Let's talk about philosophies

Ataraxas··3 votes·1,915 views

Hey boards! I thought it'd be fun to take a break from talking about balance all the time and talk about philosophies for a change. Just a big heads up before we dive in: THIS THREAD IS INTENDED TO HAVE A DISCUSSION AROUND LONG TERM PHILOSOPHIES AND SHOULD NOT TAKE CURRENT BALANCE INTO ACCOUNT. So with out farther ado, here are some of mines:

I feel like tanks should actually be tanky and we should not have things such as "Tank Bursters." The whole point of tanks is to survive bursts.

And that assassins should actually be bursty and not have a 5 second delay in all their abilities. Now I understand there should be counter play, but not letting assassins assassinate by delaying their own abilities doesn't feel like the right step. Assassins should have the tools necessary to pick off a priority target quickly, that's their entire point. It should be up to the victim to buy something that lets him survive an assassin's burst. My suggestion would be along the lines of removing the delays in assassin's abilities and making anti-burst items available for victims to buy. It is their responsibility to survive a burst as a squishy by buying items, not the assassins's responsibility to not be able to do what they were meant to do in the first place by having delays in their own abilities.

I also believe fighters should actually be able to duel without ADCs complaining they can't "1v1 them." I really don't have much else to add to this one, I find it annoying when ADCs complain about not being able to duel fighters. Mate, their whole point is to win duels, they give up teamfighting for that. Why do you want to be able to do everything?

What do you think? Agree? Disagree? I'm curious to hear some of you philosophies as well.

5 Comments

C9 Squeeky 1 votes

Tanks do WAY too much damage for not building any AD/AP. Their base damage is just too many high. Idc if people think they need damage to be a threat while their CC is down, they are NOT supposed to be as threatening as a Juggernaut while having more tankiness and CC. Tanks probably have too much wave-clear as well. They act like midlaners -- Push hard, roam. And since they are way more useful in teamfights than their toplane counterparts (more tankiness, CC to lock down carries, decent dmg), they just have it all. The only way to beat them is to basically play Camille or maybe Fiora/Kled. No one else can compete. Even tank junglers do a lot of damage with their abilities. They are so tanky that they can survive long enough to get multiple rotations off. Who needs AD when you're basically an unkillable mage. To me, tanks are the biggest offenders in the game. Boards will disagree and say it's botlane (ADC or Support). I don't think tanks should win any duel, they exist to absorb damage and disrupt/lock-down the enemy, they don't need to be a Jack of all Trades, generalist who are good at everything. Armor/MR is too good of an early game stat, if you ask me. Mages/ADCs cant win vs tanks until late in the game. I mean, why does a full-tank sion ult take half of Morgana's HP? Olaf going cinderhulk into pure tank, does more damage than a juggernaut with BC+T-Hydra.

item 3047 item 3155 are basically anti-burst/assassin items. Assassins are tricky by nature. On the one hand, people will complain about burst w/o counterplay, the other hand complains they can't kill their target (fast enough). Generally should be in 1-3-1 splitpush comps, better at splitting and taking out single targets but offering little to no teamfight utility or contribution beside their assassination. Assassins may or may not have poor wave clear.

Fighters/Bruisers/Divers imo ought to generally win any 1v1 unless vs another fighter. That's why they are called Fighters. ADCs should fear them. Assassins should fear them because Fighters are beefier. Right now, Juggernauts are not really feared, more like they are regarded as squishier tanks or splitpushers who can't teamfight well (and the meta does not favor any splitpush meta toplane).

ADCs should never truly win any 1v1 until they reach a certain item breakpoint/powerspike (more mid to late, not early). To me, an ADC should need a meatshield in order to consistently pump out DPS; right now their crit damage and MS from FFW gives them a lot of maneuverability to reposition and kite in teamfights and Juggernauts in general. ADCs should lose to melee non-supports unless they kite but right now it's TOO EASY to kite.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

Disagree on the assassin thing. They're doing just fine, especially when it comes to bursting squishies (okay maybe Rengar is a bit absurd). The issue is how many defensive tools supports have.

Which leads me to one I've been thinking of recently. I think some of the support items should be retooled to be enablers that allow the support to make plays, rather than reactive protection items.

Hayaishi1 votes

If Assassins should kill ADCs in less than 5 seconds then ADCs should be able to kill your whole team in less than 5 seconds.

Otherwise how else are ADCs gonna be impactful if they die the moment the assassins looks at them funny?

See why Assassins can't have more burst than they currently do? It's a give and take.

Bob the Toastr1 votes

I think that Assassins should be able to easily kill an ADC (given equal CS and items) if the ADC is alone. However, this is rarely the case as they usually have a support with some CC or heal/shield to keep them alive. So in the case of a 1v1, Assassin should win, in the case of a 1v2, adc + support should win.

Bob the Toastr1 votes

I wish they would return to the cycle of DPS > Tanks > Assassins > DPS.

Seems like ADC's are as bursty, if not more so than assassins.

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