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Ahri has robbed Viktor of his passive

Potato Doc··8 votes·975 views

So I am currently in the process of finding some mid lane champions to play. Its one of my less diverse rolls seeing as before I only really played talon or mordekaiser as mid laners (im a top jungle main). I played an Aram game today and got Viktor as my champion. Had fun with him, I feel like hes one of the more unique champions and one of the higher skill required champions so I decided hey ill try him in a normals game, see how I do in a real game.

Then I faced Ahri. I cannot tell you how painfully obvious it was when I played against her the huge gap in power between them. Not only damage wise!(which even with more ap then her I did 1/2 her hp in the same time she took to 100-0 me (yes I hit all my abilities)

Not only did she have ridiculously higher damage numbers then me but I realized how she has all of viktors passive upgrades for free.

Viktor gets a 30% MS when he lands his Q, but he has to actually hit it, Ahri on the other hand gets an MS just for using it, its a skill shot. Not only that her Q ALSO has the upgrade buff of Viktors E but better,

Not only does it hit going in but it deals true damage on the return compared to victors after math explosion which deals 40% less damage to champs already hit. Ahri's Q doesnt even lose damage like caitlyn's Q or Ezreal's ult or Viktors E, or a whole slew of other champions.

the only difference that can be seen is the fact that viktors stun is AoE (which deals no damage) and Ahri's charm single target skill shot but deals damage and draws the person nearer. (and their ults but ults are a different idea)

So lets take a look at these now

For 0 gold Ahri gets both augmentations of both Viktors Q and E, all the while dealing more damage then he does, and not losing damage on her stun/taunt

For atleast 2k gold Viktor gets basically the same effect as Ahri's Q but with his E dealing reduced additional damage (and no true damage to boot) and he HAS to hit his Q for the MS buff

Im not one of the people in charge of champion design and balance. Ive never made a video game in my life. Maybe I am wrong (but who cares right because riot probably will never get around to this, and not a ton of people play viktor) but I am pretty sure that is just bad champion design having a champions passive completely engulfed into almost meaninglessness by a single ability of another champion (not to mention the huge difference in damage but im new to viktor so maybe i was just playing him wrong which is why im not making it a huge point, its more the passives that I want to deal with here)

I really feel like Viktor has a unique edge in terms of ability that could make him a really cool pick to see mid lane as a viable pick since his abilities probably offer the most interesting set of utility a mid laner has to offer, (most mid laners are extremely linear, such as ahri, cass, kass, zed, ect...) So could we not entirely invalidate this champion by giving another champion his passive for free?

But dude his passive gives him a free ap item. Yea the one passive that costs money to upgrade, and the upgrades are weaker versions of Ahri's Q, and if that isnt bad enough his passive is replaceable by another mage by simply buying a deathcap (or another if they already have one, and the final upgraded version of Viktors hexcore doesnt have the addition of added AP)

TL:DR Im new to viktor but its painfully obvious at how ahri has basically neutered Viktor since her Q is a better version of 2 of Viktors upgrades and a lot of other stuff

16 Comments

DrCyanide2 votes

I think you messed up somewhere.

Viktor isn't intended to be "the mobile mage", but "the mage who adapts".

I'm going out on a limb and assuming you tried to max your E first, then your Q. From personal experience, that's a bad choice against mobile targets. Maxing your Q first against Ahri would have given you a bigger shield to soak the damage she threw at you, as well as giving you a very powerful attack that she can't dodge. Add a Lich Bane in there and your simple harass is going to eat away about half of her health on a very short cooldown. Don't get me wrong, E is great for waveclear, but when you're up against a target that can avoid it easily and who wants to fight closer, Q is a far more powerful tool.

Another big difference between Viktor and Ahri is that Viktor is more of a teamfight mage, while Ahri wants to pick off one target if she can. Their abilities are both focused around this, with Viktor having more AoE damage and Ahri having more single target damage. A lot of Viktor's kill potential comes from landing his ultimate directly on target. If you slide it onto someone you're just going to be scratching them as oppose to actually hurting them.

Comparing Viktor's passive before the changes and after, after is so much better. You can look at his passive as "oh man, I have to spend 3000 gold to get my real passive" or you can look at it like "I get free AP / level, plus access to the best AP item in the game, plus my abilities get better each time I upgrade it, and my opponent has none of thee above". You've got one of the highest potential AP caps in the game thanks to your passive. It's not so bad as you're thinking.

Potato Doc1 votes

Ahri not being a team fight mage? uh so her Q being able to hit all targets equally, and a dash that allows her to skirt on the outside of the battle all while being able to fire spells off left and right doesnt make her a team fight mage?

As for your last paragraph, while the spending to upgrade your passive is unique thats what I am getting at, that "real" passive of upgraded skills you mentioned is what ahri has prepackaged in her Q. Which is my point. My point isnt about who could out fight who because as I said, im new to viktor so I wasnt so worried about the numbers and the abilities, its more the fact that Ahri is getting viktors enhanced Q for free all the while getting the added buff of Viktors enhanced E in the same spell, to add on to that she doesnt actually have to hit anything to get her movement speed buff

My post is about Viktors passive and how it becomes basically moot because another champion has its upgrades in one skill

Also AP caps =/= viable champion

PS im not an idiot. I can read ability damages just fine as to understand a general idea of how they are used

333lom1 votes

I think you're right. I main Viktor, but this is the first time I've come across this idea - you're right, Ahri has mobility and better damage on the return part of her Q, while Viktor gets those "effects" only after he spends 2000 gold. Looking concretely on those two effects. But maybe their overhaul kits make them equal, and not just Ahri better. Her Q takes more time to return, and Viktor has much more aoe /I'm not sure if Ahri's w can be considered aoe?) When in a fight, I have a feeling they're equal, so strategy is important. Ahri needs quick reflexes, and Viktor needs good positioning.

SouL1ess1 votes

Ahri's Q, when both parts hits, only deals as much damage as unaugmented death ray's damage. As long as Viktor's augmented death ray hits both parts, it outdamages Ahri's Q (not sure if true when factoring resistance, but at least raw damage is higher).

Otherwise, yes, Ahri Q gets a BETTER version of Viktor's augmented Q speed boost.

Potato Doc1 votes

That would be nice to say, except even when I still had more AP then ahri with my augmented ray, she still did more damage to me. I made sure to watch the damages of one hit from me and one hit from her on eachother

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I think Ahri's Q is the most obvious example of her current over-powered state (for statistical analysis see http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/tUqAWz6t-patch-52-tier-list-statistical-champion-ratings-and-analysis). Now she's basically uncatchable, and she already had incredible mobility with her ult (but at least with old Ahri, if you could force her to flee with her ult, you knew you'd be safe for awhile).

Darth Pixy Misa1 votes

For Viktor's immobility He needs more damage Both Ahri and Xerath do slightly more damage with q,w, and e, But Their ults do much more damage than Viktor's.

Potato Doc1 votes

My point really isnt the damage (well i guess alittle on Viktors E) since im still super new to Viktor and need to understand his damage more.

My point is the fact that Ahri esentially gets Viktors passive for free

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

rather more tankyness if he gets damage he will just 100 0 people and this will become his only role in the game if he survives he might see some better use

TheGamingWay1 votes

Ahri did more damage that your faster? Did you get the auto attack off after your q?

Potato Doc1 votes

of course, im not that stupid :P

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Viktor's problem is not Ahri. Ahri is good and all, but Ahri was balanced in the past, will be balanced in the future, and Viktor will remain sucky throughout without buffs.

Potato Doc3 votes

Okay you just didnt read anything I wrote >.>

Im saying Ahri stole his passive, she has it just in a better form without the cost. Its a game design flaw

SmokingPuffin2 votes

I read it, I just don't think it's a relevant comparison.

Viktor still sucks if Ahri doesn't exist. His design concepts are fine. It's the tuning that's wrong.

Potato Doc3 votes

It is entirely a relevant comparison when someones passive is entirely stolen as free passives on another champions ability. Viktor might as well not have a passive right now since most of the upgrades seem to be of low enough impact that they can be freely added onto a champion

Centuros1 votes

His passive also gives +3/4/5/6 AP per level, not to mention the flat AP and mana on the item you buy.

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