I'm only here to say the hard things...

GigglesO·Apr 21, 2018·9 votes·6,649 views

We need defense to come back for the melee classes that aren't tanks.

Noone wants to admit it, but thats the only way I see this game panning out.

36 Comments

Shukr4nApr 21, 20184 votes

trinity is not a defense item.

non tank melee u mean bruisers or fighters? give them damage and tankiness and game is done

GigglesOApr 21, 20181 votes

You know what else isn't actually defense?

item 3053 item 3071

You know the items you see all the tanky champs have.

We need actual defense, without offence attached.

heroikcApr 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

You know what else isn't actually defense?

You know the items you see all the tanky champs have.

We need actual defense, without offence attached.

That's assuming the tanks aren't in such a haze they think they're the carries.

GigglesOApr 21, 20181 votes

no, those guys build "tank items" item 3001 item 3025

MelledoneusApr 22, 20181 votes

Shen can't and does not build either of those items, and he's a tank.

At least, they say he is.

y0r1ckApr 22, 20181 votes

He gets titanic hydra and or sunfire. It's similar, tanky items that provide extra aoe damage.

MelledoneusApr 22, 20182 votes

He's a duelist. He kind of has to build those items to stay relevant.

y0r1ckApr 22, 20181 votes

No. He gets those because he has no wave clear and needs to split push.

MelledoneusApr 22, 20181 votes

That too. But you get those even if you're not split pushing because what Shen loses out on CC he makes up for in damage.

y0r1ckApr 22, 20182 votes

What kind of shen doesn't split push...?

Support. And support shen sure as hell doesn't get those.

And if you're so far behind that you can't split push, you're better off going with a support build anyways.

Hope that helps you play shen.

MelledoneusApr 22, 20181 votes

Well, the idea is that you always want to be split pushing when you can, but sometimes your team needs you to stay around and prevent engages.

Oftentimes you need a better tank in that scenario, but ranked at my elo can be tricky in that people don't think about team comps as much.

AirKingNeoApr 22, 20183 votes

Defense by nerfing damage and nerfing full tanks. Bruisers shouldn't die in 3 seconds to an ADC because LDR is balanced around tanks despite bruisers being health stackers who don't build armor. Conqueror shouldn't be balaned around tank killing (hence why no Cleaver users are meta, Fiora builds Trinity now).

JbelsApr 21, 20182 votes

It sounds like you're asking for defensive items that aren't offensive in any way. Buuut...don't we already have armor and mr items?What's stopping bruisers from building them? Last time I checked, that's exactly what they build after their damage items are online

420NoScopeTeemoApr 21, 20184 votes

The problem as I see it is that defensive items does not make you durable. Alot of melee champions die withing 1 second. And another problem is that even if people buy 4 defensive items they can still almost oneshot stuff. If you want to build tanky you should be tanky but dont deal alot of damage. We want the feeling of smacking things alot without one hit killing or getting killed withing 1 sec.

JbelsApr 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The problem as I see it is that defensive items does not make you durable. Alot of melee champions die withing 1 second. And another problem is that even if people buy 4 defensive items they can still almost oneshot stuff. If you want to build tanky you should be tanky but dont deal alot of damage. We want the feeling of smacking things alot without one hit killing or getting killed withing 1 sec.

Buffing their defenses is not the right move here. Nerfing the damage that marksman do is the right move. Mages are generally supposed to chunk melees, and they do. The problem is they never run out of mana, but that problem looks like it will be addressed during the midseason, and from what I understand, the goal that Riot's team is currently on is to make ADCs do about the same or less damage to tanks, and much less damage to squishier targets that are supposed to be countering them

420NoScopeTeemoApr 22, 20182 votes

Yea lets hope they make the game more fun. And open up more buildpaths/roles for alot of champions.

BBW ChaserApr 21, 20182 votes

Whatttttttttttttt? defencess back to melee champions? NOOOOOOO riot make the game so ADCs and Melee champions both of them have 30 armor! and 61-69 base AD lvl 1

Cause you know Melee champion and range champion should have the same stats aint that right? only in that game..

and the people wonder why players quitting that game...lol

GigglesOApr 22, 20182 votes

I mean I love me a game of one shotting. That way I get maximum alt-tab time. I love the grey screen simulator that they put in.

Pika FoxApr 22, 20182 votes

Defense as a stat drastically trumps all offense stats. I doubt youll see riot clamoring to buff defensive items anytime soon.

GigglesOApr 22, 20181 votes

I could say offence trumps all defense stats. There is a happy medium in which we don't have right now. Offence is too high.

Pika FoxApr 22, 20182 votes

You could say that, but youd be factually incorrect. Defense has always and currently does trump offense stats. Most people i see complaining about damage being too high either literally build 0 defensive options or walk into 5 enemy champs and wonder why they got "one shot" by the entire enemy team all hitting them at once.

KeshaunApr 22, 20181 votes

This guy clearly didn't play through the tank meta and we all know how that panned out.

GigglesOApr 22, 20181 votes

You mean the one where damage still won? I mean otherwise noone would ever die because we would all build pure defense and nothing would ever happen?

KeshaunApr 24, 20181 votes

You and I must be thinking of two different tank metas because from what I remember is Maokai, Nautilus, Poppy and many other pure tanks just 1v9ing and squishies didn't have a chance. Those tanks wouldn't die and they had too much crowd control which dealt enough damage to kill squishies and then they'd walk away from each other until one side eventually kept their ADC alive to win the game.

GigglesOApr 25, 20181 votes

You are talking about the season 5ish damage meta, where tanks dealt tons of damage. I'm talking about the S2 tank meta where you couldn't just kill anyone but you didn't die. However if you did die you didn't tank anyone with you, and it was after about 5 minutes of just running in circles.

Pika FoxApr 30, 20181 votes

Damage has never beaten out defense in LoL ever. Hell, garen has some of the highest DPS output in the game when built damage, how many damage items does he build? Wanna know why mages and ADCs are the only classes that build damage? (other than fringe outliers like riven who literally has an AD -> HP shield ratio and assassins who literally have garbage base damage without damage) Because they inherently have so much free defense (range) that they are the most viable classes to build into damage, and you need something to kill towers and objectives.

You do 0 damage when youre dead, and theres a reason in pro play you rarely see more than specific archtypes, of which theres only 1 or 2 of per team, build more than 1 maybe 2 "offensive" items.

GigglesOApr 30, 20181 votes

IF damage never beat defense, we would all be walking around not killing each other...

Pika FoxApr 30, 20181 votes

That makes no sense? Of course people are eventually going to die when being hit hard enough. My statement is that defensive items and stats are worth more than offensive items and stats in the game in general. It doesnt matter if you can kill someone in 3 hits if you get chain CCd for 6 seconds of which you died within the first second.

GigglesOApr 30, 20181 votes

that isn't armor magic resist or health killing you. You just proved my point, damage is better.

Damage and CC, CC is not defense.

Pika FoxMay 1, 20181 votes

? No? If you stack damage, you die a lot faster than someone who stacked defense. Mages and ADCs have inherent range to stay out of threat areas, so they can get away with it the easiest. Everyone else stacks defense so they can actually do something.

Again, if you believe your own BS, try full damage garen or 5 ADC teamcomps vs 5 tanks. See who wins.

GigglesOMay 1, 20181 votes

On Garen, I build black cleaver, deaths dance,stereks, last wisperor, with dead mans(for the mobility) because it is more effective than pure tank which does nothing.

You can hit e and kill Rammus through his defense is ball curl before it ends.

Pika FoxMay 2, 20181 votes

Yeah, and good luck doing anything with that garen build. It doesnt work in higher rated games unless you steamroll the enemy team.

GigglesOMay 2, 20181 votes

Where is your rank for experience? It works in plat and low diamond...

Also, nothing this season works unless you steamroll the enemy... Great argument you got there.

Pika FoxMay 2, 20181 votes

Works rarely at best, and would be far from the best build.

Edit: GG mobile writing, mispelling everything