A Kindred Main's Perspective On How To Fix Them

Darkslayer85·Oct 8, 2016·14 votes·1,396 views

Kindred is not weak because they lack armor. Kindred is not weak because they lack attack speed. Kindred is not weak because they lack a heal. Kindred is not weak because they lack an early game kiting tool.

Kindred is weak because allies simply refuse to help them with marks. Let's say I'm invading for a mark. I go to collect it at raptors. I ping help, mid laner says nothing. Doesn't even ping me back.

So the enemy, let's say Amumu comes. I dodge his Q, and then the enemy mid laner arrives to help. I move my screen to his lane, he's casually farming with spells. So I keep asking for help. He doesn't move. I die. He immediately blames me for getting "caught out" and at this point I'm screwed.

Give allies 100-400 EXP for assisting with marks, scaling with level.

And if you're having doubts about my credibility, don't. https://s17.postimg.org/6wbquc7in/Kindred_Mastery.png

39 Comments

Sahn UzalOct 8, 201613 votes

Upvoted because ''them''

ViiLLAiNOct 8, 20168 votes

thats a low elo issue not a champ issue

Darkslayer85Oct 8, 20165 votes

Then Riot has to do something about it. People simply don't understand it at all.

ModWulf HelhammerOct 8, 20163 votes

They did, and it was the heal.

Frankly I think it would work if they gave it back and only had it work against champion. This would solve the "full health clear with no effort" problem as you would still need to kite well in the jungle to stay healthy, but it would also give the boost you need to actually go and fight for your marks.

TormentulaOct 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They did, and it was the heal.

Frankly I think it would work if they gave it back and only had it work against champion. This would solve the "full health clear with no effort" problem as you would still need to kite well in the jungle to stay healthy, but it would also give the boost you need to actually go and fight for your marks.

Give the heal back and basically let kindred take the entire enemy jungle and kill the jungler level 2 once again?

Yea no thank you.

Just because baron is in the pit doesn't mean you go for it.

So stop going for level 3 marks on the enemy razorbeaks when their katarina is pushing to your yasuo's tower. Thats not kindred being bronze tier, that's the player.

Kindred mains in a nutshell: "HOLY SHIT A MARK IS THERE, GOTTA GO GIT IT NAO LIEK DEE LCS PROS EEX DEE GEEGEE MID IS AFK!"

Like this is very stereotypical... but I can't say I know a "kindred main" from lower silv/bronze that preforms better than any casual gold player I've met that just played a game of kindred. She's not a bad champion, arguably she's still broken with her 54% winrate and currently rising pickrate, but the playerbase on her just feels clueless on what the champion their maining actually is. She's not a good champion to start with if you're still learning decision making.

I think lower elo kindred mains think they're playing shaco sometimes when they're really a kalista in the jungle trying to reach late game.

AstôlfoOct 8, 20162 votes

It'd help if you could actually read.

TormentulaOct 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It'd help if you could actually read.

I read and nothing changed.

It shouldn't work on champions it shouldn't work on jungle camps it shouldn't exist.

Darkslayer85Oct 17, 20161 votes

Actually as the Kindred main who wrote the OP, I agree with him. It shouldn't. It was flat out broken.

ModWulf HelhammerOct 8, 20161 votes

The problem is kindred scales almost entirely on their marks. You have shit damage without them, but you can't risk going to take them because a) you're squishy as hell, and b) you have aforementioned shit damage.

And did you miss the part where I said only on champions? This changes nothing about the clear as it is currently. It's just gives them the ability to actually go get their marks so that they actually can do something

TormentulaOct 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The problem is kindred scales almost entirely on their marks. You have shit damage without them, but you can't risk going to take them because a) you're squishy as hell, and b) you have aforementioned shit damage.

And did you miss the part where I said only on champions? This changes nothing about the clear as it is currently. It's just gives them the ability to actually go get their marks so that they actually can do something

idk what part in my post people didn't understand when I said they shouldn't heal perioid

I don't want them 1v1ing every jungler in the game with a heal with no counterplay to it. That heal is what made kindred stronger than every jungler in the game. Kiting the camps wasn't an issue for staying healthy in the game, but literally healing randomly in a skirmish was some of the most bullshit things for any jungler to deal with alongside the kiting. Nothing stopped a kindred from a level 2 invade and then just taking your whole jungle since they would just kill you or they're just jump away when the team did something about it.

AstôlfoOct 8, 20161 votes

Except you realized the difference is that they could continuously heal off the camps before said heal removal, meaning they'd almost always be at near full health if they ever decided to fight a jungler, who'd probably have less than full just from the early clears itself.

ModWulf HelhammerOct 8, 20161 votes

Actually, the problem was that they had the heal on top of being able to kite camps well, meaning that you couldn't contest because they were always healthy. In an actual fight you'd get one, maybe two heals (heavy emphasis on the maybe). That wasn't the issue. It was that kindred was always full health that was

Darkslayer85Oct 8, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Worst Spider NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jU8bXpF1,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-08T16:18:29.614+0000) Kindred mains in a nutshell: "HOLY SHIT A MARK IS THERE, GOTTA GO GIT IT NAO LIEK DEE LCS PROS EEX DEE GEEGEE MID IS AFK!"

Uh no. That's a first time Kindred.

I think lower elo kindred mains think they're playing shaco sometimes when they're really a kalista in the jungle trying to reach late game.

Do not stereotype.

TormentulaOct 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Uh no. That's a first time Kindred.

Do not stereotype.

As much as I don't mean to,

but sorry I know a lot of one trick kindreds that literally do that every 7/10 games. I don't consider it more stereotypical than a tilting riven, there is just a trend there.

My apologies for those good kindred mains out there, but every time I hear a kindred getting yelled at for getting caught out, well guess what, yea you got caught out not your mid laner's fault.

Darkslayer85Oct 8, 20161 votes

Well chill.

Dominick DestineOct 8, 20164 votes

She was greatly overpowered and deserved every single nerf.

AstôlfoOct 8, 20165 votes

The point of the thread -> . . . . . Your head.

Dominick DestineOct 8, 20163 votes

{quoted}

The point of the thread

Was irrelevant.

She was overpowered.

ModWulf HelhammerOct 8, 20162 votes

And at one point so was Xin. And Ashe. And Yi (twice)

Past state doesn't negate current

AstôlfoOct 8, 20164 votes

So what? That's why they got nerfed. That's not what this thread's about. Learn to read.

TormentulaOct 8, 20162 votes

Who cares about kindred having low elo team issues?

What about RekSai who only exist because of teammates?

Just don't go for marks in their jg, and if you do be sure to position, pull, and ward them to run when you see somebody coming.

Keep in mind you're kindred, even if its 40 minutes and you didn't get a mark in the early game you'll pick up random marks as the game goes on and eventually be the hyper carry marksmen.

Kindred is less about your teammates giving a shit and more about you making better decisions around them. If your mid laner does help you with marks and the mid+jg arrive, are you willing to risk losing that 2v2 and screwing your mid laner over? Don't put yourself and your teammates in danger for things that won't matter early on. Use good decision making and take note of things around the area "ok so i got blue buff, did amumu already finish his wolfs? Mid's laner is pushing so he is free to roam for me I shouldn't invade. Their top laner is a riven who can win the game off this first blood if she comes. Is the risk worth this reward or should I just take it easy and move on?"

I've had games where as kindred, I had 2 marks by 25 minutes simply because I never bothered for them knowing somebody already is there. Carried late game since every gank or teamfight I slowly caught up in marks.

You could climb elos as kindred literally never going for jungle camp marks, they're just icing on the cake and make your life easier if they're free. I think of the marks like I think of baron, its there if you really want it but it can cost more games than it can win.

Great MutaOct 8, 20162 votes

I've tried to make Kindred a thing this season but my issues are:

Any non-retarded enemy is going to see your hunt and go for it. You either go for it and risk it, or you lose it and end up more behind. The hunts should not be displayed to the enemy team. No one else has to deal with that hindrance. If you get caught, you are going to be far behind and will have a harder time invading for hunts. And the last 2-3 hunts are going to be Rift/Dragon/Baron, which all require teamwork.
A 12-0 Kindred is weaker than almost any other 12-0 jungler in the game because you can still be 1v1'd. 12-0 Shyvana? Games over. She will farm and bully everyone. 12-0 Yi? Penta coming. 12-0 Kindred? You will still have mana, AS, MS and general squishy issues.

It would be nice if team mates assisted with marks, but honestly, asking anyone to do anything in this game is a lost cause. While Riot preaches teamwork, solo carrying the game is actually the best way to win and progress. I can't be guaranteed a good team, but I know if I can keep my CS up and not feed, I will be the difference maker.

TormentulaOct 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jU8bXpF1,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-10-08T16:01:41.860+0000)

I've tried to make Kindred a thing this season but my issues are:

A 12-0 Kindred is weaker than almost any other 12-0 jungler in the game because you can still be 1v1'd. 12-0 Shyvana? Games over. She will farm and bully everyone. 12-0 Yi? Penta coming. 12-0 Kindred? You will still have mana, AS, MS and general squishy issues.

A 12-0 kindred is weaker than any other jungler...

12-0 yi? CC GG Yi pentas exist only in low silver and bronze 12-0 Shy? Armor pen, kiting, you're kindred you should be able to kite her around the map and you put a lot more gank/utility pressure for early-mid game, objectives, and teamfights.

If you're 12-0 as kindred you're basically a fed adc like kalista, jinx, or even lucian. You should hyper carry the game being unstoppable with positioning and proper marksmen mechanics. Do you know how to orb walk? Be honest cause it seems like a lot of kindreds don't and then they can't kite, but once they learn how to they see a huge difference.

If I see a 12-0 kindred with atleast 7 marks thats an FF@20 unless they get caught out every 5 seconds from there on.

Darkslayer85Oct 8, 20161 votes

Learn to kite and those issues are nonexistant. Watch my op.gg replays.

Great MutaOct 8, 20161 votes

Or, I can just beat you on raw stats with the rest of the junglers.

Darkslayer85Oct 8, 20161 votes

Or, you could be bronze and realize those are melee champions which are easily kitable.

Great MutaOct 8, 20161 votes

You are unranked.

Darkslayer85Oct 8, 20162 votes

I don't play ranked because my WiFi is unreliable.

Great MutaOct 8, 20162 votes

Sorry but norms don't count.

RivuoOct 8, 20162 votes

kindred will never be balanced because that ult she has

Skittles91kOct 8, 20162 votes

I also, am I level 7 Kindred main and I would definitely like to see people understand how Kindred works. I understand they're not the most popular champion but teammates should at least have an idea of how Kindred's ult and marks work, because a Kindred with Marks can carry a game. Sometimes I'll get people who know Kindred and will help me with marks and such. One of the most frustrating things is when my mark is baron and they start baron and don't wait for me (not only their jungler but someone who will benefit greatly from this Baron)

Copy MirrorOct 8, 20161 votes

I play Kindred ADC and even if people don't trust it Kindred ADC works as long as you have your support to back you up. Just mark the enemies who come bot 1 by one and stacking is never a problem I can go 20/0 sometimes like this. Kindred has become really team dependant just like Kalista it didn't used to be like that.

Karn BishopOct 8, 20161 votes

Few easy kindred changes

R: Champion marked as hunted do not get protected by R

Hunted champions allow kindred to deal bonus true damage on Q and auto attacks, with damage amount scaling from ult levels.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 8, 20161 votes

kindred winrate is 50%. whats the big fucking deal?

GULAG 4 UOct 8, 20161 votes

Why, where do you see that? Having a 50% winrate doesn't make a champion balanced.

SlashStrikerOct 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Why, where do you see that? Having a 50% winrate doesn't make a champion balanced.

Kindred has 50.6% win rate and 2.8% playrate

when is a champion balanced?

GULAG 4 UOct 9, 20161 votes

I'm asking for a source.

SlashStrikerOct 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm asking for a source.

Champion.gg

Nameless VoiceOct 8, 20161 votes

For me, it's the other way.

I'm the other jungler - the one who catches them at every hunted camp, pings constantly, and dies because most junglers can't duel them and none of my laners ever come.

Playing as or against Kindred in low-medium ranked is a game of lonely disappointment.