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RiotJag voiced his opinions on how drastically Aatrox has been changed and...it's quite funny...

rtbf225618241··7 votes·2,838 views

> if you're reading this, you're probably one of the few players who put in the time to understand Aatrox's playstyle and master something few others wanted to. The problem is we don't believe marginal shifts in Aatrox's kit would be enough to make him a healthy character who more players are excited to play.

So, what, you'll turn him into Riven 2.0? You see the problem isn't that you changed him drastically, it's that you took away what made Aatrox, Aatrox. There is a part where you say this:

> Aatrox's basic-attack centric drain tank play pattern does not offer enough tactical variance or counterplay. He's one of the most stat-checky fighters in the game, and when he's strong he doesn't offer a whole lot of options for opponents to fight against him.

Tryndamere Warwick MasterYi Olaf Shyvana

https://i.imgur.com/mmejU8N.jpg

Hmmmmmm....

And yes, some of them have like 1 ability or a quick rotation like Shyvana to basically give them "flavor" when it's just a catalyst to help any of them basic attack better and faster, they're all just statcheckers. Tryndamere is the worst offender here, obviously. So don't tell me you don't endorse this kind of crap. Aatrox lost his basic attacking, duel-style fighting and was turned into a bruiser/juggernaut(?) who fights similarily to Riven. You can't make any other comparison really.

I'm only addressing the key thing in that post that i found ridiculous as he ends it with a footnote "sorry, but it is what it is cuz we really want this champ to be more popular so fuck you previous Aatrox"

Because i don't care if the say they care, i want them to show they mean it. How many times has Riot Game said "Sorry" and went on with their bullshit directions and "we know better" policies? I still remember when literally every Board was FLOODED with "Bring back SoloQ" threads and when Lee Sin basically belonged on a cross because of how OP he was for years. Do you think i don't remember the "sorry"-es that came after those problems were addressed?

You don't care about Aatrox. I don't want to be that guy, but this has to be the one time when you only care about money. He is as generic, bland and stupid of a character you could have made him from one that could rival Jhin and you fucked him up thoroughly. Even if i put the lore and the disgusting VO aside, his gameplay is...it's not Aatrox. If a veteran of the game came back during the next patch, that shit on the field would not bear any resemblance to Aatrox.

If you had changed him drastically but made him really serious, cohesive and gave his gameplay thematic enhancement in ways that i thought you would by holding a candle for the previous version of him, even a small candle...the amount of people that would be complaining about it would be the same as the amount of people who complained about Poppy's rework. None.

28 Comments

MetaVolca6 votes

Just wanted to say you shouldn't compare Aatrox to Yi and Trynd because they're also Tier 1 VGU territory.

rtbf2256182414 votes

I'll argue that Aatrox' kit should have had way lower priority than those two, supporting my point.

ReshiKillim6 votes

Aatrox is only currently in a good spot because of an item that's flat out abusive, and not because he got buffed or because his kit is good. Rageblade, which is heavily overtuned in what it offers, is what makes Aatrox currently strong, not his kit.

Before rageblade was reworked, Aatrox was one of the weakest toplaners of all. After it was reworked, he grew to become a strong and solid pick, because rageblade offered everything an Aatrox player could want, in one item.

When his kit was strong, he ruled over toplane due to outsustaining anyone and anything. Currently, rageblade just makes up for the deficiencies of his kit and the underlying problematic playstyle, and does a well enough job of it that it made him a viable pick in LCS.

Reformedfindlay1 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox is only currently in a good spot because of an item that's flat out abusive, and not because he got buffed or because his kit is good. Rageblade, which is heavily overtuned in what it offers, is what makes Aatrox currently strong, not his kit.

Before rageblade was reworked, Aatrox was one of the weakest toplaners of all. After it was reworked, he grew to become a strong and solid pick, because rageblade offered everything an Aatrox player could want, in one item.

When his kit was strong, he ruled over toplane due to outsustaining anyone and anything. Currently, rageblade just makes up for the deficiencies of his kit and the underlying problematic playstyle, and does a well enough job of it that it made him a viable pick in LCS.

"When his kit was strong, he ruled over toplane due to outsustaining anyone and anything. Currently, rageblade just makes up for the deficiencies of his kit and the underlying problematic playstyle, and does a well enough job of it that it made him a viable pick in LCS."

swap out top with JG and you get yi. Seriously, fuck that champion with rageblade.

rtbf2256182411 votes

Aatrox's kit has nothing to do with gimmicks. It can easily be balanced with simple number changes. I don't even know why you mention Rageblade to me. I just had an Aatrox without RB in my team and did just fine against Jax - one of his worst counters.

His kit has enough appeal in it, with obvious design flaws but that's what this rework should have addressed alone. His E and Q maybe. Not his entire damn kit. His W and R give him more options than the kits of the champions i listed above.

And in case you haven't noticed, they fixed Vladimir's extreme sustain problem by gating it behind successful skill-checking. Granted, his Q is not hard to hit but it requires proper footwork and timing to not walk into a suicidial engage.

I would give his abilities health costs to mitigate his ridiculous outsustaining if that's a problem. It would force his engages to be risky and extremely intense and rewarding. One of the best ways to emphasize skill is to put your life on the line. And for someone like a Diver, that is the prime fantasy here.

FlameHalbrdOkido2 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox's kit has nothing to do with gimmicks. It can easily be balanced with simple number changes. I don't even know why you mention Rageblade to me. I just had an Aatrox without RB in my team and did just fine against Jax - one of his worst counters.

His kit has enough appeal in it, with obvious design flaws but that's what this rework should have addressed alone. His E and Q maybe. Not his entire damn kit. His W and R give him more options than the kits of the champions i listed above.

even his W and R had issues tho, espcially W's ability to do something good for Aatrox in either form and R's AP ratio on what was mostly and AD champ. also enough with the Riven 2.0 meme thats just not the case.

Finally for a champion that was all about War being basic attack focused just isn't a good move, on top of being stat checky and always right clicking it means ur main source of dmg is focused on one target vs a whole team, and fighting against an entire other side is what War is about and thats what his new kit allows him to do.

And in case you haven't noticed, they fixed Vladimir's extreme sustain problem by gating it behind successful skill-checking. Granted, his Q is not hard to hit but it requires proper footwork and timing to not walk into a suicidial engage.

true the window of power was a good move.

I would give his abilities health costs to mitigate his ridiculous outsustaining if that's a problem. It would force his engages to be risky and extremely intense and rewarding. One of the best ways to emphasize skill is to put your life on the line. And for someone like a Diver, that is the prime fantasy here.

I think the health costs is another thing that they didn't like for him tho, i think that also made him unhealthy or unbalanced. Maybe when they figure out how to get it working they can put health costs on the next Darkin. But Aatrox is no longer a diver, he's more of a Jugger/Skirmisher now

rtbf2256182411 votes

even his W and R had issues tho, espcially W's ability to do something good for Aatrox in either form and R's AP ratio on what was mostly and AD champ. also enough with the Riven 2.0 meme thats just not the case.

But his W had a health cost on it and it wasn't particularily powerful when it only worked on every 3rd hit for a smaller lifesteal.

Even if that was a problem it's nothing more than some numbers tuning in conjunction with a smaller rework.

And it's not a meme that it's Riven 2.0, i thought about it for a bit and i honestly cannot find another champion that's main DPS comes from abilities while being AD. I mean the way he fights is extremely similar with AOE abilities that give him mobility as he dashes around. Fine, i'll stop mentioning Riven but it's not really a meme to me as i don't find any of this remotely funny.

Finally for a champion that was all about War being basic attack focused just isn't a good move, on top of being stat checky and always right clicking it means ur main source of dmg is focused on one target vs a whole team, and fighting against an entire other side is what War is about and thats what his new kit allows him to do.

I'm not sure how often you have seen Aatrox on the Rift or anywhere else but when i see him fighting like some kind of a Death Lord in the middle of 3 enemies, ripping the shit out of them with his LIVING lifesteal sword that actually looks the part as the giant banners flail around in blood, i generally tend to either stay the fuck away from him or if he's on my team, i'll go after the ones that would have followed my example, as the 3 guys who couldn't burst him are already as good as dead to me.

Tryndamere, Yi, Olaf and Shyvana follow the same patterns. None of them have lost a sliver of their thematic cohesion for the sake of it. Taric's a walking meme visually and he has a tragic lore like most champions. Jinx is a psychotic anime character but also has a tragic backstory. Mundo is literally retarded and on the comic relief level of Hodor, despite, like Hodor, having a fucked up backstory since he now tortures people in Zaun. Who decides where the "thematic cohesion" works best? Because i sure as hell seem to be seeing a pattern here. Have you heard what the reworked Aatrox sounds like? Have you heard what Rhaast sounds like?

By the way, are you telling me war is about fighting everyone at the same time? Did someone at Riot take this too literally like you just did? War is about strategy, skill, peace of mind on the grand scale. On the small scale, it is about being practical, smart and tactically cunning while inspiring loyalty in one way or another. Real soldiers don't go into battle with two swords and fight as many people they as can at once. They take each other out one by one. Only in fantasy stories will you hear tales of warriors who fought 10 shitheads at once and won.

Yes, this literally is a fantasy story but the logic here applies - Don't take it too literally. His kit doesn't even look that satisfying. They also took away his role as a Duelist so he could be a male Darkin Riven but he lacks that kind of speed and fluidity. He is basically held hostage by his abilities which constrain him to being a caster fighter.

They don't really know how to balance skirmishers as they are essentially Assassin/Juggernaut hybrids. Someone like Ekko is a nice example of this as he was more a Battle Mage than an Assassin on release. Champions like this always find new items to abuse.

When i look at Aatrox using his Q, he is not fluid. He locks himself within the casts, which is NOT what he ever was. The only thing that he had to stand around to wait for the ability to take effect was his R, momentarily as he drained in the blood of anyone close enough to him.

Needless to say, i will NOT allow this sack of shit to be played in my games. I don't care if someone picks him. First, they ruined my Janna and then they ruin one of the only champions that i really liked both visually and thematically, lore-wise. Now, he's a damn colourful and cheery cartoon villain with the "evil stereotype" pushed so far up his arse, his vocal cords suffer. His wings don't look worn or scary. He's like a 3D printed monster or something. What's next, they're gonna rework Ashe into a Watcher?

Anyway, this is too long so..

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

Mundo is literally retarded and on the comic relief level of Hodor, despite, like Hodor, having a fucked up backstory since he now tortures people in Zaun.

I just want to nitpick this; Mundo is not retarded and is a brilliant scientist fully capable of cohesive, eloquent speech. He can undo what hes done at any time - he just doesnt. He likes being what he is.

rtbf2256182411 votes

Or maybe we are too stupid to understand him.

Too bad this is not M&G.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

But his W had a health cost on it and it wasn't particularily powerful when it only worked on every 3rd hit for a smaller lifesteal.

Even if that was a problem it's nothing more than some numbers tuning in conjunction with a smaller rework.

And it's not a meme that it's Riven 2.0, i thought about it for a bit and i honestly cannot find another champion that's main DPS comes from abilities while being AD. I mean the way he fights is extremely similar with AOE abilities that give him mobility as he dashes around. Fine, i'll stop mentioning Riven but it's not really a meme to me as i don't find any of this remotely funny.

I'm not sure how often you have seen Aatrox on the Rift or anywhere else but when i see him fighting like some kind of a Death Lord in the middle of 3 enemies, ripping the shit out of them with his LIVING lifesteal sword that actually looks the part as the giant banners flail around in blood, i generally tend to either stay the fuck away from him or if he's on my team, i'll go after the ones that would have followed my example, as the 3 guys who couldn't burst him are already as good as dead to me.

Tryndamere, Yi, Olaf and Shyvana follow the same patterns. None of them have lost a sliver of their thematic cohesion for the sake of it. Taric's a walking meme visually and he has a tragic lore like most champions. Jinx is a psychotic anime character but also has a tragic backstory. Mundo is literally retarded and on the comic relief level of Hodor, despite, like Hodor, having a fucked up backstory since he now tortures people in Zaun. Who decides where the "thematic cohesion" works best? Because i sure as hell seem to be seeing a pattern here. Have you heard what the reworked Aatrox sounds like? Have you heard what Rhaast sounds like?

By the way, are you telling me war is about fighting everyone at the same time? Did someone at Riot take this too literally like you just did? War is about strategy, skill, peace of mind on the grand scale. On the small scale, it is about being practical, smart and tactically cunning while inspiring loyalty in one way or another. Real soldiers don't go into battle with two swords and fight as many people they as can at once. They take each other out one by one. Only in fantasy stories will you hear tales of warriors who fought 10 shitheads at once and won.

Yes, this literally is a fantasy story but the logic here applies - Don't take it too literally. His kit doesn't even look that satisfying. They also took away his role as a Duelist so he could be a male Darkin Riven but he lacks that kind of speed and fluidity. He is basically held hostage by his abilities which constrain him to being a caster fighter.

They don't really know how to balance skirmishers as they are essentially Assassin/Juggernaut hybrids. Someone like Ekko is a nice example of this as he was more a Battle Mage than an Assassin on release. Champions like this always find new items to abuse.

When i look at Aatrox using his Q, he is not fluid. He locks himself within the casts, which is NOT what he ever was. The only thing that he had to stand around to wait for the ability to take effect was his R, momentarily as he drained in the blood of anyone close enough to him.

ALso his old Q (he had to wait quite a while to hit the ground), which is what the new Q is imitating, it also locked him in place...WAIT A SEC!!! WTH! why is everyone complaining about the new Q being clunky when the old Q was JUST AS clunky if not MORE clunky because it held u in place for LONGER!

Yall got NO right to complain about ANYTHING with the new Q since its NOT ANY worse than the Old Q, even the 1st cast has about the same range, and since thats the case he doesnt have to put him self in immediate danger on the 1st Q after locking himself in place for a short duration.

Needless to say, i will NOT allow this sack of shit to be played in my games. I don't care if someone picks him. First, they ruined my Janna and then they ruin one of the only champions that i really liked both visually and thematically, lore-wise. Now, he's a damn colourful and cheery cartoon villain with the "evil stereotype" pushed so far up his arse, his vocal cords suffer. His wings don't look worn or scary. He's like a 3D printed monster or something. What's next, they're gonna rework Ashe into a Watcher?

Anyway, this is too long so..

rtbf2256182411 votes

Because the old Q felt really good to use. If you go back to see it, you'll notice how it doesn't clip into his walking animation after it ends like the new one does and it's literally something that allows you to SLAM into the enemy/enemies, really giving off that Darkin killer vibe because he is obviously not afraid of Death.

Yall got NO right to complain about ANYTHING with the new Q since its NOT ANY worse than the Old Q, even the 1st cast has about the same range, and since thats the case he doesnt have to put him self in immediate danger on the 1st Q after locking himself in place for a short duration.

Those abilities are nothing alike. You're saying him putting himself in danger is a bad thing? That's the point of playing someone like Aatrox! If you're someone who survives by draining the blood of your foes, would you stay away from your foes? Or would you jump into them and single-handedly slay them all? The new Q is something that will be mostly used for poke or cowardly trades because of how it has 3 parts now and all have some form of cc from afar.

And idk why you highlit the last paragraph.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

Because the old Q felt really good to use. If you go back to see it, you'll notice how it doesn't clip into his walking animation after it ends like the new one does and it's literally something that allows you to SLAM into the enemy/enemies, really giving off that Darkin killer vibe because he is obviously not afraid of Death.

Those abilities are nothing alike. You're saying him putting himself in danger is a bad thing? That's the point of playing someone like Aatrox! If you're someone who survives by draining the blood of your foes, would you stay away from your foes? Or would you jump into them and single-handedly slay them all? The new Q is something that will be mostly used for poke or cowardly trades because of how it has 3 parts now and all have some form of cc from afar.

And idk why you highlit the last paragraph.

Maybe players are split on how they feel about the old Q, while some may like it, others didn't, and some may like landing it on an enemy but didn't like the lock out time. Either way the lockout time was an issue that many players wish it didn't have especially when during the cast time and up time he was supposed to be unstoppable but that was never the case.

Ok so I grant that for Aatrox as a character he always wants to go in. For the new Q only the 1st cast has poke like range but that's can help him catch fleeing targets, and each cast reduces the range until it's like the old Q, the 1st 2 cast need to have more range than then next ones so he can labd each one and get closer so he can AA them.

rtbf2256182411 votes

Irelia is the only champion i know who can remain unconstrained from her abilities and dash around effortlessly. Aatrox is obviously not Irelia. I never had an issue with his Q because he wasn't locked into it after it had done it's job. It gave plenty of time to get a few free hits in an opponent the hopefully skilled Aatrox knocked up.

And if you need abilities that basically give the opponent a heads up, instead of shock-striking them, then there is something fundamentally wrong with the design philosophy here. The reason Riven is predictable most of the time, is because literally everyone knows that once she presses her Q once, she has 2 seconds to not waste it and she will not want to waste it. This ability works pretty much the same way, except it gives Aatrox cowardly trades and forces the opponent to not be able to fight back if he hits all the hard cc.

UnboundHades4 votes

anybody that says aatrox is riven 2.0 doesn't even deserve to voice their opinion on the topic for either side

rtbf2256182412 votes

Sorry, but it's been 20 years since those kinds of policies were in effect.

UnboundHades1 votes

what policy would that be?

if you are spreading lies because your lazy af and just skimmed over information you dont get to talk about it at all for either side whether you like the changes or hate them

Paroe2 votes

{quoted}

what policy would that be?

if you are spreading lies because your lazy af and just skimmed over information you dont get to talk about it at all for either side whether you like the changes or hate them

Deny. Deflect. Project.

At its core level: Passive on both is an auto attack steroid. Q on both is a combo-ability. W on both is some form of CC. E on both is a dash. R on both is a huge stat buff.

Theres differences sure... but new aatrox plays so much like riven. I wouldnt be surprised if his russian host is related to riven. especially since lore wise we know the watchers = daarkin, and old noxus was based around the warped daarkin ideals of strength.

UnboundHades2 votes

because im sick of bringing up these points im just gonna link you the post i made https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Ev98E4P2-aatrox-is-not-riven

also they dont play alike at all they feel completely different which is something you would only know if you either looked at both abilities and compared them and noticed that they dont work together in the same way and by actually playing him

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

because im sick of bringing up these points im just gonna link you the post i made https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Ev98E4P2-aatrox-is-not-riven

also they dont play alike at all they feel completely different which is something you would only know if you either looked at both abilities and compared them and noticed that they dont work together in the same way and by actually playing him

Have YOU actually played him? I have. A friend and i did custom 1v1s riven vs aatrox with both of us swapping off after a best of three. Gameplay is almost exactly the same with aatrox having better sustained damage and riven having much higher burst damage.

Theres subtle differences, but the feel of it and the general flow of gameplay is close enough to be identical.

UnboundHades1 votes

1v1s are not a place to test how champs perform in game because most if not all champs play exactly the same in a 1v1 settings along with it not going through the actual parts of the game such as laning its just a whoever can kill the other person first

come back after youve played a few games outside of 1v1s and aram

rtbf2256182411 votes

Policies to suppress opinions when you don't like them. You're literally a nobody on the internet to me and you think your "opinion" to tell me to shut up is just? Or what are you gonna do if i don't? Force me?

20 years ago, the Soviet Union collapsed. I won't get political about it but they had pretty hardcore policies in place to keep people shutting up about everything that was wrong with it.

I have watched Aatrox gameplay and i have seen others talk about him, Paroe here is practically speaking for me as a testimony for what i say. And you denying it is classic internet argumentation. When someone can verify their argument - just call them delusional, turn it on it's head by twisting the rules of verification (like how 1v1s do not equate to the actual game when half the lanes are duel lanes anyway) or resort to insults, avoiding the argument.

I've seen all 3 in use before, and you're currently going with the latter 2 right now.

UnboundHades1 votes

I'm not suppressing any opinion I'm just not calling it valid because you don't even know what your talking about seeing how you have yet to even play him. And don't give me that shit about how 1v1s work like normal games the only thing you do in a 1v1s is try to kill your opponent and nothing more due to not having to worry about anything past that point which leads to the same binary playstyle on basically every champ.also please show me how I was insulting or saying that he was delusional.

And one final thing you shouldn't be voicing your opinion on this because based on this comment you have just gone with the opinions of the people you have watched instead of forming your own which cuts off any meaningful discussion that could of been had

rtbf2256182412 votes

What? I mained Aatrox, he was one of my very first main champions. I know him better than you do. You think i've never picked him up inbetween when i used to main him and the present time? Why do i have to have superb mechanical knowledge to make assessments on a champion? I know what he is like, he doesn't change like day and night when you play him or when you see someone play him in your games.

And while it's true that in 1v1s, you don't have the same level of objective pressure on top of you it is also true that the argument is made here in regards to how Aatrox feels to play. Aatrox isn't a Heimerdinger turret. He does 1 thing and that is fighting, like almost every other champion in League. 1v1s are a good way to see how a champion interacts with an opponent, say a lane opponent. You think just because it's 1 person it's not valid? Why? What's so special about fighting 2 people? Or 3? The abilities' effects don't change.

And one final thing you shouldn't be voicing your opinion on this because based on this comment you have just gone with the opinions of the people you have watched instead of forming your own which cuts off any meaningful discussion that could of been had

Sure. You don't even know me and you're saying i don't know anything about this champion from experience. That's funny when i can say you have literally no way of telling when i say the contrary.

Krully3 votes

who cares if a champ isnt popular so long as a player base finds him fun to play

Aidra Foxx3 votes

This guy gets it he nails this issue spot on.. please can we start a petition to change him back. We found him fun and enjoyable before isn’t that the point of league? Not this nonsense... “lcs doesn’t play him so let’s change him” mentality they royally fucked up aatrox. I can’t/won’t stand for this.

rtbf2256182411 votes

I'm pretty much banning this abomination of a rework in every game that my team doesn't pick him.

That's right, i'll rather play against Shaco or Yi than this....insulting...thing.

MorganFreemanBot3 votes

So there are two important things which you're missing here. Both are super important.

'#1: Riot can't rework all champions at the same time.

This one is pretty simple, but your response of listing off other 'stat check' fighters makes it pretty clear you don't grasp it. Problems have to be tackled one at a time, and Aatrox is pretty much king of the stat-check in the current game.

'#2: Trynd and Yi aside, Aatrox relies significantly more on 'stat checking' than all of the fighters you listed.

Put succinctly, Warwick, Olaf, and Shyvana don't stat check as hard as Aatrox. They have stronger and easier to execute counter play, and they also have checks-and-balances which keep them in place.

Specifically:

Olaf doesn't actually enhance his own movement and is vulnerable to being locked down at range (which forces an ulti pop and wastes the steroid + immunity on gap closing, instead of sticking). A massive part of his damage also comes from a skillshot he has to pick up, meaning that kiting him away from it / avoiding it heavily mitigates his threat level.

Warwick profits from his enemies being stupid and over confident. Don't hang out at low health, don't have WW run you down at a million miles an hour. It's that simple. His stat checking, against full health targets, is actually pretty much non-existent.

Shyvana has absolutely no sustain and has to run at people (quickly, but not as quickly as WW). While she scales super hard it's not extraordinarily difficult to play keep away, and she's very vulnerable to lock down & in the early game.

The unfortunate reality is that Aatrox doesn't have any of those weaknesses. He has a ranged slow to help him close, as well as a decent range dash which comes with hard CC. His inbuilt sustain is out of this world. He doesn't have to land multiple skill shots for his stat check, he just autos you and pushes R. That's it. He also has a revive passive, to cap it all off.

I am not saying that current Aatrox is some god-mode champion with no weaknesses. He is not, by any means, that.

However the pointed reality is that current Aatrox is extremely close to old-school Warwick and XinZhao with how he functions. He just autos you to death, while healing for massive amounts, with no prerequisites or caveats. His only counter is a hard lock down or an immediate full-team focus fire, both of which he can work around with his revive passive.

His current design is unrecoverable. It has very little skill expression and, when we're honest about it, really nothing unique. "Dude who attacks fast and heals for a bunch" isn't unique or interesting.

FlameHalbrdOkido2 votes

{quoted}

So there are two important things which you're missing here. Both are super important.

'#1: Riot can't rework all champions at the same time.

This one is pretty simple, but your response of listing off other 'stat check' fighters makes it pretty clear you don't grasp it. Problems have to be tackled one at a time, and Aatrox is pretty much king of the stat-check in the current game.

'#2: Trynd and Yi aside, Aatrox relies significantly more on 'stat checking' than all of the fighters you listed.

Put succinctly, Warwick, Olaf, and Shyvana don't stat check as hard as Aatrox. They have stronger and easier to execute counter play, and they also have checks-and-balances which keep them in place.

Specifically:

Olaf doesn't actually enhance his own movement and is vulnerable to being locked down at range (which forces an ulti pop and wastes the steroid + immunity on gap closing, instead of sticking). A massive part of his damage also comes from a skillshot he has to pick up, meaning that kiting him away from it / avoiding it heavily mitigates his threat level.

Warwick profits from his enemies being stupid and over confident. Don't hang out at low health, don't have WW run you down at a million miles an hour. It's that simple. His stat checking, against full health targets, is actually pretty much non-existent.

Shyvana has absolutely no sustain and has to run at people (quickly, but not as quickly as WW). While she scales super hard it's not extraordinarily difficult to play keep away, and she's very vulnerable to lock down & in the early game.

The unfortunate reality is that Aatrox doesn't have any of those weaknesses. He has a ranged slow to help him close, as well as a decent range dash which comes with hard CC. His inbuilt sustain is out of this world. He doesn't have to land multiple skill shots for his stat check, he just autos you and pushes R. That's it. He also has a revive passive, to cap it all off.

I am not saying that current Aatrox is some god-mode champion with no weaknesses. He is not, by any means, that.

However the pointed reality is that current Aatrox is extremely close to old-school Warwick and XinZhao with how he functions. He just autos you to death, while healing for massive amounts, with no prerequisites or caveats. His only counter is a hard lock down or an immediate full-team focus fire, both of which he can work around with his revive passive.

His current design is unrecoverable. It has very little skill expression and, when we're honest about it, really nothing unique. "Dude who attacks fast and heals for a bunch" isn't unique or interesting.

agreed And Don't forget the the New WW's AA healing is gated behind his HP. unlike Aatrox WW has to be at a low HP lv to even start being a drain tank and healing with AA's they can't do the same thing with Aatrox because then people would say that Aatrox is just copying WW, and we already now how too many people started calling Aatrox Riven 2.0 when the similarity isnt even as stark as taking WW's low HP sustain would have been.

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