

if thats frustrating to you, fine. but you wouldnt have any guarantee that id link you my actual account anyways.

i made it past plat a couple seasons ago. thats what im going to tell you.

Meep ManAug 9, 20183 votes

Pfft, so lets tally this all up here.

Looks at someone else's account to see their rank and says they are beneath them
Posts on a Smurf account on the forums instead of his main because "reasons"
Refuses to give his main account when requested, but just tells someone to trust that they are a high up rank
Is clearly a 1-Trick just defending their main

Yeah, I think you're just a troll. Looking at your post history only further makes me think this. Probably have been baited this whole time. Good day sir.

NemeBroAug 10, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ju0MZFdd,comment-id=00010003000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-09T23:47:46.997+0000)

nope. not going to tell people so they start anoying me on my actual account.

If you are too cowardly to post your real account don't rank shame people.

This is non-negotiable my friend.

Meep ManAug 10, 20182 votes

Im pretty certain he's a troll and I've been hooked my friend.

Critmaster GarenAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

If you are too cowardly to post your real account don't rank shame people.

This is non-negotiable my friend.

because apparantly its too difficult to accept that there are 6 entire leagues of play above the one that hes playing at, and that just MAYBE he never actually saw either an azir or a garen played to their full potential, nor people playing against these champions to their best capability to make the comparison he made.

heck, he even said that hes playing the game only casual and non competitive and still leaned far enough out of the window to make an opinionated post about champion balance and game balance.

if you come right out and say azir isnt a mechanically complex champion and doesnt have a lot of play making tools, then im going to rank shame you, because you dont know shit about what youre talking about.

because he has probably never seen what an azir can do when the champion is meta, since back then his impact on low mmr games was small, while he owned every game above plat.

NemeBroAug 10, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ju0MZFdd,comment-id=0001000300000000000000000000000000000000000000010001,timestamp=2018-08-10T00:42:02.433+0000)

a garen played to their full potential

lol

Meep ManAug 10, 20181 votes

As if one can't just watch any video online to see that, or any LCS game from back then. And sorry for voicing my opinion on the matter, next time I'll just say nothing.

Critmaster GarenAug 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Ol Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ju0MZFdd,comment-id=0001000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-09T23:46:01.734+0000)

What's your real account then?

and i guess since im already locked into this discussion, your statement was entirely the opposite of reality.

easy and straight forward champions like Garen tend to give you a lot of counterplay even when theyre strong. thats why garen never had any success in competitive play in his entire existence. even in season 5 after the juggernaut rework where he was stronger than currently, he completely failed the one or two games he was picked in competitive play and at higher ratings in solo que.

champions like Azir who, yes does have complex mechanics (shurmia shuffle) with a lot of situational utility, tend to crowd out all other champions in their lanes when theyre meta, exactly because they have a lot of tools to outplay their opponents, while giving them almost nothing to play around.

Meep ManAug 10, 20183 votes

My statement wasn't false. I said there was nothing to gain from this discussion, which hasn't been false.

I think you just ignored my statement about Garen how if you don't counter him already, it always turns out the same way. There's pretty rarely a game where Garen either gets his way or absolutely DOES NOT get his way.

Rıots Bad ClientAug 9, 20183 votes

I'd like overloaded Items with simple kits rather overloaded Kits with Simple Items.

iPooUnicornsAug 9, 20182 votes

Agreed.

It's the reason why Tristana is either dogshit or OP depending on how strong right clicking is in the meta.

ModKnightsKemplarAug 9, 20181 votes

Loaded kits (I'm gonna avoid calling them overloaded here cause it seems like the point of your post is that they aren't actually overloaded) provide more balance levers. I'll at least admit to that.

I don't know if I think either one has more or less potential to break items, but some of the early champions were conceived when Riot really didn't have any idea how to make a balanced MOBA. There may be some correlation there, as a result, that has nothing to do with complexity of the kit.

ModThe DjinnAug 9, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Loaded kits (I'm gonna avoid calling them overloaded here cause it seems like the point of your post is that they aren't actually overloaded) provide more balance levers. I'll at least admit to that.

I'll add that simple kits are often harder to make functional across a wider range of player skill. It's easy for a simple kit to end up either incredibly overpowered in lower skill games or incredibly weak in higher skill games.

I think the "item breaking" effect also comes more from the fact that when an item is good enough to make a simple, easy-to-master kit viable, it feels oppressive (Guinsoo's Aatrox, Devourer Yi/Udyr, etc) because there isn't a lot of room for out-plays and you end up stat-checked. So while I'm skeptical that they cause more items to break, I do think that when they DO cause items to break it is more easily felt across every skill tier.

Frosted TipsAug 9, 20181 votes

You are right I should switch it to loaded and will

Linna ExcelAug 9, 20182 votes

Simplier kits have a higher skill floor (meaning people with minimum skill can do well on them) whereas very complex kits have a very low skill floor (a newbie on them is going to do terrible). I'd argue that they are both hard to balance across a range of player skills. Simple kits make it hard to express skill while complex kits that require you to main the champ are very hard to get right for unskilled players.

MalakAug 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ju0MZFdd,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-09T23:01:04.294+0000)

Simplier kits have a higher skill floor (meaning people with minimum skill can do well on them) whereas very complex kits have a very low skill floor (a newbie on them is going to do terrible). I'd argue that they are both hard to balance across a range of player skills. Simple kits make it hard to express skill while complex kits that require you to main the champ are very hard to get right for unskilled players.

You mean the other way around. High floor - requires skill to even play, low floor - easy to get into

Linna ExcelAug 9, 20181 votes

No, if you think about it, this is the correct interpretation. The floor of a skill is how bad you can be with a champ. It's the performance of someone with the least amount of skill. On an easy champ you are going to do better than you are with a hard champ. So the floor of the easy champ is higher because someone without skill will do better on that champ.

Since it's easier for someone without skill to do well on Soraka than it is LeeSin , Soraka has the higher skill floor. She'll bottom out in a better place than Lee Sin.

MalakAug 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ju0MZFdd,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-09T23:50:27.767+0000)

No, if you think about it, this is the correct interpretation. The floor of a skill is how bad you can be with a champ. It's the performance of someone with the least amount of skill. On an easy champ you are going to do better than you are with a hard champ. So the floor of the easy champ is higher because someone without skill will do better on that champ.

Since it's easier for someone without skill to do well on than it is , Soraka has the higher skill floor. She'll bottom out in a better place than Lee Sin.

nice interpretation but that's not the conventional meaning. High skill floor means you have to climb to that "high spot" before you even start (start at the floor)

LankPantsAug 10, 20181 votes

I'll add that simple kits are often harder to make functional across a wider range of player skill. It's easy for a simple kit to end up either incredibly overpowered in lower skill games or incredibly weak in higher skill games.

You have this completely the wrong way around. Complex kits like Ryze and Azir are too abusable by top level players and end up gimped because of it. These are the hardest champs to balance. Sure, an extreme example like Garen isn't good in high level play (talking mostly about D+ here, don't really give a flying fuck about pro balance), but he usually comes of at least usable. If you're not an amazing play Azir is completely inaccessible.

Even the simplest champions in the game like Garen are usable from Bronze 5 up to probably around Diamond 3, or for around 99.5% of players. Azir comparatively is usable only in a range of around Pro-Plat 3, so for less than 20% of players. I don't know how you could even attempt to argue that this is more usable across a wider skill range.

murderessAug 9, 20181 votes

Agreed, especially for toplane. They tend to have really toxic playstyles when strong. Just think of any tank champion when they were top 3 - they all were super tanky so that they could soak damage while also being able to shove in any given matchup. Whether it's Nautilus, Maokai, Cho'Gath, Ornn, Sion - the way they play laningphase is always the same: shove the wave with their skills (while also hitting the opponent when possible) while sustaining/shielding any incoming damage. That way they have lane priority and are decently safe from ganks. I'd much rather get outplayed by a Fiora who actually has to control the wave to get me to move up and then outplay and kill me.

deadlychuckAug 9, 20181 votes

No the existence of both cause imbalance problems, because they can't physically co-exist together.

Which if the original game was full of simple kits that required strategy and skill to master, but riot now wants to have a game full of complicated kits which require timing and conformity to master.

The problem is that they can't balance it between both, but their core audience overwhelmingly didn't start playing for the new designs. Basically their best option is to split the community between two games/game modes that are designed both ways.

The easiest way to demonstrate this incapability is the difference between statistical mitigation and numerical mitigation. If a mechanic gives you an average of 30% chance to avoid a spell completely, compared to a champion that has a purely 30% damage reduction, then while on paper two players of equal skill should end up having the same amount of damage mitigation, it's actually unlikely that it will play out that way in any particular instance. Not to mention the fact that avoidance inherently avoids the secondary effects as well, making even a statistically equal mitigation better for the avoidance.

Now, that can be a little bit hard to follow, so consider this example instead. Say that fizz can dodge 50% of abilities with his troll pole, if they were to convert the ability into damage reduction instead of avoidance, then while a 50% damage reduction would blatantly be weaker than statistically 50% dodge, what value would need to be set?

This isn't the only game, that has this problem, yet no dev seems to have addressed this problem with game design. *shrug*

The Goodest BoyAug 10, 20181 votes

hello sir! I had some opinions on this post I wanted to share, but the comment got a bit long, so I made a thread instead! You don't have to read it by any means but it was inspired by your comments and thoughts, so I thought you might be interested.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jjNxr5oc-how-do-champions-abuse-items-discussion-welcome

Have a nice day