Akali has 100 less range on R, Zed has less AS (makes sense since they said they didn't want him eating towers, idk how much of a difference it'll make elsewhere). Kinda surprised there aren't already 50 threads about this.
Leblancs Boob18 votesThe Akali nerf seems fair and justified. Zed however needs** WAY** more before he's finally balanced
Solaxo8 votesThe Akali nerf seems fair and justified. Zed however needs** WAY** more before he's finally balanced
He needs changes, not nerfs. And mana casters need their mana regen back
Beast of Legends2 votesExactly. Mana regen buffs and AP buffs would solve this well.
Then lower Zed's MR to 0 and give him 0.01 AS and make his spells all W's so all he can do is jump around.
Scale AA by 10% and give him only two item slots. Make MS 10 and make his passive whenever he casts a spell, all other spells reset.
Keevalroy12 votesAkali has 100 less range on R
As an Akali player, I don't mind this. 800 was a rather large range to jump.
As for Zed, that's hardly a slap on the wrist - that's more of a wag of the finger to him.
Hawkefire1 votesToo be fair, the nerf doesn't accomplish the core issue related to that ability however (IE that it is a targeted gap close that can be used multiple times with a fairly meaningless cooldown).
Their idea of the nerf was to "entice players to stay out of her range once she has her ultimate" which is exactly what her current counterplay is....except that isn't really counterplay. In fact, it denies lane interaction instead of promoting it, which I find is simply unhealthy for the game.
oxygen bandit2 votesToo be fair, the nerf doesn't accomplish the core issue related to that ability however (IE that it is a targeted gap close that can be used multiple times with a fairly meaningless cooldown).
Their idea of the nerf was to "entice players to stay out of her range once she has her ultimate" which is exactly what her current counterplay is....except that isn't really counterplay. In fact, it denies lane interaction instead of promoting it, which I find is simply unhealthy for the game.
do you also feel that taric's stun is anti-counterplay unfun toxic unhealthy uninteresting design paradigm and choices?
DoraTheBrown9 votes100 range is leik so much and zed is totally not a caster
Pika3107 votesYou call THAT a nerf?
That ain't a nerf.
**THIS **is a nerf:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/champion-update/sona-maven-of-the-strings
soliznoel5 votesAkali has always been balanced IMO, at least for as long as i've been playing this game, which is about 8 months. Her play style isn't that safe compared to zed because he has a sure escape. The reason akali has so much sustain is because she is very liable to blow up in team fights, so she needs it to dive carries.
Kuroi863 votesThe range nerf doesn't sound very surprising, think they mentioned wanting to do that a while back.
The AS nerf seems a tad weak though, especially for someone who typically gets Bork.
Lucky Koopa3 votesI said this elsewhere, but this is a "gateway nerf" to Zed. This is like what they did after Yasuo first came out.
Obviously, as you pointed out, this was meant to target his ability to maul towers, but it does hit his lategame a little.
He relies on autos to get kills, being that Zed's primary item is 
, it isn't surprising they're hitting the best duelist assassin in the stat that helps him the most. But like I said, "Gateway Nerf." There is likely something else on the way.
This is what I think may be on the way for 
. What do you think?
Hard Penetrator2 votesWhat would happen if we took energy regen from blue buff? I think he is pretty much only energy user that loves to have blue.
Jambat3 votes[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=isLicJcA,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-01-21T00:23:29.696+0000)
What would happen if we took energy regen from blue buff? I think he is pretty much only energy user that loves to have blue.
Basically all energy users really love to have it, but Zed/Lee Sin/Akali are the only ones who can kind of talk people into not freaking out if they have it.
Honestly, I don't think Zed needs a lot of stat tweaks, just change the energy costs of his moves so they feel important on a hit or miss. Look at Shen to see how high energy costs can cripple a champion, and how someone like Lee Sin who is all 30-50 costs can just spam away with very little cares in the world.
xl Kirito lx1 votesThat gateway nerf concept you were talking about? It's happened before -- Lee Sin. Minor changes to HP regen, and the biggest being the removal of his AS slow on his E. Yet, he's still king of the jungle without any opposition. Just as Zeds destined to be king of mid lane, and possibly top.
Duchess of Deer1 voteswith how top laners are shifting away from assassins and bruisers to tanks i can safely say zed won't be able to hold up top
Lucky Koopa2 votesThat gateway nerf concept you were talking about? It's happened before -- Lee Sin. Minor changes to HP regen, and the biggest being the removal of his AS slow on his E. Yet, he's still king of the jungle without any opposition. Just as Zeds destined to be king of mid lane, and possibly top.
That isn't really a gateway nerf. Because there was nothing else to follow it up. There was just the removal of the AS Debuff, and one other minor thing. And that was it. Gateway Nerfs lead the charge to a champ either coming down a few ticks, but still being decent or one falling off the map all together in a short span of time. Not like 
who faced changes for a year-and-a-half.
An example of each side of this concept that come to mind:
: Not the king of mid lane like he once was, but still capable in the right hands. You could also bring up 
or 
(Not the king/queen of their role, but can still put up against most competition)
: King of the jungle...nerfed into obscurity...Although I hear he's making a re-emergence. Items aren't safe as well, Feral Flare comes to mind.
xl Kirito lx3 votesI misspoke. I was implying that the nerfs on Lee Sin were gateway nerfs in the sense that the player base expected more nerfs to follow it, or at least a rebalancing of his kit. You are completely correct, it wasn't a gateway nerf like some people wanted, it was a slap on the wrists.
PentaJump3 votesAs an Akali player.. lol. The other assassins lost DFG, Ahri and Kat and AP Trist are getting trashed. I expected way more than a 100 range nerf.
Keevalroy12 voteslol. The other assassins lost DFG, Ahri getting trashed.
Oh but didn't you hear? Riot said those Ahri changes are actually buffs. Ya know, because they said so.
If those are called buffs then the Black Plague was a bodily restoration condition.
Subject 52 votesI laughed so hard. I'm like still laughing. LOL
stealthfox941 votesThey're a pretty direct buff to mage Ahri.
Keevalroy1 votesThey're a pretty direct buff to mage Ahri.
Yes, but who in their right minds plays mage Ahri? Anyone who doesn't build or play her as an assassin is sacrificing a lot of raw power.
stealthfox941 votesWell I preferred it when mage Ahri was viable, I feel like she's just land charm and insta kill now.
Sightless666 votesChampions have been killed by less. Range nerfs can be a lot harsher than they look. I'm perfectly happy taking it slow whenever range nerfs get involved.
Pika3105 votesIt's true, a Rioter did say when it comes to range changes, they never take them lightly and would never make any major ones.
Of course, that was on a Sona thread and somebody immediately pointed out her range was nerfed by 650 units, a full 65% nerf. So Akali having hers reduced by 12.5% on 1 ability is a complete joke, in comparison. That's less than a 5th of what Sona lost on each of 3 different spells.
doubleguac3 votesJesus christ this Sona circlejerk needs to end. It's started spilling into completely unrelated threads now.
I'm sorry you didn't like her rework, but please stop pretending she's been olaf'd. From a balance perspective, she's fine.
Emmy Cha0s4 votesI'm sorry that you believe Earth is flat, but truth be told it's more like she's been Eve'd. I've been hearing rumors lately that players get reported just for picking Sona.
If being nerfed 17 times initially and 4 additional times is "fine," then I'm grateful we don't have somebody like you working for Riot. They're already doing a good enough job killing this game already.
doubleguac5 votesEve: 2.23% pick rate, 45% win rate Olaf: 3.6% pick rate, 46.7% win rate
Sona: 8.51% pick rate, 52% win rate
Obviously win rate isn't everything, but a champion who has been gutted to unplayable levels doesn't have a healthy pick rate and the 25th highest win rate in the game. People keep saying, "she's been gutted! She's unplayable," but I see absolutely no evidence of this. I don't think she's a top tier pick, but there are so many champions who are in a much worse place than her right now.
Comparing her to other supports, she has:
-a comparable pick rate and higher win rate than zyra -a comparable pick and higher win rate than nami -a higher pick and win rate than soraka -a higher pick and win rate than lulu -a comparable pick rate and much higher win rate than alistar (over 8% higher) -a higher pick and win rate than zilean
I'm sorry that you believe Earth is flat
Or maybe you are just vastly underestimating her current power level because you've been sucked into the Sona echo chamber on the forums. Seriously, show me any hard evidence that she's legitimately unviable as a solo queue pick.
Emmy Cha0s4 votesbut I see absolutely no evidence of this.
Because you're narrow-mindedly worshiping Riot and intentionally blinding yourself to all facts that prove they aren't the omnipresent gods you believe them to be. The hard proof has been in every last thread, both mathematical and practical evidence.
Seriously, show me any hard evidence that she's legitimately unviable as a solo queue pick.
Again? You mean nth times weren't enough? Honestly, I'm not certain how much evidence it's going to take you purposefully blinding yourself to before you even begin considering Earth isn't flat. Frankly, it's a waste of time since you've already made it painfully clear you're content in remaining a sheep.
doubleguac2 votesYou're just spouting a bunch of insults at me.
narrow-mindedly worshiping Riot and intentionally blinding yourself to all facts
I haven't mentioned Riot once.
The fact is that Sona has a high pick and a high win rate, indicating a lot of people are playing her, and for the most part they are doing above average with her. The fact is that Sona has a higher pick rate than most supports, and a higher win rate than all but three supports (blitzcrank, janna, and leona). Those are the facts.
I'm not certain how much evidence it's going to take you purposefully blinding yourself
Again, you haven't given me evidence. All you've said is that a bunch of people are complaining about her in a big Sona thread. Big whoop.
Again, I'm not saying Sona is top tier. I'm not saying that every balance change Riot made to Sona was necessary or well thought out. All I'm saying is that the champions who are actually in severe need of buffs don't have 53% win rates, and aren't played in almost 10% of games.
Emmy Cha0s4 votesEarth: Prove that it is Round
Three arguments come to mind. All of these date back to Greek times or earlier.
During lunar eclipses, the projected shadow of the earth on the moon is always round. If the earth were flat, then this projection will not always be circular (it could degenerate to a line!). But this is never observed, regardless of the time of the lunar eclipse. Aristotle (384-322 BCE) wrote about this. The third point, below, is also credited to Aristotle.
Eratosthanes (276-195(?) BCE) did a famous experiment on measuring the angle of the sun at noon in Alexandria, Egypt, and in Syrene. Finding the difference in the angles and knowing the distance between the two points, the circumference can be calculated. He calculated the circumference in stadia, which we do not know the conversion to our present day measure.
If you travel north or south a signigicant distance, you will see a different set of stars at night. This will not happen on a flat surface.
Fruitlewp1 votesYou're a tit, lol. Don't waste any more of your time, Doubleguac. Not worth the energy.
1st HanarSpectre1 votesAs an Akali player.. lol. The other assassins lost DFG, Ahri and Kat and AP Trist are getting trashed. I expected way more than a 100 range nerf.
Crescent slash also no longer detonates mark of the assassin. Just like old time.
asktiks3 votesLMFAO!
CALLED IT! knew he was just gonna get a slap in the wrist
akali = gutted but to be fair the amount of peeps complaining about her guess she needs it, but pretty much knew zed wasn't gonna get much in the way of nerfs lol lee sin 2.0
Final Raid Boss2 voteslol how riot thinks all akali needs is a 100 range nerf, who runs this balance dpt seriously
Keevalroy2 votes[{quoted}](name=Final Raid Boss,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=isLicJcA,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2015-01-21T07:44:55.435+0000)
lol how riot thinks all akali needs is a 100 range nerf, who runs this balance dpt seriously
Crack heads, but as of right now her E no longer procs her Q mark, so she did get more than just the range nerf.
Raja Chachki1 votesJust wait, if more nerfs are needed, she will receive them(because she isn't a Rito Favorite(Zed/Lee). So be patient youngling, this nerf may be all you ever imagined.
MotherChurch2 votesComing from HoN, point and click abilities do not bother me.
windwolf7771 votesDotA player here. I feel the same.
Junkο2 votesAs a Zed main i seriously don't get why they are touching his AS. It literally means NOTHING on him.
"But he is gonna be weaker at splitpushing"
Yeah no, Zed splitpushing is strong because of his waveclear and the AS he gets from Youmuu, and Botkr gives AS too.
If Zed needs nerfs, it's not in the places Riot is nerfing him.
futuresight231 votes[{quoted}](name=Rainbowe Dash,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=isLicJcA,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2015-01-21T18:18:06.664+0000)
As a Zed main i seriously don't get why they are touching his AS. It literally means NOTHING on him.
"But he is gonna be weaker at splitpushing"
Yeah no, Zed splitpushing is strong because of his waveclear and the AS he gets from Youmuu, and Botkr gives AS too.
If Zed needs nerfs, it's not in the places Riot is nerfing him.
It will slow down the time it takes Zed to kill a tower which is part of the criteria on which a splitpusher is graded. Having a lower base attack speed gain per level will actually also reduce the attack speed that he ends up getting from BoRK and Youmuu's.
Having said that, I don't think that is the only nerf on the docket for Zed.
Junkο1 votesRiot could have easily removed the W passive (why does it even exist?) to fix his waveclear, tower killing and burst issues at the same time so he doesn't do all of them so well at a really small amount of AD
Linkttp2 votesAkali was actually severely affected by these nerfs. Because her E no longer procs her Q her early game has gone from bad to abysmal. It removed her burst combo, increasing the time it took to use it by 1-2 based on attack speed seconds. (Yes that IS a major problem for assassins). If your enemy has at least 40 movement speed more than you and you have not bought attack speed They can literally walk away after getting ulted without her being able to proc it. With her ults range reduced flashing from melee range away puts you outside of her ults range. If they wanted to nerf Akali they should have done it to her spell vamp, not take away her the critical parts of her kit.
dim2a1 votesI like both nerfs a lot. Akali is pretty much ban-or-pick at my ELO (low gold), and while I don't think nerf is enough to change it, it might help a bit for those time when opponents get her. I'd rather see under-nerf than over-nerf, so if OP champion (at my ELO it's akali and fizz) becomes one of a few powerful ones but less OP it's a Very Good Thing. Same with Zed, it doesn't touch his core competency (blowing up one target), but does help him be a bit less good overall, which help compensate. I'd love to see a 100 range nerf on zed's R instead to increase counterplay (give a bit more chance for a tank to protect their carry before zed deletes them), but I'll take what I can, am happy to see these changes.
Am really hoping to see a similar fizz nerf, he's ban-or-pick at low gold, which hurts game -- I don't want to see him nerfed into the ground, but just something to make not banning him viable.
Blainezy1 votesThe Zed nerf is practically meaningless.. The akali one is much of anything either with her movement speed still to compensate
ìnsane1 votesDoes this mean she cant r to dragon or baron anymore from the other side of the wall?
this bothered me even as someone that played diana (who btw can only dash to baron from a specific angle to baron iirc unless its changed now after the sr map remake) alot more than akali, but dam
NinjaFifer1 votesLargest upvoted post on main page right now.
