What is the counterplay to bruisers and tanks as an adc or mage?

Spookÿ··2 votes·2,903 views

So heres the thing. You are playing a mid lane mage or an adc right? When all of a sudden a Darius or Garen walks up to you and Slows or silences you and then starts beating the crap out of you right? Well im sure this has happened to everyone, but what is the counterplay to a tank with 4k hp that can instantly fuck your day by building 0 or 1 damage item?

Lets say you have 5 damage items and a GA or idk a Deadmans on an adc. Then along comes 5 tank items with 1 damage item, and then they can instantly win that fight because they have more defense than you. How is it fair that someone with 3k hp and 200 MR and Armor can instantly beat an ADC in a fight because they have low defense from building offensively? At what point is base damage too high Riot? Its a little ridiculous that people are playing "Tank ____ Top lane" because if you cant die, you instantly win a fight. If an item like item 3742 or item 3053 is going to give you health, you can't make it also give them a shit ton of offensive stats too. As an adc, you have to prioritize damage items to be useful early, but when others can just build straight tank or bruiser early they will wreck your day in an early skirmish.

I think an easy way to make this more balanced would be to either add more early game hp or resist to ADC items or reduce the amount of damage increase on most tank items. Investing half the gold of an adc item into something like steracks that gives them essentially just as much damage and makes them even tankier is completely unfair to squishy carries.

Let me know what you think about this in the comments and if you think i'm wrong on any of this, then please give me your logic behind this because the idea of a tank beating an ADC or Mage in a fight SIMPLY because they can out-tank the others damage is uncomprehendable.

Thank you

Edit: Poppy + Iceborn + Full tank. You cant kill her because she has 4k hp and she will destroy you because of the high ass damage on sheen proc. Or Add a thornmail and you kill yourself while they take negative damage. Same concept of needing a premade team that isnt stupid right? Never fight the tanks, but let them free farm the game away is what every comment is saying :)

Edit #2: Here is some evidence from a recent game i played of a garen being unfuckingbelievable with only 1 damage item :)

https://gyazo.com/ba847f58f80022fad7cc5a8e796ef9f0 https://gyazo.com/b61f6d3c7a11cee667ae62ff12e809f1

29 Comments

Malayria7 votes

You absolutely must watch your positioning, pay attention to the minimap and kite. These are the capstones for any adc or mage.

BastionKross7 votes

When all of a sudden a Darius or Garen walks up to you and Slows or silences you and then starts beating the crap out of you right?

If you let champions with very low mobility like them "walk up to you" as a ranged champion, you fully deserve the ass kicking you're about to receive. Part of playing a ranged champion is proper positioning.

DeathBurst1 votes

^This, I concur.

Ralanr4 votes

You don't let them get close. Don't complain about it being stupid or unfair as counterplay, mages and ADCs usually have the tools they need to stay away.

Big Lincoln3 votes

not be a shit player and destroy them with your vastly superior champion?

Darius and garen should not be problems for any ADC unless you got flanked and your support isn't paying attention

I should ask you what the counterplay is to 550 minimum range crits with 45% bonus armor pen and 15% extra damage off one item. why shouldn't I win the fight if I manage to close the gap as a melee with no mobility or hard CC?

OurLestrade2 votes

Have a front line and hide behind it.

Spookÿ1 votes

The issue I face must be my teams then. Because 90% of the teams I play with have no idea how to stay grouped and fight together. When that is the case, if the tanks are left alone they will continue to farm and gain even more HP and levels which makes them even stronger. So If I am not supposed to get near them and fight them, then how does anyone stop them from free farming?

Catastrop1 votes

Then play champions who can peel for themselves, or don't care about their frontline abandoning them because of their range. That way you don't have to care about them.

Spookÿ1 votes

So you are basically saying 1 trick caitlyn. Got it

Catastrop2 votes

Cassiopeia Brand Ezreal Karma Kennen Lissandra Lux Syndra Vayne Velkoz Viktor Xerath Last I checked, these champions aren't Caitlyn.

Spookÿ1 votes

Out of all of those, the only 2 that could escape a darius or garen from getting on them are karma and lissandra. Every other requires that you land a skill shot to keep them from getting to you, which they will just escape in .3 seconds anyway because of the tenacity on MR boots.

Ralanr1 votes

Vayne literally has a point and click knockback.

Catastrop1 votes

Lmao wat? Cassiopeia Brand Kennen Syndra Velkoz Viktor build item 3116, which pretty much shuts juggernauts down.

Ezreal builds item 3025 Vayne can just kill them Lux Xerath should never be in range of a juggernaut.

Aptest1 votes

i can not see any of these champions, if played well, having any kind of trouble 1v1ing a darius by keeping him at range.

its when he's got an engage champion behind him that you need to be afraid.

but in these cases, you're not really fighting the darius.

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

{quoted}

What is the counterplay to bruisers and tanks as an adc or mage?

range

range gives you an additional level of control over the battlefield and once you squander this advantage, you may have cc or something but you probably will just pay dearly.

You are playing a mid lane mage or an adc right? When all of a sudden a Darius or Garen walks up to you and Slows or silences you and then starts beating the crap out of you right?

There's nothing sudden about it. You dictate when it is wise for them to do any of this. They chunk you so hard because its the only chance they'll ever get

Do not allow them to do this or if you can't then yield until your team can come and create a situation where ranged can act but melee cannot

Lets say you have 5 damage items and a GA or idk a Deadmans on an adc. Then along comes 5 tank items with 1 damage item, and then they can instantly win that fight because they have more defense than you. How is it fair that someone with 3k hp and 200 MR and Armor can instantly beat an ADC in a fight because they have low defense from building offensively?

Nothing is fair if your definition of "win" and baseless declaration of the winner is so blatantly biased

Who cares how many damage items they have. You put out some level of damage, its either enough or it isn't. You have your own advantages. Exploit them or die.

Its a little ridiculous that people are playing "Tank __ Top lane" because if you cant die, you instantly win a fight. If an item like or is going to give you health, you can't make it also give them a shit ton of offensive stats too.

neither of those give a ton of offensive stats

As an adc, you have to prioritize damage items to be useful early, but when others can just build straight tank or bruiser early they will wreck your day in an early skirmish.

false, nay double false!

first false because you don't have to prioritize damage to be useful as an adc early false again because you imply an adc must be useful earlygame!!!

I think an easy way to make this more balanced

NO

If these items are giving such massive damage then why aren't you building them on adcs? Or why are you still playing adcs if there's so much damage going around. The meta state does not support your theory.

Maximum Morde1 votes

Kite. Unless ur an ADC, then you just right click them to death.

Eedat1 votes

Lol. Range.

Kiting and positioning. An ADC can position themselves in a safe location in a fight which means the bruiser is going to have to aggressively dive which is very high risk.

This sounds more of a problem of you not understanding the role

Nagoh Shan1 votes

Kill them

Erockandroll1 votes

Glass cannons arn't meant to duel.

Get one member on your team to peel, and they will melt. And if that didn't happen because they snuck up on you, then that would mean you were miles out of position. If they nabed you from the fog of war, it means you need more vision, and that you need to respect the areas where you lack vision.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

CC, mobility abilities and summoner spells, range, wards, so you can back off in time. Garen and company don't have too much damage, you just have no resists and small hp pool - I still remember when once I fought as a full tank Rengar vs full tank J4 and full tank Braum. It was something like 5-6 minutes and in the end they killed me with the help of a third person - their midlaner. Tanks don't deal damage compared to anyone that gets offensive items. But you can't expect to go full AD or AP and be tanky, and survive any damage. Even most supports with good base damages can combo for at least half hp the enemy squishies lategame.

specter4241 votes

reducing their hp to 0

Catastrop1 votes

Throw your CC at them, fight them with your frontline.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Well seeing as most people right now are complaining about adcs going toplane, they couldn't care less about your plight, and are downvoting you because they are tired of adcs beating up bruisers and tanks in top lane.

Ralanr1 votes

If you don't care, don't comment.

Otherwise you're just being an ass.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

I was just giving reasons for the downvotes, I personally didn't downvote though.

But listing myself as part of the downvote crowd despite not actually being part of it was a bad move.

Yeah reading it now does look pretty bad. I'll edit it.

Aptest1 votes

As mage: keep distance. pop slow field or slowing ability between him and you. keep range long, harass from range. As ADC: get peelz.

Mordepool1 votes

You cc them and walk away. Counterplay

Astôlfo1 votes

By learning how to kite? Getting armorpen/MPen? By not staying in their goddamn melee range? CC'ing them? Having any sort of map awareness at all?

Lovelle1 votes

As a mage, you learn to position and kite them with your range and (most likely) superior CC abilities.

As an ADC, you learn to position, build smart, and stay with your team.

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