Create ADC Sightstone

MysterQ·Jul 16, 2017·2 votes·378 views

Can we have a SS with AD. Obviously nothing broken, honestly you would question why a CARRY would ever build it, but for anyone who wants to help the team there should be an option. It shouldn't be too common in everygame, but warding shouldn't be pigeon-holed to support only.

This might have made more sense last season. With pro ADCs actually being referred to as "Utility support" by the commentators. And even then, they probably still wouldn't build it, but if a team wants to commit to warding, then they should have that option. Again even if underused.

16 Comments

The Leo CatJul 16, 20171 votes

Why not just buy the sight stone... it's easily a defensive stat for you seeing that it provides both utility and health.

MysterQJul 16, 20171 votes

Because SS itself is a very cheap item. It doesn't provide much, and the SS build-outs are also not going to be used by a normal AD.

AlienPrimateJul 16, 20171 votes

I can actually see item 2301 possibly being useful on some ADC's who have AP ratios like Varus and MF. It gives a good amount of gold income to get other items faster and a pretty big speed buff. The speed buff can really help to either kite or chase.

TheLastShadow45Jul 16, 20171 votes

but warding shouldn't be pigeon-holed to support only.

Well in low elos it is, but in high elo smart players will ward. Plus ADC's should be upgrading to this later on. item 3363

MysterQJul 16, 20171 votes

Right, but if we had more wards I could still see it helping in some levels. Specifically hopefully in low ELO, but last split "Utility ADC" became a thing.

TheLastShadow45Jul 16, 20171 votes

the "Utility ADC" were Ashe and Sivir cause of their ults.

MysterQJul 17, 20171 votes

Varus too. Sivir actually wasn't used much, but yea you can call her a utility.

My point was just if the AD isn't carrying then at least they can ward more.

nfzetaJul 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Varus too. Sivir actually wasn't used much, but yea you can call her a utility.

My point was just if the AD isn't carrying then at least they can ward more.

The problem with that thinking is you can't make a vision item that's also efficient in combat stats, that would be a broken item. Also if the ad is behind or not carrying that doesn't decrease the importance of ADC as a role and every bit of farm they get is usually pooled into dmg, its why even if there is a fed assassin on the team its not usually a good idea for most adcs to rush GA, say first or second item.

ParoeJul 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The problem with that thinking is you can't make a vision item that's also efficient in combat stats, that would be a broken item. Also if the ad is behind or not carrying that doesn't decrease the importance of ADC as a role and every bit of farm they get is usually pooled into dmg, its why even if there is a fed assassin on the team its not usually a good idea for most adcs to rush GA, say first or second item.

You could definitely make an AD vision item. item 2049 + item 1038 + item 1053 +500g = Deadly blossom +70AD +15% lifesteal Unique passive: Kills and assists spawn death blossoms. Death blossoms have the same stats as a standard ward, +30 seconds for each additional blossom within 800 range. Only the first blossom grants vision.

Sightstone cost is converted into AD and lifesteal.

nfzetaJul 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You could definitely make an AD vision item. + + +500g = Deadly blossom +70AD +15% lifesteal Unique passive: Kills and assists spawn death blossoms. Death blossoms have the same stats as a standard ward, +30 seconds for each additional blossom within 800 range. Only the first blossom grants vision.

Sightstone cost is converted into AD and lifesteal.

There is your problem. Your item already contradicts itself. First you're putting an item for behind adcs that requires them to participate in fights.

Second, To make up for how op a standard ward would be you deny choice. This however ends up REALLY gutting its potential as a vision choice as vision is all about where you have it.

Third, You make a bad vision item for adcs not already ahead which only further puts them behind, thereby robbing the team as a whole of the dmg ADCs are meant to give.

I have to say though, I do like your thought process with the death blossoms, its similar to the zombie ward rune that's soon to come, however it still has many flaws.

ParoeJul 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

There is your problem. Your item already contradicts itself. First you're putting an item for behind adcs that requires them to participate in fights.

Second, To make up for how op a standard ward would be you deny choice. This however ends up REALLY gutting its potential as a vision choice as vision is all about where you have it.

Third, You make a bad vision item for adcs not already ahead which only further puts them behind, thereby robbing the team as a whole of the dmg ADCs are meant to give.

I have to say though, I do like your thought process with the death blossoms, its similar to the zombie ward rune that's soon to come, however it still has many flaws.

How is meant for behind ADCs? And how is it even a "behind" item?! Its for AD champions. Unless you think only marksmen and losers buy lifesteal?

Your entire argument assumes that the item is for ADCs and that they will never be part of fights. It shows you dont understand the concept or core of the item. The idea of the item is based around skirmishes; Fights in which you assist become warded. This means that contested objectives can be warded and lanes can be warded. Stomp games become passively warded, and picks become warded as well. An assassin with item 3147 item 3814 item 3142 item 3071 and the suggested item would be able to prowl the jungle and pick off squishies WHILE warding to provide a clear foothold to pick off more people. Wards win games, its not just the supports job to be a wardslut.

nfzetaJul 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

How is meant for behind ADCs? And how is it even a "behind" item?! Its for AD champions. Unless you think only marksmen and losers buy lifesteal?

Your entire argument assumes that the item is for ADCs and that they will never be part of fights. It shows you dont understand the concept or core of the item. The idea of the item is based around skirmishes; Fights in which you assist become warded. This means that contested objectives can be warded and lanes can be warded. Stomp games become passively warded, and picks become warded as well. An assassin with and the suggested item would be able to prowl the jungle and pick off squishies WHILE warding to provide a clear foothold to pick off more people. Wards win games, its not just the supports job to be a wardslut.

First you're the one who's not understanding the core of the item. The very example you put forward shows that. If an assassin delayed their build with that ward item they wouldn't have all that burst. Also if they did have those other items and were ahead trinket wards would usually be enough anyway. You only really struggle with ward control in soloq because you're on the back foot or the support refuses to buy SS.

Then that brings us to the inherent problem with the item. The life steal and bit of health as you say make it seem like a skirmish item but skirmishes are fought and won through vision, so usually you would be double warding somewhere or just getting kills in a lane if you're split pushing and therefore warding where minions would usually give you vision.

To make the item properly useful you would have to give back choice and giving choice there would make the item pretty broken. Maybe in lower elos you wouldn't realise it but in higher elo and pro play this item would be ridiculous at times and a REALLY bad idea at others.

Ad bruisers up top can't afford to have this as an early game item because of scaling, ADCs just can't afford to take it at all other than in really weird situations. For mid assassins this would also mess up their scaling.

The closest thing I could see to working (at least in soloq) is to have the item be similar to support items or item 3252 that upgrades into item 3134 . In that destroying wards with say item 3147 or getting assists upgrades into a mini-sightstone that would later build into this item and even then it'll be a much weirder option than the easily accessible sightstone, at least for tanky supports.

ParoeJul 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

First you're the one who's not understanding the core of the item. The very example you put forward shows that. If an assassin delayed their build with that ward item they wouldn't have all that burst. Also if they did have those other items and were ahead trinket wards would usually be enough anyway. You only really struggle with ward control in soloq because you're on the back foot or the support refuses to buy SS.

Then that brings us to the inherent problem with the item. The life steal and bit of health as you say make it seem like a skirmish item but skirmishes are fought and won through vision, so usually you would be double warding somewhere or just getting kills in a lane if you're split pushing and therefore warding where minions would usually give you vision.

To make the item properly useful you would have to give back choice and giving choice there would make the item pretty broken. Maybe in lower elos you wouldn't realise it but in higher elo and pro play this item would be ridiculous at times and a REALLY bad idea at others.

Ad bruisers up top can't afford to have this as an early game item because of scaling, ADCs just can't afford to take it at all other than in really weird situations. For mid assassins this would also mess up their scaling.

The closest thing I could see to working (at least in soloq) is to have the item be similar to support items or that upgrades into . In that destroying wards with say or getting assists upgrades into a mini-sightstone that would later build into this item and even then it'll be a much weirder option than the easily accessible sightstone, at least for tanky supports.

You just told the creator of a concept item they understand their own concept. You also didnt read the item it seems; it has no health on it. the gold from sightstone is converted in AD and lifesteal; reason being we need another high AD lifesteal item that ISNT meant for marksmen. BTs shield makes it designed for marksman. The concept item is meant for any AD and shines brightly in organized teams where you can get picks AND _ successfully contest objectives_.

rtbf221651412Jul 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

the "Utility ADC" were and cause of their ults.

Ashe clearly wasn't considered secondary 'support' because of her slows. Nope.

EschetonJul 18, 20171 votes

Instead of item 2049 + item 3364 simply go item 3147 + item 3340 . Best we can do for now. But I don't see why not. Would allow you to finish your support item into the item active version. And those are nifty.