Tristana's passive doesn't work with her thematic.

Bârd·Mar 16, 2018·36 votes·1,693 views

It's fairly obvious what Tristana's theme is meant to be; she's our "Reckless Soldier".

She jumps into the fray, blows somebody up, and keeps going until either she dies or everybody else does.

If Katarina were an ADC, she'd be Tristana.

There's just one thing that doesn't mesh.

Draw a Bead allows Tristana to play safer, which the champion herself likely wouldn't appreciate.

Buster Shot gives her a lot of self peel, which I'm personally not a fan of, but it's so useful for bursting people down in the midgame that I can accept it. There are other potential ults that could fit the character better, but this one will do.

Rocket Jump gives her a good escape, and that's fine. She's reckless, but not suicidal. Besides, she uses it aggressively a lot, which offsets its use as an escape.

Most of her kit is fine, but I just wish she got a new passive that made her feel a bit more... risky.

39 Comments

NymzoMar 16, 201811 votes

And tell me, how do you make an ADC that needs to jump in good, when the fight isn't immediately in their favor?

The strength of ADC is their range, making one having to ''jump in'' IS the equivalent of death. I know it's every melee's wet dream to have an adc at melee range but it would never work in reality, especially not against a good team.

Velzard of KozMar 16, 20187 votes

Kai'Sa has the all-in playstyle and short range he probably wants to Tristana. Vayne has limited range of effect unless she is just aa-ing.

5000000000000000Mar 16, 20185 votes

There's also Corki and Lucian, although Lucian isn't in a great spot right now.

ZepperMar 17, 20181 votes

And Sivir

NymzoMar 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ij3YmwtL,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-03-16T16:53:27.545+0000)

Kai'Sa has the all-in playstyle and short range he probably wants to Tristana.

It's too early for me to judge Kai'sa but for what I've seen, she's better at following at caughing someone than teamfighting.

Vayne has limited range of effect unless she is just aa-ing.

Having limited range is not the same thing as ''going in.'' Most vayne players will still kite at the backline, only a few extremely good or very fed will try to ''1 vs 5".

DracosKasuMar 16, 20181 votes

I see good sucess with Kai’sa in the jungle but generally fall down because of the lack of CC and engage in the team.

saltranMar 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

And tell me, how do you make an ADC that needs to jump in good, when the fight isn't immediately in their favor?

The strength of ADC is their range, making one having to ''jump in'' IS the equivalent of death. I know it's every melee's wet dream to have an adc at melee range but it would never work in reality, especially not against a good team.

That's a good point, I'm playing Tristana now and sure she can jump in but only when the squirmish/teamfight is almost over, if I jump before I'm just killing myself for no reason.

Painted CeltMar 16, 20183 votes

{quoted}

And tell me, how do you make an ADC that needs to jump in good, when the fight isn't immediately in their favor?

The strength of ADC is their range, making one having to ''jump in'' IS the equivalent of death. I know it's every melee's wet dream to have an adc at melee range but it would never work in reality, especially not against a good team.

I don't really follow this argument, because the same could be said of the OP's chosen comparison, Katarina.

Katarina "The strength of assassins is their mobility, making one having to ''suppress themselves'' IS the equivalent of death. I know it's every melee's wet dream to have an assassin suppress themselves at melee range but it would never work in reality, especially not against a good team."

NymzoMar 16, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Painted Celt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ij3YmwtL,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2018-03-16T19:18:54.572+0000)

I don't really follow this argument, because the same could be said of the OP's chosen comparison, Katarina.

"The strength of assassins is their mobility, making one having to ''suppress themselves'' IS the equivalent of death. I know it's every melee's wet dream to have an assassin suppress themselves at melee range but it would never work in reality, especially not against a good team."

First of all, modifying my own words for the katarina example doesn't make sense, especially for the wet dream part almost no one complaints about assassins being too mobile.

Second, there is a big difference in Katarina vs Tristana's thematic. While yes Katarina stands still, the reason she does that is to unleash a deadly attack. Sure, good players can interrupt it but it MAKES SENSES that she has to stand still. Not only that but it offers burst and a way to escape as a reward if you did it correctly.

But an adc that jump in when the fight isn't in their favor? Unless they would Ornn her belong belief, there's absolutely no way you will ever be able to get away from this for free, let along escape and reposition from the backline.

ChaddyFantomeMar 17, 20181 votes

Second, there is a big difference in Katarina vs Tristana's thematic. While yes Katarina stands still, the reason she does that is to unleash a deadly attack. Sure, good players can interrupt it but it MAKES SENSES that she has to stand still. Not only that but it offers burst and a way to escape as a reward if you did it correctly.

You mean like tristanna's E + Reset?

NymzoMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You mean like tristanna's E + Reset?

You mean about the burst and escape part? To be honest, it is a delayed burst that relies on mutiple autos.

Also, if Tristana really was the reckless adc that she is suppose to be. It would be by far the worst part of her kit, there's no way you would be able to fully proc it unless the enemy team is terrible or unfed. Let alone kill someone and reset.

saltranMar 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Painted Celt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ij3YmwtL,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2018-03-16T19:18:54.572+0000)

I don't really follow this argument, because the same could be said of the OP's chosen comparison, Katarina.

"The strength of assassins is their mobility, making one having to ''suppress themselves'' IS the equivalent of death. I know it's every melee's wet dream to have an assassin suppress themselves at melee range but it would never work in reality, especially not against a good team."

Wtf, are you really comparing Katarina to an adc????

ChaddyFantomeMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

And tell me, how do you make an ADC that needs to jump in good, when the fight isn't immediately in their favor?

The strength of ADC is their range, making one having to ''jump in'' IS the equivalent of death. I know it's every melee's wet dream to have an adc at melee range but it would never work in reality, especially not against a good team.

Lucian Vayne ?

notice how they all share the commonality of being bursty/duelists as well.

NymzoMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

?

notice how they all share the commonality of being bursty/duelists as well.

But they don't go in, they kite.

Going in is the equivalent of dashing/tumbling toward their frontline.

ChaddyFantomeMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But they don't go in, they kite.

Going in is the equivalent of dashing/tumbling toward their frontline.

which they do. they do both. No clue why you are pretending they don't.

hhaavviikkMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

And tell me, how do you make an ADC that needs to jump in good, when the fight isn't immediately in their favor?

The strength of ADC is their range, making one having to ''jump in'' IS the equivalent of death. I know it's every melee's wet dream to have an adc at melee range but it would never work in reality, especially not against a good team.

unless you're graves in which case having him in melee range is a nightmare

BlåbæretMar 17, 20184 votes

Here we go again. People who think every champ needs a rework because x or y doesn't adhere to their opinion of "thematic". Can you just stop? This is a PvP game; gameplay mechanics come before lore every single time.

SaiannaMar 16, 20183 votes

If you think about it a good chunk of champions have passives that miss with their themes

Pika FoxMar 16, 20183 votes

Her passive is what allows her to even work, transitioning from early game risky burst to a standard ADC later in the game, sacrificing midgame power.

Kats PajamasMar 16, 20183 votes

the description is talking about rocket jump, not her passive. Champions all have 4 moves and a Passive btw,

BârdMar 16, 20183 votes

...ok?

Kats PajamasMar 16, 20183 votes

{quoted}

...ok?

You call Rocket Jump her escape. The idea of her being reckless is based around Rocket Jump resets. Solely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPFWx4MXSuY

BârdMar 17, 20183 votes

...yeah.

I called it her escape because, well, it's her escape.

Fizz's troll pole is both his escape and a big source of offense. Rocket Jump is the same.

You're just wording everything so poorly that I can't really tell what you're even saying.

Rathar DashingMar 16, 20182 votes

Completely disagree. Tristana's theme is safety, and her passive fits in exactly with that. Her W is a great tool to start fights, but also ensures that once she gets the kill (or even pop her bomb), she can get out safely. Her E is a nice tool to deter people from fighting her in lane lest they be blown up. Her ult is the ultimate self peel, no pun intended, knocking back any threat a safe distance while also being able to finish people off who would otherwise out-dps her. Her passive fits perfectly into this theme.

DMate19Mar 16, 201823 votes

Did you ignore the entire post? The guy is arguing that the passive is making her kit passive, while her lore suggests she should be a hyper aggressive carry. Saying "yeah, but her kit support she passive gameplay" is exactly the issue

Rathar DashingMar 16, 20184 votes

I didn't ignore the entire post, I simply have a different opinion about her thematic. I think being a safe, "untouchable" gunner fits in with her lore. I don't think there's any issue with a champ having this theme.

You might think reckless aggression fits in better, but that's just your opinion.

BârdMar 16, 20188 votes

When I see somebody using ballistics for mobility, the last thing I think of them is "oh that person seems careful".

Rathar DashingMar 16, 20182 votes

Well, I never meant "careful" per se, just that she was highly capable of keeping herself at a safe distance from enemies.

Maybe it's just different because I use Dragon Trainer Tris :P

BooleansMar 16, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ij3YmwtL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-16T13:42:00.048+0000)

Completely disagree. Tristana's theme is safety, and her passive fits in exactly with that. Her W is a great tool to start fights, but also ensures that once she gets the kill (or even pop her bomb), she can get out safely. Her E is a nice tool to deter people from fighting her in lane lest they be blown up. Her ult is the ultimate self peel, no pun intended, knocking back any threat a safe distance while also being able to finish people off who would otherwise out-dps her. Her passive fits perfectly into this theme.

The theme of a champion isn't necessarily tied to their gameplay. In fact, theme more often refers to their aesthetics, lore and personality. Have you ever heard of the phrase "living up to their fantasy?" That statement refers to whether the character's gameplay/mechanics matches their theme.

afmghostMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The theme of a champion isn't necessarily tied to their gameplay. In fact, theme more often refers to their aesthetics, lore and personality. Have you ever heard of the phrase "living up to their fantasy?" That statement refers to whether the character's gameplay/mechanics matches their theme.

I don't know, some champions have kits that relate to their personalities. Jinx is about causing chaos everywhere she goes, considering it fun. Sure enough, her gameplay is about stacking her minigun's passive and shooting the enemy until it dies, and getting excited afterwards (which gives a brief yet powerful buff). Caitlyn, on the other hand, is both a cop and a sniper. Her kit is about proper planning and being careful. You need to set your traps in the right spot so you can get a headshot crit on your opponent when they step on it. Your ultimate also needs to be used carefully, as a healthy enemy can just step in the way of the shot. Let's look at Nocturne. His main combo involves his ultimate. You won't be able to see him coming until he hits you (all the while your allies are worried that he's coming for them). Then he uses his Q and E to chase you and terrify you, leaving you helpless as he continues attacking. Should you at any point during this process try to use an ability against him, he will use his W to block it, adding to the hopelessness you feel as he rips you to pieces.

Granted, these are three good examples. Some may not fit well but others do.

Painted CeltMar 16, 20182 votes

I have been thinking the same thing ever since Tristana had her mini-VGU and has been so frequently meta lately. I think she should have her passive changed to just rearrange something else in her kit and she should be given an average marksmen attack range of 550. It would be a very small buff early game from 525 -> 550 and would be a nerf midgame-lategame. Her new passive could be something like "auto-attacking champions reduces Tristana's cooldowns, ramps up the AOE of her abilities, and causes her explosive charges to detonate early". That passive could replace her leap reset and could shorten the amount of text needed on her E ability description. Q and R could get base cooldown nerfs so that it doesn't end up being a net buff.

I think Tristana should be the bursty AOE marksman.

FilDaFunkMar 17, 20182 votes

I like how tristana's identity changed from (i) No AD ratios on any abilities, but had self peel and steroid to scale well

(ii) Burst ADC strongest when she all-ins.

Currently, she has both of these properties which should not be on the same champion.

HayaishiMar 17, 20182 votes

When trist of all champions has more range that champions who are meant to excel at long range like Varus, Ashe, Cait you just know there's a design problem.

Gamer GalladeMar 17, 20182 votes

I have been saying to rework her passive and q because it doesn't fit with her character.

That is the best way to balance her because she's a problem of being overly safe.

Mast3rShakeMar 18, 20181 votes

Yeah, let's balance her 48% win rate and 11th on the ranking of top adc's. She is clearly waaayyyyy too strong. /sarcasm

Gamer GalladeMar 18, 20181 votes

Sure be sarcastic all you want but changes like those can bring her in a better spot, it will make her stronger but it will make her healthier in the long term in a balance perspective