Petition to replace support players with bots that can:

Spacesuit Spiff·Apr 8, 2015·208 votes·7,660 views

-1v2 at all stages of the game while the adc farms -keep the entire map warded without ever going more than 5 steps away from the adc, who will die otherwise -take manual control of the adc in order to force them to dodge hooks they aren't paying attention to -somehow finish 6 utility items by 15 minutes even when the adc cockblocks their use of the relic shield -somehow be Thresh, Zilean, Morgana, and Janna at the same time, to save the adc from every situation they can possibly put themselves in -spawn hordes of enemy minions for the adc to farm -kill dragon in 2 hits so the adc doesn't get yelled at for farming instead of helping kill it -just generally skullfuck all the rules of the game in order to protect the adc from the person playing them

Half the adcs seem to expect this, might as well give it to them. dies of salt overdose

Edit: Since some people are taking this as anti-adc, I'll clarify that most adcs I get are a joy to work with, maybe about 20% are bad jokes like this. Yes I realize I said half a couple lines ago, shush. What I'm doing here is mocking people who perform badly and then expect their support to perform at a level beyond what's possible with the mechanics of game, just to compensate.

161 Comments

Luner HunterApr 8, 201564 votes

came expecting an adc to be raging, was glad to be wrong. :) but this is the kinda shit that is expected of supports :/

Heckin SupportApr 8, 201535 votes

Riot said that supports wouldn't be held liable to vision as harshly as they were back when they made trinkets. It's still horrible and supports are still scorned for not warding everything even though they always have 4/4 wards out all the time. Not to mentions your allies maybe use 3-4 wards a game while the support pumps out 25-35 per game. If people would just upgrade their trinkets... item 3361

IcyPepperApr 8, 201532 votes

You question buying sightstone, you get reported.

You question why your teammates don't upgrade their damn trinket, everyone loses their minds.

Ariel the CruelApr 8, 20154 votes

You question buying sightstone, you get reported.

But... Their jungler is AFK, Top doesn't have TP, Mid is 5 levels behind, and I have a limitless suicide babies to keep a look-out. I'd think you would rather have a face shield for every time you try to 2v1 them with 200 health.

{reported}

Spacesuit SpiffApr 8, 20151 votes

Zyra ?

I don't play mage supports much but it seems like you can get away just buying greens until level 9 in some situations. It's probably a case by case thing; if you're dominant enough to keep a pink ward up, for example, it's probably the better choice.

Lack of sweeping is unfortunate though, and yeah people will flip out if they notice.

Franco SanchezApr 8, 20155 votes

It's very typical of me when I'm playing Velkoz / support that I don't first-buy a SS. But it heavily depends on what kind of gold values I'm backing with, and who their jungle/mid are.

Most games I end up going with: item 3303 + item 2009 x2 + item 2004 x2 -> item 3098 -> item 3028 -> item 2049

That tends to change if I have enough gold to buy that SS on the first back. Especially if I can add one or two item 1004 . Otherwise I'll buy pinks when I have 100g after buying, or if we have a strong lead on the lane.

DeusVultApr 8, 20152 votes

When I play a mage support ( as in Annie Lux Velkoz ) I dont ever buy sightstone or upgrade my item 3303 . The GP10 doesnt upgrade and the extra money spent on its upgrades aren't really worth it, specifically because its active pales in comparison to item 3069 and item 3401 .

Instead, i buy a few item 2044 until i hit 9 and then I get item 3361 . frees up an item spot and is exceedingly cheap.

then again, I always upgrade my trinket at 9-10 an buy a item 2043 on first back to throw in one of our jungle openings.

Franco SanchezApr 8, 20154 votes

As I mentioned in a different point, the lack of Sweeper would suck. Also, 2 yellow trinket wards is not nearly enough ward coverage when you are playing support. I would sooner buy a Sightstone and upgrade the yellow trinket for pink wards.

I do agree with you on the spell thief upgrades though. I rarely finish it, and I only take Frost Fang for the on-hit gold and the cheap stats.

Franco SanchezApr 8, 20156 votes

I understand what you are going for, but I think the majority of times your team has a point if you don't get SS. The reasons being:

A good support will note you don't have it, and you can expect that you will get visits. Frequently.
There are a lot of assassins and tank junglers in the meta right now. Not having wards against either is inviting bad times. Especially when you have junglers like Sejuani/Zac/Amumu who would love nothing more than to double kill the bot-lane with their strong ults.
If you don't have a SS, you likely don't have a Sweeper. Which means you likely won't be able to enable your jungler/mid to gank your lane by denying vision.
You have to gamble with either being ganked from river, tri, or lane brush without good ward coverage.
Easy to deny your team vision of dragon, which could lose you the objective (including timers) or bait you into a bad fight.
Incredibly risky to clear opposing pink wards, as you likely don't have vision if they are nearby to punish you.

I do agree with the sentiment though. I would love it if more people bought (and upgraded) sweepers, and bought wards. Though even having people upgrade their yellow trinkets would go a long way.

IcyPepperApr 8, 20155 votes

By switching some of the words around, I could say the exact same thing about laners buying wards.

A good laner will note you don't have any, and you can expect that you will get jungler visits. Frequently.
There are a lot of assassins and tank junglers in the meta right now. Not having wards against either is inviting bad times. Especially when you have junglers like Sejuani/Zac/Amumu who would love nothing more than to snowball mid/top lane with their strong ults.
If you don't have buy wards, you likely don't have a Sweeper. Which means you likely won't be able to enable your jungler/friendlies to gank your lane by denying vision.
You have to gamble with either being ganked from river, tri, or lane brush without good ward coverage. (depends on your lane, even mid lane has six entry points, two of which are commonly warded)
Easy to deny your team vision of dragon/baron, which could lose you the objective (including timers) or bait you into a bad fight.
Incredibly risky to clear opposing pink wards, as you likely don't have vision if they are nearby to punish you.

I don't mind buying sightstone when I support, and I usually rush it first, but it'd be nice having options and the rest of the team buying wards. Had a ranked game where the Lux support and I (Cait adc) both bought wards so she bought damage first, allowing us to win lane with ease. Same amount of vision, we just bought wards ourselves.

But the sightstone is only three wards, max. My issue is not with the sightstone purchase, it's with the double standards that don't enforce laners to upgrade their trinket. Yes, the mid and top laner are generally not going to get sweepers, however, but it'd be really nice if they buy a ward or two pre-9 and then upgrade their trinket.

Franco SanchezApr 8, 20151 votes

I literally said the exact thing you mentioned here, at the end of my post.

I didn't specifically talk about other lanes, because I was responding to the idea of forgoing the SS as a support. I also didn't mention that if you are playing blue-side, you can forgo the tri-ward if your mid-laner has the presence of mind to ward by Raptors. Or if you are red-side, that exact same ward makes it a lot harder for blue-side mid to roam to bottom. It also will pop an enemy jungle's oracle from smiting Raptor. Not to mention giving your team information on where the enemy jungler is.

But yes, some of the points I made about bot-side ward coverage are very applicable to other roles/lanes. And I said I already agreed with the premise that laners/jungle have a very bad habit of not warding and/or not upgrading trinkets.

IcyPepperApr 8, 20152 votes

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just felt like exemplifying the point.

sighs

Still won't change the fact that some people will reinforce the sightstone meta, but won't buy wards. Ever. Nothing we can do except the occasional reminder, eh?

Franco SanchezApr 8, 20153 votes

Agreed. I wish people had a better understanding of vision control in general, myself included. Especially(!) regarding objectives. I don't need a ton of wards top-side if my team is pushing bot-side. But when everybody is literally running everywhere, it's impossible to ward for that. And then they foray into the enemy jungle for their raptors only to be caught in one of the most obvious wards in the entire game.

It drives me nuts when I'm playing Blitzcrank with an Ahri/Vi and I'm the only one on the team with a Sweeper + wards. Especially in mid-high gold. Those kills are damn near free if people put up vision and denied vision.

SmknWdlApr 8, 20156 votes

every lane needs to buy wards.... support buys the most, jungler buys the second most, mid buys the third most (has to ward both bushes), top buys the fourth most, and adc buys the least (not saying they shouldn't buy wards, but their main focus should be to use all of their available money on items. THEY SHOULD STILL UPGRADE TRINKETS THOUGH JESUS CHRIST HOW DO YOU NOT UPGRADE ITS LIKE THE MOST USEFUL THING IN THE GAME I WOULD UPGRADE A TRINKET OVER UPGRADING BOOTS THE GOLD EFFICIENCY IS AMAZING HOLY SHIT PEOPLE LOOK AT IT LOOK YOU GET WARDS FOR FREE HOW DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THIS YOU GET FREE WARDS PEOPLE)

Franco SanchezApr 8, 201518 votes

I recently had an ADC who was so worried about telling me how to play the game, that they couldn't CS properly. That's what I'll say, anyways. I was playing Leona, and they indicated for me to do the following.

Engage on the enemy Caitlynn, at level 1 (As Leona, who had started Q).
Engage on the enemy Caitlynn when there were about 15 minions pushing into us, and we were a level behind.
Engage on the full health Caitlynn, while my ADC was sitting at about 60% hp.

Anyways, it was definitely a game where I stuck around till 6 and roamed, much to the dismay of the all-chat warrior that was my ADC. As someone who's climbed primarily playing support, I understand this post all too well.

Spacesuit SpiffApr 8, 20155 votes

It's just adorable when they do that. Was just in a game today where I was Nautilus with Graves , went reasonably well until he got healbaited into flashing under tower level 3. So ofc the sensible thing for him to do is recite a whole mobafire guide at me like "max e first noob" (because you can start maxing something at level 3). Never gonna figure out what's goin on in their heads.

Franco SanchezApr 8, 20152 votes

Yep. I also love it when they decide that you aren't doing your job properly, so they are going to take it upon themselves to "make plays". The ADC that I was mentioning before was playing Tristana... The jungler would ping that he was coming in for a gank, and almost immediately our Trist would jump face first into the opposing bot-lane. The problem with that was, the jungler ping'd well ahead of the gank so that we were ready. I was holding CD's till he actually got close enough (he would ping when he was in the river bush, about 1/4 of the way from mid to bot). Trist's actions basically forced me to jump in to peel for her or die, putting all of my stuff on CD when our Lee was just about to pass the dragon pit. Not to mention the Trist getting thrashed and being unable to follow up on a gank when he did get there. So she basically single handedly ruined a potential gank, while simultaneously putting us even further behind than we already were. She repeated this process 3x.

It was great how quickly she threw me under the bus for being a terrible support. I rarely mute my ADC, but that was a special occasion.

freeformlineApr 8, 20156 votes

Out of curiosity, was this ADC playing Vayne?

Franco SanchezApr 8, 20153 votes

No. They were definitely playing Tristana. Which begs some other questions to me, like how she got heavily out-pushed by a Caitlynn.

IcyPepperApr 8, 201514 votes

-somehow finish 6 utility items by 15 minutes even when the adc cockblocks their use of the relic shield

THIS IS WHY I HATE PLAYING LEONA Leona item 3070

Or just take the damn coin instead. They want the cannon minion so bad? Well say goodbye to the little sustain we had.

Spacesuit SpiffApr 8, 201511 votes

try Nautilus and his half-hour aa animation @_@

IcyPepperApr 8, 20154 votes

Hey it finally hit.

Took awhile.

PartholonianApr 8, 20154 votes

{quoted}

try and his half-hour aa animation @_@

It just weighs him down.

Baron of BreadApr 8, 20159 votes

Hey, they should be part Lulu too, you need more "ADC doesn't die" buttons. That and a passive that makes it so they can't actually kill anything other than Baron and Dragon so the ADC can get the kills/cs (or better yet, that makes it so when they do something the ADC automatically gets all of the rewards).

Spacesuit SpiffApr 8, 20156 votes

haha correct I'll add a few more:

Lulu Kayle Bard Soraka Braum and a full build Poppy to end the game 1v5 while he farms

Ariel the CruelApr 8, 20156 votes

Bard ?

I'm pretty sure most of them hate bard at this point. Which is fair. Pay-back for all those worse-then-sh*t Kalista ult's.

Spacesuit SpiffApr 8, 20154 votes

I'm biased, I had a fantastic Bard today. Point being that he can ult the out-of-position-split-farming adc so the team can get there and protect him (and get reported for it naturally because Bard).

Kalista though... I was trying to learn Velkoz the week she came out... a disproportionate amount of tears were shed from a thing that only has one eye. You wouldn't think it's possible for her to just straight-up kill you with it, but then she jumps into 4 people before casting.

Champion SkinApr 8, 20156 votes

Oh shit I shouldn't be here... Support get over here and save me! XD

GaleWinUnleashedApr 8, 20157 votes

I love "ADC doesn't die" buttons. Janna and Lulu (my favorites) both have 3 of them, and it feels amazing.

PaeanAsklepiosApr 8, 20158 votes

I came for the title. I stayed for the beautifully witty information that followed.

Take my upvote. I main support, and this is absolutely insanely ridiculous. I was going to try to respond to individual points you've made, but that would ruin the experience.

This is the support thread that was meant to be.

KairyaApr 8, 20156 votes

As an ADC i just love to read these support-rage threads... Makes me feel all warm around the heart. Luckily I have a private supporter all for myself, and usually always play premade botlane with him. I wouldn't like to play with a supporter who starts a game with the thought " oh well my adc sucks anyways".

I think bot-lanes work well wenn both parts of the bot-lane can trust each other to do their job. Threads like these don't encourage teamplay, trust or anything else. They won't improve anyones gameplay.

To me most of the given examples seem to be a problem of lacking communication or simple mistakes, that just happen. I used to play a lot of support for a while and without a premade. I would always ask my adc even before minions had spawned, what kind of a player he is. Someone who just likes to farm and maybe poke a little? Or more of a " go all in/ likes to take a risk" type? Sometimes this question would turn out to be pointless, because the game would just proceed differently. But it would almost always open the lines for general communication between me and my adc.

ShogunaiApr 8, 20152 votes

Finally someone that truly understands the game an how bot lane actually works. I'm glad you found a duo bot partner because that makes a heck of a difference an you know what to expect. Great synergy!

PartholonianApr 8, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't like to play with a supporter who starts a game with the thought " oh well my adc sucks anyways".

I don't start with that thought, but sometimes I acquire it right around the time of first blood. If you know what I mean. (And maybe you don't, since you're in a static duo...)

I think bot-lanes work well wenn both parts of the bot-lane can trust each other to do their job. Threads like these don't encourage teamplay, trust or anything else. They won't improve anyones gameplay.

They might if adcs see them and start thinking "Yeah, I should stop doing that". But it's unlikely, that's true. I don't think that's really the point of these threads, they're mainly to blow off steam so that it isn't vented in game in a more personal and toxic way instead.

MonkeyDLuufyApr 8, 20156 votes

^ This all the way. The worst is when you're consistently warding the map, pinging for people to be careful here and there, get no thanks for keeping vision up or dying on behalf of your ADC so they dont lose their groove, as they are also worth more gold then you, and yet as SOON as my wards wear off im bashed for not warding like i should be....

My worst pet peeves are:

1.) The Stated Above^ 2.) When i NICELY ask my team, "hey guys lets get vision out there, everyone get a ward if you can." and i get the response, "That's not my job, it's yours. 3.) ADC is low and realistically should go back and I mention ill hold bot and they decided to stay regardless of my 50 pings, and they die. 4.) Using Leona's W Proc light dmg on minions and instantly bashed and flamed for ""pushing the wave away from my adc." or "Stealing their farm."

Come on guys If i really wanted to steal your farm i would make it a lot more obvious. If it wasn't for us Supports, you'd be in Team Builder for 20+ Minutes...lol amirite?

ShogunaiApr 8, 20151 votes

Lol, agreed 100%

mvargusApr 8, 20152 votes

I was in one game recently with a fairly new player (level 17). He was playing support Morgana to my Jinx and 3 times I had to tell him to back for health rather than stay in lane because I was afraid he'd get killed. I also had to ward the river myself a couple of times.

Now, this player is trying to learn support and is a very earnest individual who I truly enjoy playing with, but I have learned that the problems you talk about aren't specific to ADCs. I've seen it in every position. It depends on the player.

boundbydutyApr 8, 20155 votes

There are some good supports and some bad ones. I play both sup and adc so I will notice what adc/sup should have been doing.

I almost never tell the sup to put down ward unless they have one to put down (and we need one) Sames goes for adc as well.

there are some adc that just simply farm, doesn't harass, and runs away at any sign of trouble, will never help you when you are in trouble but expect you to help when they are in trouble. and they can't kill the enemy cause you didn't put the ward down (not because he doesn't have dmg)

there are sup's that will take your cs, randomly auto attack your cs (causing you to lose cs), doesn't buy ward/or use ward, runs away when their adc is trouble, doesn't exhaust, doesn't harass, sit in the bush and do nothing, can't land their skill shot or worse, won't use their skills at all (no it's not on c/d you never use it)

there are always going to be some different in player skill, but at least try to play like a team at botlane and help each other out.

SorasMemoriesApr 8, 20154 votes

only heads back to base when the adc approves
can summon the jungler whenever the adc demands it
can restore all of the adc's health
don't forget blitzcrank ♥

OdeszaApr 8, 20153 votes

Then when you do actually save them from dying from a mistake that was 100% their fault, and accidentally get the kill, that's your fault too -___-

FuzziestPickleApr 8, 20156 votes

Nami when you heal your adc when he's at 2 hits from dying and it bounces off and kills the other enemy

RisurinApr 8, 20152 votes

ah another anti-adc thread...

Radnar the boldApr 8, 201515 votes

{quoted}

ah another anti-adc thread...

wrong its a thread marking how adcs treat their supports like s/h/i/t

RisurinApr 8, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Radnar the bold,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=heeBltA7,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-04-08T05:16:42.712+0000)

wrong its a thread marking how adcs treat their supports like s/h/i/t

A.K.A. anti-adc thread. Not every ADCs does that, i'm not even sure the majority does that. it just assumption based on the experience of a few players at best...

League of PotatoApr 8, 20151 votes

Well, based on the fact that whenever I play support (which is what I mainly play) I will spend the entire game literally saving my adc's ass and I can only think of about 2 maybe 3 games where the adc actually thanked me out of a solid 30-40 games, Yes. I would say most adc's are douchebags without a doubt.

RisurinApr 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=League of Potato,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=heeBltA7,comment-id=0006000000010001,timestamp=2015-04-08T22:05:15.919+0000)

Well, based on the fact that whenever I play support (which is what I mainly play) I will spend the entire game literally saving my adc's ass and I can only think of about 2 maybe 3 games where the adc actually thanked me out of a solid 30-40 games, Yes. I would say most adc's are douchebags without a doubt.

I can understand you came to this conclusion, but i think you have to remember that still a very small sample of the actual sample of ADCs main. in fact there is no telling if you even did get one in 30-40, unless you checkd ? and even if they were, still too small of a sample to get a something down like "all adc are toxic" as a fact. And basically what i was saying is, there is already enough hate toward ADCs, no need to add to it.

League of PotatoApr 9, 20151 votes

You are jumping to the worst conclusion possible. I never said "all" adc's are toxic, but I did imply "most."

And, it is possible to know that low possible amount of "nice" adc's that I've played with because I legitimately could only think of maybe 3 (implying less than 3 since I know you'll just assume I meant 50), compared to not even knowing out of the total amount of games. These instances were so rare that I could actually remember them as distinctly nice memories.

Also, not adding to the hate, just giving further evidence behind it, you know, like a reason as to why we are voicing our opinions on the matter. Because it's a problem, that should be fixed, because there's no reason anyone should have to put up with that kind of behavior towards them every single game, or on a consistent basis. There's absolutely no reason to yell at your support (or anyone) for any of the following:

you having low cs because you can't last hit properly
you ending with a 1/5/0 score proclaiming to all chat that you "couldn't carry these noobs"
you bitching for someone other than you getting a kill, or in other words; a KS rager
bitching at your support for leaving you to die, after you ignore every single back ping, along with their wards
not using/upgrading your fucking trinket. It's literally a free ward. Absolutely no reason as to not use it, let alone equip the fucking thing
Again. You can actually ward, hell you can buy a ward if you have the extra gold.
you can stop farming after 18/full build, the support does need to obtain gold sooner or later.
No explanation needed:
Trying to teach the support how to play support without even giving them the chance to show you that they know what they're doing
Bitching about why there aren't any wards deep in the enemy jungle; Common sense tells me multiple things.
1. you can't get out of base without dying, how in the fuck would the support be able to do it?
1. you can ward too
1. already placed 3 wards (max limit)
1. refer to number 2
calling them a feeder and asking in all chat for a report just because they died. no one can have a perfect game, every game. Even the pros make mistakes/have off games. We're human, we're not perfect.
yelling at anyone for missing a skill shot. There's such a thing as dodging. You won't hit every skill shot, neither will we.

That's just naming a few off the top of my head. The list goes on. This is the shit that supports have to deal with just about every game. That is completely ridiculous. The laning phase goes badly, who gets blamed? That's right the support. Not you. And what do you when this happens? You claim that the support was intentionally feeding and should be reported. Do you wanna know the amount of times I've been reported for "feeding" even with a usual ending score of around 1/maybe 5/12? I don't know the exact amount of times, but I've gotten enough fucking warnings about that shit. I know you don't like being hated on just for being an adc main, but I can guarantee you don't go through even half as much bullshit as supports do. Anything bad that happens in bot lane is the supports fault according to most of the adcs I've had the displeasure of dealing with. Now I may not be the best support of all time, but I know damn sure you're not the best adc either, so there's really no reason to even try to bring that argument up.

Believe it or not, sometimes a match up will just completely counter the other. One lane will have an obvious advantage or disadvantage. If you're too ignorant to acknowledge that fact, you probably do a lot of the things on the list above.

Spacesuit SpiffApr 9, 20152 votes

Agree with all this, so I'll share a little optimism: someone who mains adc and took the time to learn the role really well, usually won't do any of those things. They also don't usually exist in low elo, just like all the people who learned their roles in depth. No offense to low elo, it's just easy to climb off that.

When I see people acting like this in plat/diam, I hit tab and 9/10 times they're last pick. In other words, it's not their main role so they're playing at the same level as the standard toxic silver adc. They're uncomfortable in the role and instead of admitting that, they expect their support to be a god beyond what's possible in the game and carry them. Actual confident adc mains don't do this.

IcyPepperApr 8, 20155 votes

ah another lightly poking fun at adc thread because people know how to take jokes

Fixed!

RisurinApr 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Fixed!

I guess the humour would be easier to understand, if we didnt already have about every other thread also sharing the topic of "how adc is toxic". My question now is at which point its just "poking fun" and not just another trash-talk thread against ADCs ?

IcyPepperApr 8, 20155 votes

Well I think everyone knows at this point that not all adcs are like this, just the bad ones to poke fun at. :P

I hear you, man. Sure, lower tiers the adc mains are toxic and think supports are warding slaves, but that's not the case higher up. Besides, every lane and role gets poked fun at every once in awhile. Not even supports get a free pass from it from time to time. Here, I'll even make a joke out of every lane for you real quick so we don't leave anyone out:

Mid: Good luck getting this in ranked, considering everyone and their mother mains it. Jungle: I'm going to gank your lane prematurely, tax an entire minion wave, and farm wolves while the enemy team is taking Baron. Top: Teamfights? You mean free farm top while everyone's mid? What do you mean teleport isn't for farming faster? Adc: I am a god and all my mistakes are actually the support's. Support: I have a superiority complex because I'm the only one who has map awareness. Also I'm going mid lane just as the enemy jungler ganks bot. Don't worry, Vayne can 1v3 at level 4 against Graves and Leona and Sejuani.