HOOOOOLY S***T THEY LISTENED!

Weathered·Dec 8, 2015·123 votes·9,594 views

UNITE!

From [email protected] PBE changes (nothing is final) Fiddlesticks Crowstorm (R) cooldown reduced to 130/120/110 from 150/140/130

AND

Enchantment: Runeglaive [Replaced by Enchantment: Runic Echoes]

Enchantment: Runic Echoes: 2450 Gold +60 Ability Power +10% Movement Speed

UNIQUE Passive - Echo: Gain charges upon moving or casting. At 100 charges, the next spell hit expends all charges to deal 80 (+10% of Ability Power) bonus magic damage to up to 4 targets on hit.

This effect deals 250% damage to Large Monsters. Hitting a Large Monster with this effect will restore 18% of your missing Mana.

(build path is Aether Wisp Amplifying Tome and your jungle item)

No longer will have to go without a jungle enchant, because now its not practically useless on him! Riot has answered our pleas!

185 Comments

Tik115Dec 8, 201535 votes

I mean thats great....

Mutter I just wish they would just make 2 different Runeglaives mutter

Seriously AD/AA junglers get 2 different items (Devourer, Warrior, lets face it Devourer is pretty much for AA/AD junglers like Shyvanna and Yi) But Tanks and AP champs only get one?

And Graves can't have a Cigar?

Inting PillowDec 9, 20152 votes

Why would you buy runeglaive? The new ludens jg item and lich bane>>>>>>>>>>>>>Runeglaive and normal ludens

bobsenbobDec 9, 20155 votes

Totally agree, this lowers the early damage of quite a few champs like diana, fizz, and ekko. It would be much better if they had both runeglaive and runic echo, runic echo for casters or poke ap junglers and runeglaive for spammy or assassin ap junglers

Twil1ght FadesDec 9, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Totally agree, this lowers the early damage of quite a few champs like diana, fizz, and ekko. It would be much better if they had both runeglaive and runic echo, runic echo for casters or poke ap junglers and runeglaive for spammy or assassin ap junglers

This is likely better for Diana as she really likes the extra AP and the move speed, plus her sheen synergy is iffy anyway since you don't space out her abilities for more than one sheen proc.

AnihakuDec 8, 201526 votes

On that lol........screwed us on a lot of other things.

BUT

Jungle fiddlesticks mains rejoice :D at least they listened to you guys. Woot!

DrCyanideDec 8, 201547 votes

I think they listened to the majority of people who wanted to play AP Junglers.

Nidalee SO NYAAADec 8, 201513 votes

I'm a Nidalee main and I'm very happy about this

D2VincentDec 8, 20157 votes

I'm a Karthus main, and while I'm sad they nerfed his W, I'm happy about the new enchant

kaltenashesDec 8, 20155 votes

i'm an Akali main and i'm very happy about this

AbyssphereDec 9, 20154 votes

{quoted}

i'm an Akali main and i'm very happy about this

I'm an Elise main and I'm... OK with this. As a vague Evelynn player, I'm less OK with this.

A Miss FortuneDec 9, 20152 votes

Why play AP Eve when you can play AD Eve.

AbyssphereDec 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rttGBrrT,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-09T00:59:25.857+0000)

Why play AP Eve when you can play AD Eve.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the return of AD Eve to be honest!

PrimaquariusDec 9, 20154 votes

AD hybrid Eve is better since Ive already been working on a build for her

Try this item 3931 item 3124 item 3071 item 3031 item 3078

A Miss FortuneDec 9, 20152 votes

AD Eve's always been stronger. Better clearing, lower build costs, her E's stupidly high attack speed buff and applying on-hit effects makes her blow up people with something like BoRK.

Still really curious why people ever played AP Eve, I tried it once and had 0 success.

kaltenashesDec 9, 20151 votes

i used to play tankinsh ap eve XD

item 1401 item 3116 item 3143

but someone said this build is way too horrible, so i stopped

A Miss FortuneDec 9, 20153 votes

item 1400 item 3153 item 3142 item 3143 item 3102 item 3800

Eve does pretty good as a Bruiser. I think the only reason why people even popularized AP over AD is because AP builds tend to have more defensive stats, so AP Eve gets damage + even more tankiness.

Troll for TrumpDec 9, 20153 votes

Basically it's good for caster and mage jglers, but semi nerfs champs like Ekko and Diana. So that's ,like, two champs who were good w/ runeglaive

kaltenashesDec 9, 20153 votes

i rather have the lich bane than runeglaive

KynamiDec 9, 20155 votes

This. Lich Bane has far better ratios. Not to mention the new jungle item has better AP 60 vs 40 and serves as a mini Luden's Echo. Not to mention the build path actually has a far better AP curve than the current Runeglaive considering that Sheen has no AP anymore.

Old Man TeetoDec 8, 201512 votes

I hope they don't remove Runeglaive entirely, plenty of AP junglers who would greatly prefer the sheen item over the Ludens item.

However, this is a step in a more "universally" good AP jungle item regardless.

AbyssphereDec 9, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I hope they don't remove Runeglaive entirely, plenty of AP junglers who would greatly prefer the sheen item over the Ludens item.

However, this is a step in a more "universally" good AP jungle item regardless.

As a matter of interest, what AP junglers do you think will suffer hugely from the loss of Runeglaive? The only one I can really think of is Evelynn, who is both excellent with Spellblade and poor with Luden's. To be honest, I imagine she'll go back to building Warrior or Cinderhulk again. But who's left aside from that? Nidalee and Diana both like Luden's and while Elise has never built it before, she uses it as well as anyone. Fiddle isn't amazing with Luden's but he's 100x better with that than with Spellblade. Random mages like Karthus will prefer the new item and jungle Twisted Fate will just replace the Luden's in his build with Lich Bane.

Who else is there?

AlamandDec 9, 20153 votes

From what i can remember, the champs who benefited from runeglave were ekko fizz, nidalee, elise, and diana. Though the new item probably wont nerf their damage, the burst in the jungle will have to make up for the lack of proc speed it has since runeglave proced every 1 second after the buffed auto and this one has to charge first.

WeatheredDec 9, 20153 votes

summoner 11 TwistedFate obviously

Beacon 0F LightDec 9, 20153 votes

You build jungle TF AD with Devourer anyway.

11 Herb N SpicesDec 9, 20157 votes

Any1 else noticing how whenever a new item comes in its basically static shiv -_-

Lazypeon100Dec 8, 20156 votes

I feel like Riot overall does a fairly good job as examining the information they got as well as listening to the community. Or at least better than some other companies I've seen.

gregbridgeDec 9, 20155 votes

I think its awesome Fiddle mains are finally getting a jungle item they can use.

But now it kind of sucks for other AP junglers because the runeglaive passive worked really well on them and they are already weak as is. :(

RIP: Nidalee Fizz Diana Ekko Elise

BoxOfDOGDec 9, 20159 votes

Diana, Nidalee and Elise I imagine will still be just fine in the meta.

But I don't really mind Ekko or Fizz not trudging around in the jungle, about to come out at a moment's notice to melt you.

Inting PillowDec 9, 20154 votes

this is better for lich bane junglers because now they can actually buy LICH BANE instead of using the crappy discount lich bane that was runeglaive

TeslabladeDec 8, 20154 votes

My jungle Ekko is now totally different, but Malzahar is better

RisenDarkKnightDec 8, 20154 votes

AD malzahar with Warrior is actually really good too. Voidlings let you clear really fast.

Spacesuit SpiffDec 9, 20154 votes

"Oh look this again except its ludens" but this does seem good. Im curious whether this and the new skin will lead to riot making nid a god tier jungler like last year... cant say id be in a hurry to come back to sr in that case

Autrah FangDec 9, 20154 votes

inb4 Runic Echoes gets nerfed ~~because of Ezreal~~ because too many AP champions are bringing smite into mid/top for an earlier power spike

Trias000Dec 9, 20154 votes

Why do they keep removing jungle enchants for mages? AD junglers can pick one of the three enchants, while mages are basicly limited to one all the time.

TotalJerkDec 8, 20153 votes

Let me know when the rework happens. This still doesn't change to fact that Fiddle is a clunky CC bot without his ult.

WeatheredDec 8, 20158 votes

I was able to carry most games without even upgrading my jungle item. You, my sir, need to learn how to play fidds.

TotalJerkDec 9, 20152 votes

Secondly there are people who "carry most games" with the most bottom tier characters if done in the right elo. The raw fact of the matter is

the cast times on everything makes his abilities easy to cancel/interrrupt while wasting precious seconds needed to get a full rotation
the tether range is terribly short
his range in general is god awful for such a squishy champion
the damage output of W is laughable
his E is slow and the damage output is heavily dependent on luck
his passive doesn't fucking exist
his ult is hard countered by erratic movement and not spending extended periods of time near walls

On that last point you COULD say that he simply has to predict people better, but in fighting games a character that's too heavily reliant on hard reads is considered gimmicky. Same thing for Fiddle, he's a huge gimmick and not legit main material at high levels. And then we have Olaf, Fiddlesticks is so free for Olaf that the moment he gets ahead Fiddle may as well not exist anymore.

Red RyuDec 9, 20153 votes

Well, Evelynn is gonna love 10% MS.

Inting PillowDec 9, 20156 votes

and now she can buy item 3100 instead of runeglaive

Lady HammerlockDec 9, 20153 votes

2 weeks later OMG FIDDLESTICKS IS OP GG NERF PLZ riot proceeds to gut him

NuyintoDec 9, 20153 votes

you do realize the jg item isnt even that great on fidd, right?

sure ap and ms is cool, but the passive is not as great as people make it sound for him

CitadelOfIceDec 9, 20153 votes

So we went from a min- item 3100 to a min- item 3285 ? I actually like that better, the two Ludens stack better then two Lich-banes effects do, and actually getting a meaningful amount of AP is awesome. I can see my JG Cho'gath having a mage option instead of just the cinder-hulk now.

Clockwork MouseDec 9, 20153 votes

And just maybe I can give my mid laner his blue buff instead of needing to have it to just get by.

TurquoiseYoshiDec 8, 20152 votes

inb4 Fiddles OP

But yeah, I like this new item. It looks good on pretty much everyone, including the champions gutted by the Magus removal or Sheen rework.

AnidanDec 8, 20151 votes

My only concern is how stupid this looks like it's going to be on Nidalee. 10% movespeed is a lot. And with a cheaper Luden's Echo effect, she's going to be really obnoxious after this item comes in, whether she's OP or not.

TurquoiseYoshiDec 8, 20153 votes

I've played a few matches of her since the Preseason started, and she honestly needed something. Her early clears were so abysmally slow and costly that she ended up terrible late.

And, to be fair, she was already impossible to catch, even on live, so it's not that different.

TransgressorDec 8, 20152 votes

So, could someone who's in the mood perhaps explain to me how this item is better than runeglave in terms of functionality, not raw stats? Because I don't get it. I mean, a proper analysis.

The way I see it, why would you take an AP stattik shiv over aoe-clear for the jungle, especially when you're melee? Keep in mind, I rarely jungle in general, and I haven't played a raw AP jungle for almost 2 years.

BluePolarizerDec 8, 20151 votes

This also has AOE. Also, AOE isn't the problem for AP junglers. There is not a single AP jungler that doesn't have AOE sufficient to clear. The problem was having no optimal items to build or running out of mana.

TransgressorDec 8, 20152 votes

IIRC, mana has always been an issue for AP junglers, which required them to cripple their builds which lead to them getting outscaled.

This still doesn't give any direct mana. As far as the item path goes, doesn't that mean Riot needs to address this problem directly instead of making a jungle AP stattik shiv/mini luden's?

BluePolarizerDec 8, 20154 votes

"This effect deals 250% damage to Large Monsters. Hitting a Large Monster with this effect will restore 18% of your missing Mana."