If you're complaining about Yasuo being OP, please read.

ZLbSwAR23I·Nov 26, 2015·15 votes·2,499 views

54% win rate with the most experienced players. 51% on average. He isn't overpowered. He isn't broken. He is strong against people who expect to stomp their lane from the word go. If you are losing to Yasuo, you are either playing against him with a champion he directly counters or you are playing far too aggressive. That's it.

Mundo is pushing a 63% win rate and I see a tenth of the amount of threads on him as I do on Yasuo.

If you're part of the downvote brigade, pay special attention to the following: Rather than downvoting and muttering "fucking Yasuo jumps in always kill me ffs", why not (and this is revolutionary, I know) EXPLAIN why he's OP? Because I've never actually seen someone give a good reason.

82 Comments

J EpsteinNov 26, 20155 votes

down voted because:

manaless/ resourceless champ , can spam long range AoE knock up with no consequences.
is strong during lane phase, snowballs with one item, stays strong through rest of game.
he's fun and unique, so alot of people play him, so alot of people also feed as him, so 54% win rate is good on a popular champ
it's one thing to be obnoxious and have a low win rate , or be obnoxious but not popuplar in ranked , but to be obnoxious, decent win rate and popular in ranked is never good.

would list more, but I'm sure you are gonna respond with some generic salty response anyways.

FadedFreezyNov 26, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=xXBlue FalconXx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jefrli0c,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-26T03:07:10.377+0000)

down voted because:

manaless/ resourceless champ , can spam long range AoE knock up with no consequences.

is strong during lane phase, snowballs with one item, stays strong through rest of game.

he's fun and unique, so alot of people play him, so alot of people also feed as him, so 54% win rate is good on a popular champ

it's one thing to be obnoxious and have a low win rate , or be obnoxious but not popuplar in ranked , but to be obnoxious, decent win rate and popular in ranked is never good.

would list more, but I'm sure you are gonna respond with some generic salty response anyways.

Thank you.

ZLbSwAR23INov 26, 20151 votes

Thanks for trying to explain how! Have an upvote.

As for this "generic salty response" remark, where does it suggest that I'd do that? If anything, you lot (Yasuo hate brigade) are the ones who do that. I'm trying to promote civil discussion. I don't appreciate your labelling.

There are many manaless champs with more long-range poke than Yasuo. It really isn't hard to predict and dodge his Q (which can only be used once every three Qs anyway).
Just like any champion...
I've already explain his win rate. It's 54% for the most experienced players. The ones who have been playing him for months and years, with plenty of wins, who know exactly what his kit is about. It's less than 50% for inexperienced players. That doesn't suggest that there's thousands of noobs bringing his rate down.
Ad hom.

Sona PingNov 26, 20151 votes

As for this "generic salty response" remark, where does it suggest that I'd do that?

League board experience.

To the main point: One: Yes, and they receive many legitimate complaints as well. Something being "worse" at X does not excuse something else from being bad at X. Two: False on all counts. Many champions do not have a strong laning phase. Many champions do not have snowball from one item, but instead require multiple. Many champions do not stay relevant naturally through out the game.

Four: False. That's not what that means.

and finally "win rate ≠ broken" in the first place. They are entirely different concepts but that is what you have mistakenly built your entire belief about this on. Poppy Yorick Olaf and others all are broken but they do not have impressive, or even decent win rates.

ZLbSwAR23INov 26, 20151 votes

Doesn't matter. Judge each person equally and individually.

Manaless champs exist. Yasuo is not the first and he will not be the last. His kit requires him to be manaless.
You'll find that Yauso's win rate actually drops as the game goes on. His impact and relevance lessens. Each champion has a strong phase. Yasuo can be strong early (against many opponenets, but stick him in front of a Malz and lol glhf) but will fall off (unless you go gung ho at him which is playing right into his hands).
That's exactly what it means. He's attacking Yasuo as being "obnoxious". I'd suggest you re-learn the definition. Besides, his win rate is decent for experienced players, not for new players, which is the case for almost all champions.

Sona PingNov 26, 20152 votes

Again, you saying some other manaless champ exist does not excuse the problems a manaless champ may have from being manaless. "His kit requires him to be manaless." citation needed.

As I said "and finally "win rate ≠ broken" in the first place"

And unless I missed him saying that Yasuo's tax reform plans for Ionia was wrong because he was obnoxious... No. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Just "No."

ZLbSwAR23INov 26, 20151 votes

You're being a right smart aleck. It's not very becoming, I suggest you tone it down.

Q is essentially another auto attack (with increased range). Charging mana for another auto attack is not okay. W has a cooldown of seventeen hours. By the time it's back up, all of Yasuo's would-be mana would have regenerated. E is unique on it's own and much like Q, relies on Yasuo being manaless.

It seems you're listing personal hate champs here. Win rate is a major determining factor in champion buffs and nerfs. I have no issues against Poppy, Yorick or Olaf because I've played them. I know what they can do and I know who to pick and what not to do against them. Just like with Yasuo.

"It's one thing to be obnoxious" is ad hominem. It's ad hominem in it's purest form. You could call someone swine, a wanker or an arsehole and it wouldn't be any more classifiable as ad hom. It's a personal attack on Yasuo. Listing a Wikipedia definition and writing '"Just "No."' is extremely obnoxious (oh the irony) and, in the case that it's completely incorrect (as in this instance) it's also pathetic and pitiful. You're dragging this thread down from the civil discussion it was being. If you'd like to continue here, please only refute points on Yasuo with logic and reasoning and not the usage of Latin phrases with sarcasm. Thanks. :)

Sona PingNov 26, 20152 votes

I'm not being a smart aleck, you are just being stubborn and refusing to engage or recognize anything that is being said to you, so I have to repeat myself while ignoring your condescension. And you wonder why someone was sure that they would get nothing but generic salty remarks from you. And here they are!

and here:

{quoted}

CHEERS MATE

THANKS FOR EXPLAINING HOW

Get out of my thread.

{quoted}

If everyone played twenty games as Yasuo, he'd eventually get outplayed so often (because people would actually know how to deal with him) that they'd be crying for buffs to him. Gosh, imagine that.

{quoted}

you lot (Yasuo hate brigade) are the ones who do that.

FratresNov 27, 20151 votes

I'm sorry, his q is easy to dodge? i mean the tornado maybe isn't the hardest skillsot to dodge (nor the easiest), but his regular q and his e+q (including the one the 'tornado' e+q)? really, not easy to dodge in my definitions. Regular Q is almost as fast as an AA, but with more range. And e+q is virtually impossible to dodge without a flash.

ZLbSwAR23INov 27, 20151 votes

Why are you sorry? What are you apologising for?

His Q (in this case, I'm referring to the tornado) is very easy to dodge.

E+Q isn't easy to dodge, but it's super easy to prevent through proper positioning.

FratresNov 27, 20151 votes

Why are you sorry? What are you apologising for?

Figure of speech

His Q (in this case, I'm referring to the tornado) is very easy to dodge.

Well if you want, but his regular q (tornado not loaded) which is 2 out of 3, is really hard to dodge.

E+Q isn't easy to dodge, but it's super easy to prevent through proper positioning.

Only if you're ranged. And even then, it's really hard to have a good positionning all the time to avoid getting jumped on. Maybe i'm just bad, the problem is you don't need a good yasuo to use e+q and kill me in the process, while i need to be good to avoid that and have good positionning.

Dar RaksadaNov 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why are you sorry? What are you apologising for?

His Q (in this case, I'm referring to the tornado) is very easy to dodge.

E+Q isn't easy to dodge, but it's super easy to prevent through proper positioning.

The problem is that he can keep it up for 10 seconds, effectively zoning you from farm, I won't comment on his balance, as I dislike him too much to have an unbiased view, but he's extremely obnoxious, even moreso than old poppy, kassadin when he had his silence or leblanc when she had her silence. ^Personal opinion of course.

FratresNov 27, 20155 votes

Very well, I'm sincerely ready to be convinced, the thing is, i haven't won a single lane (not A SINGLE LANE) vs yasuo in the past month or so. I know i'm not a great player, but I'm supposed to play vs ppl of my level, and i do win a lot of lanes when i'm not vs yasuo. I'm main mid, and these days i keep facing yasuos and yasuos, and always lose my lane. Like, always. Of course that doesn't mean yasuo is OP and i probably do something wrong, that's why i would sincerely hope someone gives me here some advices on how to beat a yasuo. Cause i'm really sick of losing one out of two midlanes cause of him. I've read countless threads, website, lolcounter and all, and there was not any usefull advices that i couldn't figure out on my own.

So please, please, i beg you, explain me how to win a lane vs a yasuo. Cause i really have a lot of trouble, for those reasons:

he's incredibly strong early (from lvl 1-2), has overall (i think) a very strong laning phase (and has an incredible power spike at 2-3); even when he can't straight up kill you and snowball your face, he's a very strong pusher, meaning he'll always outfarm you unless you have a very strong pusher too. That would be ok if staying even with him in farm was a "victory" (like when you face a renekton) because he felt off hard in mid-late game; still, he's also strong lategame and a monster midgame, AND he snowballs stronger that most other midlaners because of his "2-items=my-build-is-over" thingy, and because of his midgame overall. (note that i'm talking 1v1 with no intervention of the jungler here. Note also that most lane-bully strong-pushers like mord, have no escape or defences in a gank situation, but yasuo does have some options with e and w).
He has an insane sustain in lane if he has good positioning (of course a thrash yasuo is thrash, but i play against somewhat decent players). Because of shield and w. that means, to outrade him, i need to aa him (with melee it's really dangerous), then wait and hope he does nothing, then IF his w is on cd i have a very small window of a few seconds to try a trade. If he's good, he'll manage not to get hit during this period. worst case, he has LS in his runes cause he doesn't need crit runes anymore, and outsustains any AP champs. And, anytime, he can jump on you and burst half your life down in a few secs, if his shield is up.

Overall he feels really hard to play against. What i feel like is, it's he counters:

Melee mids (kassa, galio, zed)
AP mids (literally any ap, except maybe very long range like ziggs and all, but i don't play those).

That's way too much. I'm not saying he's "OP", i'm saying he counters most of midlaners, which is not healthy at all. And which is not fun at all. Also, i'm not having any fun playing vs yasuo, and lol is a game, i'm not supposed to not have fun.

Thank you very much, if someone feels like giving me a detailed response and some ways to outplay him.

FratresNov 27, 20151 votes

Also, i've noted most of 'yasuo counters' proposed on the internet are toplaners. The only two decent options there seem to be to counter him mid are akali and kayle, which is way too few. Also, with akali, it's really not a straight-up counter, the lane is still really hard. He shits on you pre-6, probably outfarms you, and if you fail to get a kill at 6-7 the lane is still lost cause you won't be able to OS him anymore. And he has a lot of arguments to kill you at 6 if you engage him.

SithesisLordNov 27, 20151 votes

Kayle being a Fighter doesn´t necessarily make her a top laner. All in all, Kayle is a jack of all trades, really. Her kit allows her to go anywhere and do well as long as she always starts Doran's ring.

But yes, Kayle is amazing against Yasuo. Yasuo is more overloaded than he is overpowered, really. Good thing her E originates at her target and generates the AOE from there. Ain´t no Windwalls gonna block her stuff.

FratresNov 27, 20151 votes

Yeah probably kayle is indeed a real counter to Yasuo. Never said she was a toplaner, but i said it was pretty much the only decent option to counter yasuo mid, and _maybe _ akali, but it's really not that easy with akali..

SithesisLordNov 27, 20151 votes

Oh. Must´ve misunderstood. Whoops.

I never played Akali. Never saw what was so fancy about her to bother, really. But yeah. Now that Rageblade and Gunblade are an actual thing again, i expect the Rise of the Kayle to happen soon.

Then Riot's gonna nerf her directly and not the items. Cuz she can´t have an attosecond in the spotlight.

l Helios lNov 28, 20151 votes

Malzahar, Azir, Kayle, Orianna to a degree, Brand. Key part is keeping your distance and watching minion positioning. I mean, most noobs just run if he tries to trade so actually trade back with him and you can deal with him. Especially with the warlords nerf.

FratresNov 30, 20153 votes

Every champion gets countered. You should not _have to _play a counter to have a shot at beating them. So i'm more asking, how do i beat yasuo with any champion that is neither a direct counter to him nor directly countered by him (except of course if he counters half champs midlane, like the old kassa....)

ZLbSwAR23INov 27, 20151 votes

Nice post! Thanks for the response.

Have you played as Yasuo before? I think, if you tried 20-30 games with him, you'd have a much better understanding of what he can do. I find that if I play that many games with any champion, I know the core do's and do not's when laning against them.

His early game can be strong against the right champion, but more often than not, it's actually his weakest phase. Statistics will support this, with less than a 40% win rate for games ending <25 minutes. It's only until you reach roughly 33 minutes that his win rate hits 50%. Past that, it will rise to a peak of below 52%. That doesn't seem too scary, does it?

You certainly want a ranged AP champion to play against him, but even a Talon can shut him down if used correctly. You need to be able to position yourself correctly, proc his shield and predict his windwall. If you can do all three of those things, you should be able to keep him well away from farm and punish him if he does go in for CS. As I said, playing games as Yasuo will really help you understand just what he can do and where you need to position yourself when playing against him.

FratresNov 27, 20151 votes

I've only played a couple games with him (and i'm really bad with him), but i think i understand all his mechanics, i know all his cooldowns, i know how his passive works, etc. I really studied him. Thing is, it's not enough, while it should be: you shouldn't need to play 20-30 games a champ to be able to play against him - and i don't plan playing all champions. Of course Yasuo has some weaknesses and is possible to outplay. Thing is, i find it really hard at my level (vs yasuo of my level), which is around top silver. The windows to harrass him, for example, are really short: once i proc the shield, i don't have a lot of time to capitalize and do damage on him. Since sometimes he'll also have the windwall, that means i will be able to do full damage once in a while, if he has good positionning, regardless of mine. What i mean is he just need to be out of range or in his ranged minions a few seconds once in a while to be safe, and i find it really hard to capitalize on that. While he can harrass me a lot if i'm ranged (with e+q, then aa), and all the time if i'm melee. Plus he's AD so he has LS possibilities. That means i feel like he's almost impossible to outtrade (mid, btw, top is another story), or outfarm since he pushes a lot. That would be ok if he was trash lategame or so, but as you said, he's at his strongest lategame

His early game can be strong against the right champion, but more often than not

It's true, my problem is, he's weak against a lot of tops, but strong against most of the mids i play. Kassadin, galio, zed, xerath, etc (and even, in my opinion, akali). I feel like he shouldn't be so strong against so many champs. Worst than that, if i play kassadin (my main) vs his worst counters (talon, for instance), i still have a shot at winning, if i play smart, and for example i try to outsustain talon, or farm safe under tower. I feel that with kassadin for example, i have no shot AT ALL vs a yasuo. Cause if i trade or all in, 100% chance to die, if i try to outsustain, i lose, if i farm under tower, not only he outfarms me, but he also _outscales _ me.. And i can't even last hit anyway from level 2, or he kills me. The lane feels like kassa or galio vs lee sin - only lee sin doesn't scale at all! I need to know how to have a shot at beating yasuo even when playing a mid that gets countered by him... And i really don't know how to do that, even with your answer.

Otherwise, i can't see how he would be balanced (i'm not saying he's "OP", he's not overpowered per say, more like impossible to balance with his kit i feel). As for winrate, maybe, but yasuo gets shit on by a lot of top and some mids, plus i don't think winrate means much, alone at least.

You certainly want a ranged AP champion to play against him

Well that's a problem. Since when can a melee counter all melee?

You need to be able to position yourself correctly, proc his shield and predict his windwall

As i said, i feel it depends more on his positionning than mine. Unless i have a shitload of range, then he can't dash on me if i stay far from my own minions. I think it must work with brand, annie, etc.

punish him if he does go in for CS

It's only possible when his shield is down, and even then, i feel he can burst half my life if i go in to punish him... Once again, depends on the champ.

Anyway thank you for your answer, i just feel like i still don't know what to do when i face him in blind games and i don't have a proper counter (which is a small minority of midlaners).

pripustasNov 28, 20151 votes

Try Diana, she wrecks Yasuo. Fizz wrecks Yasuo if he somehow baits wind wall before ulting (skill matchup) Talon doesn't beat Yasuo, wind wall counters W and R.

If you pick ranged champions into Yasuo and then complain, it's your fault. Imagine playing Talon vs Leblanc. It's the same as playing Varus into Yasuo. Ranged champions are a hell to lane against as melee. Yasuo is hell to lane against as (most) ranged champions. Circle of life.

FratresNov 30, 20153 votes

Is a midlane champion _supposed _ to counter 80% of midlaners? (most are ranged...) That's completely unhealthy. That's the old kassadin all over again. So yes, i do complain ;) or at least try to find a solution. Moreover, a lot of melee mid get countered by yasuo too: kass, galio, zed, talon as you said... So if you can't play any midlaner at all or almost, simply because yasuo beats all except diana fizz and a few others, we have a problem, yes. The whole LoL meta of midlane shouldn't revolve around a single champ. Plus i want to have fun in normal blind game. There is so many yasuos right now, if he counters every single midlaner that i play, i won't have a lot of fun... (meeting a counter once in a while is normal in blind, but getting wrecked by yasuo with a champ he's not supposed to counter, without any window of counterplay is not very fun.....)

pripustasNov 30, 20151 votes

Yeah, I forgot Annie. VikingRaid pointed that out. Annie shits on Yasuo. He can't even wind wall her stun Q, she just gets it back. I think Swain should counter Yasuo, or at least don't feed. Chogath is too tanky for Yasuo to straight up kill 1x1, unless Cho is very bad. Take Malphite mid if you want to screw with Yasuo. Yasuo is stronger than most champions level 1-3, once you live trough that, he'll be weaker than most champions until he gets Shiv. At least that was the case before all those changes n stuff. There are a lot of champions who are just bullshit, even more than Yasuo. Vayne top wins against any champion, you just can't do anything. Towers protect from Yasuo, they don't from Vayne.

FratresNov 30, 20152 votes

You didn't answer what i was saying. Yes he has some hard counters, so what? every single laner, including the strongest lane bullies, do so. I don't care about having some champs countering him if 80% of midlaners get hardcountered by him...

Yasuo is stronger than most champions level 1-3, once you live trough that, he'll be weaker than most champions until he gets Shiv. At least that was the case before all those changes n stuff.

Well you need to update then. Yes he has an incredible power spike at 1-3, but he's still extremely strong afterwards. He's a true lane bully. The problem is, lane bullies tend to fall off hard lategame (renek), but yasuo is by some aspects a "hypercarry". A hypercarry lanebully is a true problem.... Particularly when he's also a strong pusher with tools to escape (e) or defend himself (w) in ganks, even if it is situationnal.

There are a lot of champions who are just bullshit, even more than Yasuo. Vayne top wins against any champion, you just can't do anything.

Then why isn't she played toplane in high level ranked? There are a lot of toplaners that can walk all over vayne. Any melee with a dash.. Plus vayne can be shut down very strong if ganked top, yasuo is very safe mid. And anyway, even if i was wrong, some champs being unhealthy is no justification for yasuo being unhealthy - particularly because he's played a lot lately, and it's really annoying to lose ALL my midlanes to him....

Dar RaksadaNov 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I forgot Annie. VikingRaid pointed that out. Annie shits on Yasuo. He can't even wind wall her stun Q, she just gets it back. I think Swain should counter Yasuo, or at least don't feed. Chogath is too tanky for Yasuo to straight up kill 1x1, unless Cho is very bad. Take Malphite mid if you want to screw with Yasuo. Yasuo is stronger than most champions level 1-3, once you live trough that, he'll be weaker than most champions until he gets Shiv. At least that was the case before all those changes n stuff. There are a lot of champions who are just bullshit, even more than Yasuo. Vayne top wins against any champion, you just can't do anything. Towers protect from Yasuo, they don't from Vayne.

He can windwall her stun q, the thing he can't windwall is her r. I'm pretty sure (but not absolutely) he can block her w too.

I'm not saying annie is bad against Yasuo though, just pointing out false information.

pripustasNov 30, 20152 votes

Yes, he can windwall her stun. I never said he can't. What I said is that she gets it back, and the stun passive is not consumed when it's blocked.

Dar RaksadaNov 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Try Diana, she wrecks Yasuo. Fizz wrecks Yasuo if he somehow baits wind wall before ulting (skill matchup) Talon doesn't beat Yasuo, wind wall counters W and R.

If you pick ranged champions into Yasuo and then complain, it's your fault. Imagine playing Talon vs Leblanc. It's the same as playing Varus into Yasuo. Ranged champions are a hell to lane against as melee. Yasuo is hell to lane against as (most) ranged champions. Circle of life.

Diana wrecking Yasuo is not true though, if he's at all smart with his windwall, if he fights in his windwall then Diana has no w or q, which means her ult has an incredibly long cooldown. Even if Diana needs to walk through the wall her w will despawn.

Yasuo is actually listed as a middle champion that counters diana http://champion.gg/champion/Diana/Middle

Edit: I'm sure Diana wrecks bad Yasuo's, Yasuo needs to actually use his w.

pripustasNov 30, 20151 votes

Like most champions, you need to bait wind wall. Q is on a short cooldown. She can press it, and if Yas doesn't wind wall, she gets 2 ults. If he does, she waits for it to time out and uses Q that has x4 times shorter cd.

Dar RaksadaNov 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Like most champions, you need to bait wind wall. Q is on a short cooldown. She can press it, and if Yas doesn't wind wall, she gets 2 ults. If he does, she waits for it to time out and uses Q that has x4 times shorter cd.

Assuming Yas doesn't dodge/ go aggressive at any point. There's a reason Yasuo has a positive winrate against Diana in plat+.

Baiting wind wall works against bad Yasuos, good Yasuos will actually use the oppertunities the windwall gives them. If Yasuo is content just passively farming then what you said will work. But what's preventing yasuo from going aggressive on Diana, and even using windwall aggressively?

Assuming Yasuo doesn't his his q of course.

VikingRaidNov 30, 20152 votes

Annie shits on Yasuo

FratresDec 1, 20151 votes

Who cares? I'm not asking for a counter... I'm asking for how to play my midlaners vs him... I don't want to learn new champs just to counter yasuo...

EndlessSorcererNov 30, 20151 votes

Yasuo has issues dealing with many bruisers and tanks, which is part of the reason he isn't commonly seen top lane (and when he is, it's usually a counterpick against a ranged top-laner). Consider trying some of the following against him: Renekton Jax Irelia MonkeyKing DrMundo Malphite Garen Darius Trundle Volibear XinZhao Yorick

Yasuo has issues when Windwall doesn't block anything significant in his enemies kit and they are capable of harassing/bursting him safely. Some good options would be:

If you want an easy victory in lane, pick Cho'gath against him and max W.

Your E can keep his shield down even if you are only last-hitting minions
Silence cripples his mobility and damage
E is the only ability Windwall can block
You can burst him at most points of the game since he's quite squishy
You get too tanky for him to kill by himself with Rod of Ages and your Feast stacks

FratresDec 1, 20151 votes

You didn't read what i wrote. Of course yasuo has hard counters, and you shouldn't have to play one of them to be able to have a shot at winning the lane. I want some advice for beating (or at least having a shot at) yasuo while playing neither a direct counter to him nor a champ directly countered by him, unless of course he counters 80% of the midlaners (which i now believe he does). In this regard you mainly quoted toplaners. As i said, a lot of top counter yasuo, but my problems are with yasuo mid, that prevents me from playing half my midlaners - i lose everytime to him, with a lot of different champs (i don't play annie cho diana malz viktor). I feel like those lanes are impossible to play most of the time.

Small parenthesis: putting kassadin in yasuo's counters is a joke. First, kass Q is blocked by windwall. Second, i'm main kassadin, and i've played this match up several times, and frankly, this is very litteraly the worst lane i've ever played.... Kassadin has no tools in his kit to beat yasuo, except that at 6 he has R to escape and try not to die. That's like the only thing he can do.

EndlessSorcererDec 1, 20151 votes

You don't have to play hard-counters to beat him. However, if you can't play against him without that advantage, then it wouldn't hurt to use them until you figure out how you can play against Yasuo without the crutch.

He isn't really an issue for many champions if you know how to adapt your playstyle and build-path, how when he is strong and vulnerable, and can capitalize on that knowledge.

Also, the matchup isn't nearly as bad as you seem to think it is.

Windwall blocking Kassadin's Q doesn't really matter. You are supposed to max E in the matchup since Yasuo is constantly using abilities (Q and E). You will likely max Q last if you are laning against Yasuo, so Windwall isn't really a concern.

SummonPotOfGreedNov 26, 20152 votes

I'll try to do my best to explain why, in my opinion, why Yasuo is op.

Passive: Yasuo's double crit passive makes it very easy to get 100% crit chance, this combined with overlords bloodlust make him, in 1v1's almost unbeatable. Granted he does do less damage with his crits, this can be solved with an IE.
Wind wall: His wind wall blocks all enemy projectiles, including AA's this means that only people with gap closers can get to him to fight him.
E, whatever its called: his e is on a cooldown most champions in URF don't ever reach, although he cant use it on the same person for a while, he does do increasing damage with each subsequent E. With it have no cool down, chasing an enemy running through a lane is far too easy, just e to every other minion until you can E the person you are chasing.
Ulti; Upon using this spell, you gain 50% armor penetration for 15 seconds, giving you the ability to destroy tanks and squishies alike. Also you can hit the entire team with this.
(this is situational) ease of ult: if yasuo is on a team with someone with a knockup, it is very easy to coordinate a knockup, especially with someone like malph who can hit an entire team.
the final and most important reason, no cost for spells: Having no cost for spells, combined with the short cooldowns gives yasuo the ability so spam his spells to no end; when up against a mana champion there is no way the enemy champion can out damage yasuo if he can dodge 25% of the skills thrown at him.

ShahamutNov 26, 20152 votes

Fair points, my comments on your points.

1: I think Crit is kind of a broken mechanic anyway. You don't need 100% crit chance to melt tanks and squishies alike, just more than 50%. I don't necessarily disagree with you on this point, but I think its crits, not the fact that he gets more of it. Thankfully, RIOT did nerf the passive overlords bloodlust so that he cant use it to sustain via minions anymore. Strong yes, but not as bad anymore.

2: Windwall is very strong, but the wall doesn't move and has a long cooldown. If you are at range, and he casts his wall, you CAN walk around it or stay at range where he also cant get you until it dissipates. Especially in lower elos, this move is EASILY baited and wasted. Strong, but not toxic in my opinion.

3: His dash, even with the increased damage, is not a huge damage threat past level 3. Yes, he can chase for days through waves, but it is as big of a weakness as it is a strength. He can't go backwards unless he leaves a minion behind. This is why it is important to control waves and gank him early, ESPECIALLY if he is aggressive, because he will leave himself deep with no escapes but flash, which has a long cooldown. Situationally, this is very strong. Not OP.

4: His ult only affects bonus armor, so it does little to nothing vs HP tanks and squishies as far as increasing his damage potential. It is also very situational, and unless he is dueling you 1v1, the use of the ult results in his death or in him simply trying to dash out as soon as he lands. Assuming you haven't fed the enemy Yasuo, his ult is usually not that impactful unless he has a wombo combo with someone else on the team. Frankly? I can think of some waaay harsher wombos than anything Yas has, and they are easier to do.

5: covered in 4 I guess.

6: Yasuo having no costs for his spells should not really surprise anyone. He isn't the first carry to be resourceless and probably won't be the last. I can understand this as a point of frustration though, because his lane can be really tough if you arent directly countering him. And since he can easily push waves with E/Q combo, having to spend resources just to keep up on waves is heartbreaking. Still, I'd rather be up against a Yasuo than a Vladimir. Thats just my personal opinion.

I played Yasuo to specifically to find out what beats him, and found that he is not only fun, but actually hard to do well. Once you know how to beat him though, it becomes pretty clear he is indeed frustrating, especially if he gets fed, but he is not OP in the least.

ZLbSwAR23INov 26, 20151 votes

A good few points made and a good few replies to those points. I don't think I could add much else in reply.

Red RyuNov 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'll try to do my best to explain why, in my opinion, why Yasuo is op.

Passive: Yasuo's double crit passive makes it very easy to get 100% crit chance, this combined with overlords bloodlust make him, in 1v1's almost unbeatable. Granted he does do less damage with his crits, this can be solved with an IE.

Wind wall: His wind wall blocks all enemy projectiles, including AA's this means that only people with gap closers can get to him to fight him.

E, whatever its called: his e is on a cooldown most champions in URF don't ever reach, although he cant use it on the same person for a while, he does do increasing damage with each subsequent E. With it have no cool down, chasing an enemy running through a lane is far too easy, just e to every other minion until you can E the person you are chasing.

Ulti; Upon using this spell, you gain 50% armor penetration for 15 seconds, giving you the ability to destroy tanks and squishies alike. Also you can hit the entire team with this.

(this is situational) ease of ult: if yasuo is on a team with someone with a knockup, it is very easy to coordinate a knockup, especially with someone like malph who can hit an entire team.

the final and most important reason, no cost for spells: Having no cost for spells, combined with the short cooldowns gives yasuo the ability so spam his spells to no end; when up against a mana champion there is no way the enemy champion can out damage yasuo if he can dodge 25% of the skills thrown at him.

Bonus armor pen not straight up armor pen.

That matters a lot.

ValexforNov 26, 20152 votes

Like a lot of us say: WINRATE IS FUCKING BS. It doesn't show if a champ is good or bad, in a lot of games you find 2 FUCKING YASUOS so if one wins, the other has to lose. Popular champs break winrates, the only real way to say if a champ is strong or not, is to look at his kit, see his numbers, do the math and compare with other champs with similiar mechanics.

I already did that math a lot of times, and Yasuo is OP. Numbers don't lie.

Do you ask why Yasuo is op?

He's got good sustained damage: his q has a fairly low cd and is a stronger, longer AA that applyes both crit AND on-hit;
Mobility creep: his e is incredibly strong, you can't fight Yasuo with more than 1 of you or he can dash 2 times with no cd, worst within a minion wave;
Windwall: no skill should TOTALLY block every projectile (not even Braum can do it since he still takes some damage and the cc), or at least it should block up to a certain number;
Double crit: that's just bs, he's got so many nefs just to make double crit barely tolerable, this should make you understand how much unhealthy this is;
Passive shield: it's not op per se, but combined with his windwall, his e and his damage, it becomes another tool to say: "Fuck you, I can do all the mistakes I want, I can't get punished!";
10-sec lasting stack on q that is to say: it's fucking 2.5 times it's CD, that' just too much! make them last 5-6 sec and they would be totally balanced and enough to do his shit as long as he's average at the game;
His ult has incredibly low cd, and I know it's situatinal, but there are far too many skills that can trigger it, and he has a sure-fire AoE knock-up in his kit (e + q) so the condition is so easily met that it's the equivalent of having enough mana to use it.
No resources: it would be ok if he didn't have already so much thing cramped in his kit, but with all these things, it is not acceptable;
Lane bully hypercarry: the very concept of lane bully is a champ that's strong in laning phase (usually his strongest poin is level 3) but becomes weak as the game progresses, and the concept of hypercarry is a champ that starts awful early and become unstoppable as game progresses. They are balanced thanks to this formula, but Yasuo starts off incredibly strong and becomes even stronger as game goes on.

If you actually want some math, reply to this post and I will provide to you all the math you want, and compare it to other champs with similiar specific mechanic (like similiar q, or W, or anything). I didn't downvote you because you seem actually open to discuss things.

ZLbSwAR23INov 26, 20151 votes

I'd appreciate it if you didn't burst into my thread effing and blinding all over the place. I've reported your post, hopefully you'll take it down a few notches in future. I do appreciate your attempt at explaining things though. I think you'll find answers to all of your points within this thread.

ValexforNov 26, 20152 votes

{quoted} If you're part of the downvote brigade, pay special attention to the following: Rather than downvoting and muttering "fucking Yasuo jumps in always kill me ffs", why not (and this is revolutionary, I know) EXPLAIN why he's OP? Because I've never actually seen someone give a good reason.

I only did what you asked: I explained why Yasuo is op in my opinion, those 9 points make him op in my opinion. I might have been a bit too harsh with my wording choice, but most of those are because most people don't seem to understand how winrates works and how easily misunderstood they can be, and I've already tried to explain that other times in a more civil way just to be ignored (because if you can't negate the evidence it's good enough to just ignore them, right?) and am a bit pissed off when I see the 100000000000th thread about Yasuo's winrate. And yes, some of those points (well all) have been answered, but I am not trying to bring new points, I am here to say for what reasons I find him op and if that's not what this thread is about, then I misunderstood the title, also if others think the same points make him op, then that just means they might actually be a problem. I don't want Yasuo to be unplayable, but I still don't want him to be op. I know I might've sounded harsh and I do apologize but I have some other threads where whatever fact I try to explain gets ignored and they just respond with "I am right" really...

ZLbSwAR23INov 26, 20151 votes

You didn't only do what I asked. You did what I asked in a very violent and aggressive manner. There's no 'may' about it, you were more than harsh with your 'wording choice'. Like I said, I really do appreciate your attempts at explaining why you think he's OP, but such language has absolutely no place here, regardless of how your explanations have been treated in the past.

ValexforNov 26, 20151 votes

That's why I apologized in my reply, I acknowledged the mistake and apologized, but editing the first message would be useless now that the damage is done, so I'll leave it like that as a reminder to not act like that.

YmrilNov 27, 20151 votes

I'd actually be interested in a real answer to the points he's raising. Also i'm sorry, but his message doesn't seem very violent or aggressive.... Just one or two "FCKIN" in his post, but it's not like he's insulting you or anyone else...

ZLbSwAR23INov 27, 20151 votes

As I said, I think you'll find the answers to all of his points throughout this thread.

Now, with regards to the nature of his message:

Why are you apologising? For having a different opinion?
You may not be easily offended, but others may be. Words may not offend you, but they may offend others. To you, his post was fine. To me, his post was not fine. Now he's already apologised and we've left it at that. Let's not bring it up again. I'd rather not read through the entire post again because of its coarse nature. You will find the answers to it throughout the thread.

YmrilNov 27, 20151 votes

You may not be easily offended, but others may be

Sure, you're right. But if you're offended by his message, you'll probably have a rough time on the internet (but i won't be the one giving it to you, mind me). But sure, the debate seems closed, no need to keep bringing it up, my bad.

EllaRyu69Nov 26, 20151 votes

yasuo mains....

and my riven is at a really low win-rate right now ;w;

Apex LiarNov 26, 20154 votes

{quoted}

yasuo mains....

and my riven is at a really low win-rate right now ;w;

Hate how people complain about champions being irrelevant or op. Katarina is by far my fav champ but she isn't the best pick right now. Don't see me complaining.

EllaRyu69Nov 26, 20151 votes

Kat is my fav champ also but they nerfed her before, but the DFT nerfs will hit her also ;w;

ohh i had my first penta on kat this month XD