Gragas Suggestions

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My original post is wayyy too long. Feel free to read it if you want, but I'm going to post the shortest summary possible right here. Gragas needs:

• His body slam to be a relevant late game initiate, it used to be much better when its movement speed scaled in to the late game, now it's static and falls off more than it should.
• He needs to maintain his low base movement speed so that his escape is worse, but having "movement speed increased when moving towards enemy champions" would be a great addition to his Drunken Rage. Gragas walks super slow after all, but wants to fight.
• Putting his passive effect on his Drunken Rage only (perhaps half on cast, half on hit) would give once again more incentive to go in.
• This leaves him room for a passive that facilitates even more brawly partying.
• He needs to have a bit more freedom to use his mana so that Catalyst/RoA aren't always rushed on him, since it makes him so passive while he waits for it.
• Gragas in his current state has the worst answer to a back line ADC in late game team fights than he has ever had. Allowing his Ultimate to refresh the slow effect on those affected by Barrel Roll would give him a nice option he can go for to bother back line ADCs.

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Below here is my original post which outlines things in more detail, along with much more specific changes:

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Greetings Summoners. What type of person is expected to make a post with balance suggestions? Can anybody be listened to? I have no idea. Clearly I'm just some guy, but I'll at least give some info about myself so that hopefully I seem slightly more credible. I was once a very serious player in ranked team premades, and often was queued against NintendudeX and his old non-LCS team. We had overall a losing record against them but still had victories. My main was tank Gragas. I quit for a long time, but I'm playing again.

Here I am now as a nobody, who has been experimenting with Gragas and attempting to dissect what I think his issues are. I have some general suggestions that I think are somewhat crucial to the character, and would love to hear what others have to think.

TLDR; for the super specific changes are at the bottom

TLDR; for the general idea about the changes before reading specifics are right here:

My suggestions about Gragas are being approached with four angles in mind: maintaining his weaknesses, covering crippling blind spots, encouraging more active play instead of passive play that relies on batteries, becoming a "drunken brawler."

Before I begin, I'll give a brief history lesson of Gragas, just in case: Gragas once had three huge problems:

1. High AP ratios made him a burst mage instead of a drunken brawler, as well as having a super long range Barrel roll and lower cooldown ultimate allowed him to poke/chunk without much effort or counterplay. 2. His escape was much, much better than it is now. It was a 6 second base cooldown. Combine that with his nearly 100% up-time damage reduction that had nearly double the current values, plus his lower cooldown ultimate, there was very little do be done to catch him. he also had a higher base movement speed in proportion to the rest of the cast compared to what he has now. 3. He could stand far away and get free HP and mana. He could stand far away and get free CS. He could stand far away and get free harass. He was a battery with little counterplay. There was very little reason to start a fight with his fists since there was so much gain from afar. *

Gragas' overhaul was to deal with these issues as such:

*1. Lower AP ratios and base damage, clearly we have a Gragas who does less damage. 2. A very large cooldown when Body Slam doesn't hit a target. Lower base movement speed compared to the rest of the cast, in fact, it's currently the lowest it's ever been in proportion to others. Higher Ultimate cooldown (though, this could be more aimed at his nuking ability, or perhaps just because the cooldown was rather low, at any rate, it still affects his escape). 3. He has more reason to go in since he has a decently damaging melee spell. He still has large battery components left over. He does have less free CS, though. *

This is a brief summary of some things that cause passive play, sub-par brawling, or sub-part team rumbling with Gragas:

• His most popular item builds still include an early Catalyst in to Rod of Ages, or stacking plenty of doran rings. This means that his mana issues combined with not enough incentive to go in are still a problem http://champion.gg/champion/Gragas/
• Maintaining a poorer escape doesn't mean he needs to have a poorer initiate, particularly in the late game.
• The removal of his 40% attack speed slow may have given him a blind spot with few good options as a bruiser/tank when trying to bother opposing ADCs in late game team fights. *

This is the main portion of my post, where I will outline more specifically what I think should be changed:

Body slam: IMO this move is what Gragas' gameplay is stemmed from most of the time. Relying on it to get offensive ults/ganks, with the opportunity for counter-play by using creeps to block, or yourself to block a valuable teammate, or wasting a cooldown to dodge it since it has huge drawbacks on whiff, accentuated more than ever by the "All in the Hips" tweak from 4.14: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-414-notes

I think the drawbacks are great, as well as the reward. Gragas' low base movement speed is also a key component to maintaining this move's weakness on whiff. It is a good thing that he runs away slowly when body slam is on cooldown, because it emphasizes his escape weakness when it is on cooldown.

It's one of the few dashes that can be countered by people blocking it, and when late game comes around, you can bet for sure that the opposing team's tank is going to be in front. If a fight has started, supports have no problem brushing off the effects of body slam for their carries, because Gragas does pretty low damage, so standing between him and a carry is a pretty easily imaginable scenario.

I think this body blocking is one of the more interesting things that he has to work around. When late game comes around is where it becomes problematic.

Early/mid game, it just feels great to be exposed so hard when this move hits and someone might die, or when it misses and I die. Late game is a different story, it feels terrible as an initiation when his flash is down, because everyone else's movement speed has gone up so much, combined with this version of Body Slam having a static speed.

I think this is his #1 a-bit-too-big-of-a-weakness in the late game. Body slam is currently the slowest it's ever been (late game), and there are more dashes on squishies than ever to dodge it too. Gragas' walking speed is also the slowest it's ever been in proportion to the rest of the cast. (formerly Gragas as 315+items vs slowest opponents as 300+ items, compared to now where Gragas is 330+items vs slowest opponents @ 325+items). The slow walking speed is an additional hindrance to attempting to start a fight.

Body Slam has received a lot of tweaks over time to its collision mechanics, featuring some strange bugs that prevented it from hitting, among other things. Currently it does sometimes go through jungle monsters (gromp in particular), but it's rare. A more common thing I experience with it, although still rare, is what I'm assuming is an unintended side effect of altering the collision mechanics. Currently Body Slam will hit opponents directly behind Gragas. There are occasions where, when being chased by an opponent and using Body Slam in a direction completely away from them, Gragas' back will hit them, preventing his escape.

These points leads to my overall suggestion for the move: Allow Body Slam's travel speed to scale in to the late game, so that it may be a relevant initiate while maintaining it's large potential for counter-play.

This is a pretty odd mechanic for a dash, but it is a mechanic it once had! This doesn't mean I think it should scale the same way it did before. Please scroll to the bottom to see just HOW I think this move should scale

Finally, fix what I'm assuming is an unintentional positioning of hit boxes, by preventing Gragas' back from hitting opponents. If the entirety of the hitbox were moved, say, 50 units forward, it might also give him some opportunity to body slam creeps to hit opponents who stand just that tiny bit too close behind them while CSing, giving a bit more chance to get a hit in during lane.

Barrel Roll: Gragas has always been known as a character who could chase well, since he's always had a large movement speed slow combined with a dash to help him stick. Currently, with the movement speed slow attached to his barrel roll, and with the removal of his attack speed slow completely gone from his kit, he's left in a spot where I feel like he has a bit of a blind spot.

I'm going to list 2 somewhat common scenarios that Gragas faces, and how the current Barrel Roll is sort of the culprit of these scenarios.

1. Obviously, Gragas' ability to reach ADCs protected by supports is not as good as almost any other bruiser/tank with a dash since his initiate can be blocked. So what does he do when he can't reach an ADC in the same way that those more automatic characters can (Vi/J4, as two of many obvious examples)? Well, he used to be able to slow their attack speed (40%) if he could hit them with a barrel, giving him time to lug his junk over to them to bother them. Obviously, this isn't the case anymore. I'm not suggesting that this returns either, I'm just pointing out that his ability to bother ADCs in the back line of a late game team fight is pretty poor right now.

Another option would be to use your ult to push the ADC back. Whether your team comp has another bruiser or not to chase down the enemy ADC, using Gragas' ult to push back an enemy ADC may be effectively stunning them, but it's also providing them safety. The "stun" effect when knocking an opponent away from a fight is not great, because it's not one where it can be taken advantage of by the rest of the team, since the opponent is moved to a safe place, where their and their supports' cooldowns can safely count down while they are out of harm's way. (I won't mention pulling the ADC towards you from far away, since it is in no way reliable considering the travel time of the ult and the specific place you have to hit with it; sure it could happen, but it's outrageously unreliable to pull good opponents with a long range ult). In short, it's can be pretty low impact to put an ADC in a safe location for 1-2 seconds.

2. Barrel roll is now a suuuuuuper easy tool to use to save yourself or escaping teammates with when explosive cask isn't required. Saving teammates with barrel roll takes far less skill than it does to save a teammate with his ult. It's unsatisfying to say the least. It's not a super common scenario, but I'm pointing out that it will happen, and it will be easy. It feels like using a Janna tornado or Lulu Glitter Shot + running away. That type of easy, in contrast with his former scenario where he has to aim his ultimate well to save teammates.

These two points lead to my suggestion: for point 1: Allow Gragas' Ult to refresh the slow duration on anyone currently effected by Barrel Roll's slow. This way if he manages to hit an ADC with his barrel, and then his ult after, he can remove them from the fight in a more meaningful way, since they'll be gone for an uncomfortable amount of time unless they burn a cooldown to reengage. for point 2: Make the slow be split among the targets hit. This one is here just because I am still stuck in the mind set that Gragas' saves should be done primarily with his ult, since it requires a lot more precision (which I like).

Drunken Rage: I've almost never seen anyone actively try to cancel Gragas' channel. Perhaps because it's a short channel, or perhaps because it's attached to an attack that, although decently damaging, is not really worth stopping unless it's in a 1v1 scenario or something similar. Channels that makes sense to stop are things like Vi's Vault Breaker, Varus' Piercing Arrow, or all of the channeled ultimates. Gragas' Drunken Rage provides a bit more damage than Shen's passive. This move is not worth being an interruptable channel, plain and simple. The counterplay to Gragas is in his skill shots and using others to block his body slam. This exists in lane, in team fights, in ganks.

Strangely enough, when I'm in a rough spot and I need to run away while Body Slam is on cooldown, and I cast Drunken Rage, I LIKE it when it gets interrupted. Why? Well, it gives the damage reduction on cast, and the "on next hit" component only appears if the channel finishes. This means when the channel is interrupted, the ability goes on cooldown right away, giving Gragas a very small waiting period before he can cast it again for more damage reduction/potential use of his passive. Whereas if it's not interrupted, he has to wait 5 seconds for the "on next hit" component to expire, and then he may wait for the ability's cooldown to run down.

Suggestion for Drunken Rage: For the sake of giving him initiation power, but NOT escape power, give Gragas a minor movement speed boost when moving towards enemy champions when he casts drunken rage. The specifics are at the bottom.

**tldr; ** Here's where it all comes together. I'll list what I think are viable potential changes as a whole. Please note that they encourage a less passive laning phase, maintain his poorer escape, and give him a potential answer to a tough late game scenario that he no longer has a solid/reliable answer to

**Body Slam: ** Here are the two renditions I've come up with:

1. Body Slam's movement speed scales with Gragas' level. From 900(ish) at level 1, to 1070 at level 18. basically +10 movement speed per level.

OR

1. Gragas' Body Slam scales with movement speed boosts. I'm not referring to boots (not even mobility boots) or other permanent movement speed increases like % increase items/runes/masteries, but for example righteous glory, or sivir ultimate. If Gragas' Body slam received 25% of their bonus movement speed, that could allow some synergy. In this example, Righteous Glory would change Body Slam from having 900 movement speed to 1125 when activated.

2. Mana Cost from 50 to 45.

Additionally, move the hit box of Gragas' Body Slam forwards, so that he cannot hit targets directly behind him. I think just flat out moving the hit box 50 ish units forwards might be nice, and would allow him to hit his laning opponent with it an extra time every now and then.

Barrel Roll:

1. Allow Gragas' Explosive Cask to refresh the slow duration on anyone effected by it.
2. Split the slow evenly amongst those hit by it.
3. change mana cost from 60/65/70/75/80 to 50/55/60/65/70

Drunken Rage:

1. Mana Cost reduced to 25 from 30.
2. No longer an interruptable 1 second channel. Is instead an uninterruptable 1 second animation (basically remove the channel bar from above his head and keep it the same).
3. Restores 2% of maximum hp on cast. Restores an additional 3% when you hit an enemy.

Explosive Cask: The same.

Happy Hour (passive):

• No longer grants HP on spell cast (die battery, die)
• New name: "Let's get this party started." When Gragas takes a drink (uses Drunken Rage), he may cast it a second time for an additional 25 mana to consume a charge (perhaps let out a burp or a yell or taunt or something) and gain a bonus.
• Bonus is 5-10% increased movement speed when moving towards enemies (based on level) for 3 seconds, and his next ability deals an additional 10+10*Gragas' level in damage.
• May hold only one charge at a time.
• 70/60/50 seconds to obtain a charge (based on level). Charges begin to build after he has taken his first drink in the game.
• Hitting a champion with Drunken Rage reduces the cooldown by 5 seconds, hitting a large monster decreases it by 2.5 seconds.

Sorry for the long read. Let me know what you think : )