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Why do tank centered champions recently have really good base stats and base ability stats?

Weathered··1 votes·614 views

Before I start, this is more of a question than a complaint. Please explain things in detail if you are making comments :P

Tanks are supposed to soak up damage at the cost of not doing damage right? Damage comes from the damage outputters of the team. However it feels that all of the tank centered champions coming out Garen Darius Poppy Illaoi DrMundo (or are just viable right now) have good base stats on abilities that lets them do damage and tank at the same time.

Take poppy for example. I was in a lane against her as Jax. I was a kill ahead, 23 cs ahead, and had more items than her AND ignite. She had built full tank and even took armour quints. She wins against me in a 1v1, even though I am a duelist with an offense summoner spell and I'm ahead. No, she didnt outplay me, in fact I was outplaying her most of the time. Same with other champs like garen and illoai. The percent health and true damage on their kits was a good idea at the time to counter the tank meta, but now it's just being abused to be able to outscale damage dealers at most levels since these champions have the benefit of damage and tankiness. Can anyone elaborate?

On the plus side I've really started to enjoy hybrid Zac ^.^

(edit: Just making an observation that this post got a lot of great feedback and people are mostly being polite, but the other post I made about shaco asking some questions got a bunch of downvotes and people arguing because I guess people hate shaco xD)

27 Comments

DeathBurst4 votes

You have to differentiate between Tanks and heavy fighters (a.k.a. Juggernauts).

Both are hard to kill. Tanks have small to irrelevant damages* but lots of utility (generally, hard CC). Examples include Sejuani, Sion, Rammus, Amumu... On the other hand, Juggernauts have little utility but big damages. Garen has only a short mono-target silence, Darius a grab, Illaoi her Spirit Grab, Mundo his ranged poke.

Poppy is still new so I don't know, but I thought she was more on the Tank side, so I'm a bit surprised she out-damaged a Jax who was ahead.

So why are Juggernauts allowed to exist, with good defense AND good damage? Because it is supposed to be hard for them to deliver their damage. With only little utility and no range, they should not easily reach the important targets they want to kill (that's why they nerfed Garen tenacity on W, for instance, and I'm surprised that Mundo still has some).

*(Notice that Sejuani, Sion and Amumu all have a %health damage though. It's pretty inefficient against squishies, but it's relatively good against other tanks.)

ZLbSwAR23I2 votes

Agreed with everything.

Apart from Illaoi having short CC. She has an entire minute of CC in her E.

DeathBurst3 votes

It's not CC. You can attack, use your skills, move, see the map. Call that a DoT, if you really want to shoe-horn it in a pre-existing category, but it's definitely not a CC. (And well, I don't want to derail, but Tentacles are easy to avoid, and you can get rid of the debuff by destroying them just after they swing. They swing only once every 10 seconds, and you need to destroy 3 of them.)

Weathered1 votes

CC= Crowd Control, so I guess in a way it could be considered CC, but not in the sense of CC like how other champs have. Zoning perhaps a better word?

DeathBurst1 votes

Zoning definitely a better word, yes. And even at that, it's pretty weak zoning, with only one swing per tentacle every 10 seconds.

ZLbSwAR23I1 votes

It is absolutely CC and it's arguably the strongest CC in the game due to its duration and potential damage output.

DeathBurst1 votes

See, you yourself talk about damage output. It's no CC. It doesn't block any of your action, nor force you to take any action. And it's a way for Illaoi to deal even more damage, not to set up fights for her team.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Crowd_control

Weathered1 votes

I totally agree. And I do agree that they usually dont have a lot of big CC that traditional tank do. I was just confused on their ability to soak up damage while dealing damage, which is killer in lane and usually translates to late game pretty heavily. Also amumu acutally does a ton of damage. I've played a good amount of games with him and usually have most damage to champs simply because of sitting in the middle of fights crying xD

DeathBurst1 votes

{quoted}

I was just confused on their ability to soak up damage while dealing damage, which is killer in lane and usually translates to late game pretty heavily.

Well, I guess I answered that with the stuff about utility and delivery, right?

Also amumu acutally does a ton of damage. I've played a good amount of games with him and usually have most damage to champs simply because of sitting in the middle of fights crying xD

You deal high amount of damages to other tanks/juggs, so the total number is high, but unless you go for Liandry+Abyssal (and then you may not be as tanky as you need to be) you can't really kill a squishy by yourself.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

Because they have to be full melee range and not building last whisper

HalloweenDeath1 votes

[deleted]

Veraska2 votes

I would whole heartedly consider mundo a bruiser or juggernaut, considering he doesn't do what tanks do, tanks get beefy and set there teams up for kills, mundo gets beefy and just bulldozed the back line with his innate damage if he gets to them

HalloweenDeath1 votes

How did you reply to a comment I deleted almost instantly. I didn't think I provided anything with my post so I deleted it.

Veraska2 votes

You can't escape your mistakes

HalloweenDeath1 votes

What are you my son?

Veraska1 votes

I'm gonna take this comment with me to the gym, it'll burn in me while I work the bags

Weathered1 votes

Wat

Chaos6891 votes

Well after the juggernauts, mundo, poppy, and illai are jsut more juggernauts...also ILLAOI IS JUST BS EVERONE WHO EVER SAID ALLOW US ILLAOI DESERVES TO LAEN AGAINST HER

DeathBurst2 votes

Poppy is more of a True Tank, I think. And there are some other Juggernauts that weren't in the rework. Nasus is the archetype of the Juggernaut. Mundo is borderline, because he has heavy ranged poke, Renekton is borderline too, because of his double-dash that make him close to a Diver.

Shuriman Curator1 votes

{quoted}

Well after the juggernauts, mundo, poppy, and illai are jsut more juggernauts...also ILLAOI IS JUST BS EVERONE WHO EVER SAID ALLOW US ILLAOI DESERVES TO LAEN AGAINST HER

Laning against her isn't all too bad. Try playing Vladimir against her, its too easy.

Social Justice 11 votes

A champion that doesn't do considerable damage isn't good (besides most supports).

DeathBurst1 votes

Rammus? Sion? Malphite? Maokai? All of them, their damage is quite low compared to Garen/Darius/Mundo.... You'd say they are not good?

Social Justice 11 votes

{quoted}

Rammus? Sion? Malphite? Maokai? All of them, their damage is quite low compared to Garen/Darius/Mundo.... You'd say they are not good?

All of them still have sufficient damage, not to mention some of them scale with defenses

DeathBurst1 votes

It's definitely not their damage the most frightening part of their kit. They deal "sufficient" damage for what? And they are among the lowest damage dealer of the whole game, true utility supports excluded (and even there, I think Sona outdamage some of them).

BluePolarizer1 votes

So the whole point of a tank is that they're hard to kill yet you can't ignore them, since presumably you are smarter than a game AI from 2003 and you can right click enemy carries if someone with no damage and is hard to kill is right next to you.

DeathBurst2 votes

CC is as much, if not more, of a threat as damage. If you are Katarina, you can probably ignore Mundo, dive in, insta-kill their 2 carries then shunpo back out before Mundo can kills you. If there is a Rammus or a Shen or a Leona with his/her stun up, you'll never do that.

So no, you can't ignore tanks, even when they have no damage.

BluePolarizer1 votes

Rammus has amazing sustained damage. Shen can build bruiser. Leona is a support tank and is not expected to deal any damage, but has very respectable bases.

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