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Teemo Rework (compilation of ideas)

junglerboy16··11 votes·2,483 views

With the impending release of Omega Squad Teemo there has been a good deal of discussion about Teemo. Does he need a rework? Should he be a jungler? Does he just need buffs? And through it I've come to the conclusion that Teemo really does need a rework; nothing major, but a rework nonetheless.

My goals with this rework are to highlight his identity as a guerrilla fighter and highly trained special ops agent and assassin working under the Scouts of the Mothership division. Scout in this sense in no way means he is averse to killing or that he is just a reconnaissance soldier, and if you need further proof of this I would ask you to read his lore. After I detail my kit idea I will explain the reasoning behind it below

ALL NUMBERS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE

Stats: Unchanged.

Kit: Passive, Camouflage: If Teemo stands still for 2.5 seconds, he gains stealth for 4 seconds, constantly refreshing if he remains still. While stealthed, Teemo gains 15% movement speed. When Teemo breaks stealth (by attacking or the buff timing out) he gains 30/50/70% attack speed for 3 seconds. Scout's Knife bonus: Teemo stealths after only 1.5 seconds

Q, Blowgun/Scout's knife: Toggle: Teemo switches between his trusty dart gun and his more lethal melee dagger, with each granting special bonuses. Blowgun: Teemo has 500 range. His first attack against a large monster or enemy champion after switching to the dart gun gains 100 extra range and will deal bonus magic damage and blind them. Bonus damage: 70/110/150/190/230 (+70% AP). Blind: 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 seconds. Scout's Knife: Teemo loses 375 range (125 melee range), but gains 3/6/9/12/15 extra armor and mr, and extra effects from all of his other spells. 8 second cooldown. 40 mana.

W, Tactical Precision: Passive: Camouflage's bonus MS while stealthed increased to 20/25/30/35/40%. Active: for 6 seconds, Teemo enters a focused trance, allowing him to take reduced damage from his last target while restoring health and gaining movement speed on-hit. Damage reduction from primary target: 8/11/14/17/20%. Heal on-hit: 8/11/14/17/20 (+10% AP). MS on hit 16/22/28/34/40. 14 second cooldown. 50 mana. Scout's Knife bonus: increases effects by 50%

E, Jungle Toxins: Passive: Teemo poisons his weapons with deadly toxins from the Kumungu Jungle, dealing bonus magic damage on-hit as a 4 second DoT. Subsequent attacks only refresh the duration. Damage per second: 6/12/18/24/30 (+10% AP). Active: Teemo mixes his toxins together, enhancing the on-hit damage for 6 seconds, allowing the poison DoT to stack (max 4 stacks). 20/19/18/17/16 second cooldown. 60/65/70/75/80 mana. Scout's Knife bonus: While active, additionally deals 4% (+(1% AP)%) missing health as magic damage on-hit.

R, Noxious Trap: Passive: Teemo gains fresh charges of Noxious trap every 40/35/30 seconds, up to three charges. Every 500 units Teemo moves reduces the recharge timer by 1.5 seconds. Active: Teemo places a Mushroom trap at the target location that lasts for 10 minutes. After 1 second, the trap arms and becomes stealthed. When an enemy unit steps within 60 range, the trap detonates in a 200 unit AoE, slowing enemies and applying a 6 second magic damage DoT effect. If Teemo attacks an enemy marked with the DoT, it deals 100% of the DoT damage again instantly. The proc can only apply once per enemy, once per mushroom, and has a 12 second internal cooldown against the same target. Damage per second: 20/35/50 (+5% AP). Mark trigger damage: 120/210/300 (+30% AP). Scout's Knife bonus: Increases proc damage to 150% of DoT damage (180/315/450 (+45% AP)). 75 mana+1 charge. 1 second cooldown.

Problems with Teemo's current kit:

  • He has no sustain as an AP DPS champion.
  • His passive is very weak and relatively useless outside of cheesing your opponent.
  • His blind is anti-melee (toxic lane bully interaction).
  • W is very passive.
  • E is another powerful bullying tool that offers limited assassination but excessive annoyance.
  • R is extremely obnoxious for enemies but rarely translates into anything useful for Teemo, leaving it feeling unsatisfactory for you but plain annoying for you opponent.
  • His kit has no clear identity. Is he an assassin? A mage? A marksman?
  • His VO isn't cute anymore, just annoying.

How my rework dresses these problems:

  • New W provides healthy sustain for an AP DPS.
  • Passive is now core to his mind game pattern and has multiple uses outside of cheesing an enemy.
  • Blind now requires switching into a melee form for several seconds before switching back for the blind, meaning it requires good judgement (and limits his bullying+harassment power) but also allows for more unique plays from Teemo.
  • W now helps his ganking, while also providing him sustain, chasing power, and assassination safety in a 1v1.
  • E has reduced 1 hit trading strength, but in an assassination allows for higher DPS and total kill potential.
  • R is less annoying when stepped on, but if Teemo can capitalize on the trap he gains a useful assassination tool (less annoying for the enemy in question, but more useful for Teemo. Win-win situation).
  • He is now a well defined AP DPS assassin, who can rely on either bursting a target through high AP or DPSing them to death with a more on-hit build.
  • His VO is still annoying. Pls fix Rito.

I doubt this is perfect, but please leave any suggestions you have. Is the damage too high? Too low? Does it not address something you find annoying about Teemo? Does it add something that could make him more toxic (pun certainly intended)? Do you have any questions about what anything I wrote means (clarity FTW!)? Please leave a comment if you do.

21 Comments

Saianna5 votes

I have question not exactly on topic.. What happen that there are so many Teemo rework threads? Now more on topic: His Q has 2 abilities. Melee/ranged. How does he switch between them? He doesn't have ability "transform" like nida/Jayce/Elise.

Also what's so different with his passive? I don't really see the difference

And.. Isn't your rework just kinda huge buff for him? He gains alot of power with your idea.

Also there should be 1 more point "champion to rework NOT by CertainlT"

Mathbalnase5 votes

Teemo has sat unviable for years. These threads pop up occassionally from those who would like to change that. I do not know what, if anything, has caused the recent surge.

Q as proposed in the OP seems to be a toggle akin to the ults of the champs you mention. His ranged mode provides an on-next AA bonus, while his melee mode provides base stats and bonuses on his other abilities. This might be better moved to his Ult, and granted at lvl 1.

The Innate as proposed in the OP persist for a few seconds after moving again, as well as granting bonus MS in that time. Its bonus AS also scales (presumably with Teemo's level).

Teemo needs a kit rework - because his current form is 'toxic' - and then buffs - because, since he's considered 'toxic', he's also kept relatively underpowered. A rework resulting in buffs, if it reduces his kit's toxicity, is not a bad thing.

junglerboy161 votes

Teemo has a legendary skin on the PBE, which got a lot of people thinking about how he is really rather weak right now.

junglerboy161 votes

The reason everyone is talking about Teemo is that he has a legendary skin out on the PBE for him which made people start thinking about how they really need to rework him because he is rather pathetic but buffing him would be bad for the game.

Q works in the same way that Jinx's Q works, he is not switching "forms" he is switching weapons (Jinx has pow-pow and fishbones, Teemo would have blowgun and scout's knife). The difference with his passive is that he can stay stealthed for 4 second once he starts moving, where on live he only stays stealthed as long as he stands still. It would probably be a buff for him in a lot of ways, and it should be. He is intentionally kept under powered because he is anti-fun to play against, and once they fix that, he would be buffed again.

Definitely agree, don't let CertainlyT get to Teemo.

Saianna1 votes

Aaaaaah

Now his passive and Q make alot of sense!

But.. wouldn't that mean that if he gets +100 range + blind after swapping weapons, than won't it be kinda OP? Blind-q-q-blind-q-q-blind?

Edit: as long as teemo keeps his passive, blind dart, passive poison (e) and shrooms R with same/better dmg then i am happy

junglerboy161 votes

the plus 100 rang only applies to the blinding attack, so other than that one, he has 500 range while using the blowgun (same as live) additionally.

The toggle has a 6 second cooldown, so it would end up more like Q>AA(blind) wait 6 seconds, Q (melee mode) wait 6 seconds, Q>AA(blind) if you wanted to just switch for the blind. basically, he has to swap twice, and each time he swaps has a 6 second base cooldown. If anything, I'd consider reducing the cooldown to more like 4 seconds, for the same 8 seconds between darts, as well as reduce the cost a little.

Mathbalnase5 votes

I don't like all of the specific ideas expressed in the OP, but I do like the basic idea of getting Teemo a rework so he can be viable without immediately being nerfed..

khorney4 votes

Teemo is fine . he is very versatile. You probably build him the same way every time . I don't see a prob with him . I mean having some ad scaling on his q like tfs w would be what he needs

Saianna1 votes

I also don't see problems with current teemo... Maybe that little ball sniffer walking in river.. But that's something different that just teemos problem.

Passionlip2 votes

Welp, more than problems he feels... a bit clunky? I would like something like the Tristana mini-rework, personally.

Saianna1 votes

actually Tristana feels (alot) clunky right now.. Maybe it's because of her aa animation.. For teemo is perfectly fine, really.

junglerboy161 votes

I thought that too, and then I realized that her AA makes a literal "clunk" sound now.

mkman20083 votes

Teemo I used to live by a code

mkman20082 votes

Plagiarism much? http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/tWiP1YVE-teemo-theme-vs-gameplay

junglerboy163 votes

Nope, I have been working on this post since last night and just finished it a few minutes ago. These ideas are all original to me from another thread, and it is just as likely that that guy saw my comments there and decided to compile some ideas as well. No plagiarism occurred, whether intended or not, because I never even saw that thread until you linked it.

EDIT: Yeah, that actually looks like he took my idea from a couple days ago, as seen here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Eq5hlnIE-why-is-teemo-not-a-jungle-based-champion-think-about-it?comment=0009000000000000 in the comments that this post is responding to as well as my comment in response to him. If anyone plagiarized, it was the guy you linked, not me.

rampaging poet2 votes

I hardly looked at the actual numbers, but the idea sounds interesting. The improved passive alone is incredibly useful - no more just dumping AoE on Teemo's last known position to flush him out. I'm not sure how the form-changing aspect would play out because it reduces his weakness to being jumped on, and the upgraded stealth passive makes him harder to poke. The loss of Move Quick will make him easier to hit when he's not stealthed though.

Blinding targets when switching to the blowgun seems kind of clunky. On one hand, it maintains his ability to kite out of a bad situation by blinding his target and poking them as he runs. On the other, it reduces the effectiveness of the bind in ambush situations unless he manages to wait out the whole cooldown to switch back to the dagger for an ambush. As far as I can tell an ideal ambush for this Teemo is to plant a mushroom, stand on or near it invisibly, blind the target, then switch to dagger and carve them up. Then again, that's only a five second wait at max CDR and Teemo probably should have some trouble setting up a perfect ambush while he's being chased. Even eight seconds isn't that long if you've successfully predicted your enemy's movement.

I'm not sold on the wording of the DOT proc, but the general idea of Teemo hitting harder when someone walks right into his trap is intriguing. Another possibility that would help Teemo's whole team is giving a non-stacking Armor and/or MR shred effect for the duration of the DOT. That way it would still be only mildly annoying if you step on a random shroom in the middle of nowhere but would be harder to block the magic damage entirely and wouldn't need complicated wording about applying once per target per mushroom on a cooldown. Both burst-based and DPS Teemo builds could take advantage of reduced enemy defences without making DPS Teemo more bursty.

[EDIT: Armor shred would also make AD Teemo care about his mushrooms, possibly opening up additional viable build paths]

Something like this could turn Teemo into a true terror instead of a mild annoyance easily swatted by anyone with decent poke or all-in.

junglerboy162 votes

Yeah, the wording for the R Bonus damage proc is a little weird, I just wanted it to be extra clear that he can only get one proc off per mushroom, and saying once per champion is redundant with the internal cooldown, for sure. I'll edit that part. The idea of gaining the blind proc on first attack after switching does seem a little clunky and I'm not entirely thrilled with it, but you got the general idea of Shroom the map, get to the target who popped the shroom, and then carve them up before getting out. Blind always seemed more like a defensive spell to me, rather than an assassination tool, so I thought having it be on toggle to the ranged form was the best way to go, but it could probably use some reiteration.

Putting the blind on the toggle was supposed to make it more of a risk for Teemo, because in order to gain access to the blind again (one of his big harass tools that is partly why he is so toxic in lane), he has to make himself at least slightly open to enemy harass first by switching to melee. I could probably shorten the cooldown on it a bit, but I wanted it for that reason

Giving the Shrooms an armor/MR shred is a neat idea, but I feel that would make him a little too much of a generalist, when I'm trying to emphasize his role as an assassin. It isn't entirely out of the picture, just not my first choice of how to rejigger his bonus for actually fighting the enemy. Either way, the main goal is to make the shrooms themselves less impactful, but give Teemo more of a reward for being able to jump on a target and kill them (basically makes it more rewarding for Teemo, but less annoying for an enemy who hit one with nobody around).

rampaging poet2 votes

True, it would load his kit up pretty heavily given the rest of the changes you've proposed.

Passive: Stealth, MS, and AS steroid Q: Blind, Defence Steroid (at cost of range) W: Defence Steroid, MS Steroid, Sustain E: DOT, Execute (at cost of range) R: Vision Control, Ambushing Tool, Burst Damage [or my proposed armour shred]

Taking another look at W, it looks like the best move would be to switch to dagger mode, walk up to someone, and just keeping stabbing them until they die. He's impossible to shake without heavy CC for those few seconds (due to MS steroids), has enough AS to get max E stacks from his passive and one item, and can always switch back to dart mode and blind you if the engage goes bad or you're about to escape (via dsh or something). Rush Triforce for the AS and sticking power, dominate the lane as soon as you have it.

Also, late-game when W is maxed out the stealth movement speed is more then enough to make up for the time Teemo needs to stand still to trigger it in dagger mode. A perfectly-played level max-W Teemo is just as fast while perma-stealthed as well merely running. That's a numbers nitpick, but it makes him incredibly dangerous

As bad as the current "pokes you forever" Teemo is, I'd hate to fight "impossibly sticky invisible Teemo." If you don't know where he is, he will kill you unless you are right under your own turret. He'd be a nightmare in the jungle (which was the plan), but also incredibly frustrating to lane against. The only way that could work is if he's squishy enough (and his sustain from W low enough) that if he doesn't finish you in the 6-second window of his actives then he will die. That's reasonable for an assassin, but I don't know.

He's not a total generalist because he's still missing hard CC and instant gapclosers. You would pick Teemo when you intend to confuse, outflank, and ambush your enemy while other assassins have better initiation and ability to dive the backline in a teamfight. This kit gives him a little more than is strictly needed for an ambush--focused assassin (eg free defense stats AND cheap sustain), but it's all reasonably focused on his goal of sneaking into position and killing targets when they least expect it.

Your decision to apply bonus damage when Teemo attacks shroomed targets fits with your assassin-focused goal, and I respect that. I mostly proposed shredding defences to open up more build paths and give him a sliding scale between sustained damage in teamfights and ultra-damage to the unfortunate souls he stalks. Burst damage based on his AP and the low amount of attack speed he needs to build to max his E stacks from ambush (literally no attack speed items by level 18) heavily encourages a mage-like build with as much AP as he can get and maybe a Lich Bane for the MS and extra burst. Defence shredding cuts into his ability to burst people down, but lets him hit hard with AD, AP, or hybrid builds. All-burst builds would just be something like Luden's Echo, Lich Bane, Deathcap, Liandry's (for CC synergy), Sorcerer's Shoes, and round off with an AP defensive item or a Void Staff or something. That gives a lot of burst regardless of whether the shrooms deal extra damage or shred defenses.

If the utility increase from shredding defences is too much, another possibility would be to give Teemo a damage multiplier like the Havok mastery against marked targets. That would let Teemo deal the same damage without letting his whole team in on the action.

Thinking about it more, I feel the dagger transformation is unnecessary. Teemo is currently unique as the only Marksman/Assassin, and to me that's something that should be kept around. I like your idea of moving from cover to cover, but he shouldn't be trying to get close to his opponents. Ideally, the poison coursing through his enemies' veins does them in before they get close enough to strike back. Mixing it up in melee just isn't his style. I understand the idea was to make using his Q a little more risky and punish him for failed ambushes, but this kit loads too much into his dagger form to maintain his identity.

Without the dagger, is Q is just a blind. W is the same but with smaller numbers, or the numbers get tweaked. E loses its execute and may need higher damage, but honestly a DOT execute sounds pretty frustrating to fight against as well so that's no big loss. R loses some of its potential burst and may have room for my proposed shred/multiplier. His kit would be a little less overloaded, and he'd remain a focused assassin without being just another knife in the dark.

junglerboy161 votes

Yeah, I should probably redo W entirely, because that would make him rather over powered in a 1v1, which is good for assassination, but unhealthy for laning.

The dagger idea was something several people had had on another thread that I found interesting, but it isn't entirely necessary either (mostly because everyone was like "ERM MER GERSH OMEGA SQUAD TEEMO THROWS A KNIFE!"). The only real reason I wanted to use it is that it made toggling to use the blind have at least a small window of vulnerability to counterattack, but in combination with the W idea, I kind of nullified that risk entirely (not a good thing).

The E also must be pretty poorly worded, because the execute portion was not supposed to be DoT. I'll have another pass through the whole thing and fix some stuff up. The main things that I want to keep are the passive change, R change in some form (low initial damage that requires actual followup to be dangerous), and some sort of built in health sustain in his kit (because that is the biggest thing holding AP DPS back, they need self sustain since they can't really lifesteal). I'll need to figure out how to redo the blind to make it less toxic in a lane matchup, and probably figure out how to give him sustain without making him even more of a bully.

rampaging poet1 votes

Either you've edited E to clarify or I missed the trailing "on-hit" when I first read it. Either way it looks good now. If the dagger idea gets kept, it gives him an execute and incentivizes building AS instead of pure AP. The low-ratio sustain on W probably helps with that too, though I'd have to run the numbers to see when extra AS helps that over more AP. That's just a numbers tweak if it ends up going the wrong way though.

I definitely agree with the core idea of buffing his passive, giving him some sustain so he can jungle a bit better, and making his shrooms feel better for him.

DreamReaper1232 votes

I love these ideas. He could probably jungle with these changes too (I play teemo jungle and it's terrible right now, all you can do is try to counterjungle with passive).

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